I like that standard.by this logic, a trail has to be steep to be fun?
2010 Giant Glory with 13.6" BB and 63 deg. HA
- Thread starter northernstyle
- Start date
I sure as hell don't like pedaling through rockgardens on a flat trail with my downhill bike. Do you?by this logic, a trail has to be steep to be fun?
We need proper geo. Maybe Giant focused on the intermediate rider. Everybody who's been pushing it on a downhill bike for a couple of years knows that geometry is CRITICAL.
You can have crap suspension, but you can't push it with passive geometry. When the Sunday was released with it's 65" headangle, wc-racers were riding around 63° headangle. Market is maybe 5 years behind.
You can have crap suspension, but you can't push it with passive geometry. When the Sunday was released with it's 65" headangle, wc-racers were riding around 63° headangle. Market is maybe 5 years behind.
agreed.
Welcome to the board Sir, and get ready.
I brought this up in another thread, but anyone know what the HA of a V-10 is? It's 67 degrees--a full degree and a half steeper than the Glory. And while a V-10 does require more sag than an 8-inch bike (effectively slackening the HA slightly more when the bike is laden,) the Driver 8, which runs the same travel as a Glory, is at 66.5--still a full degree above the Glory.
You don't even want to know the V-10's BB height: 14.8! (The Driver comes in at 14.6.)
So next time you're at a World Cup, ask Peaty or Minnaar how they go so fast on a "hopped-up XC rig."
You don't even want to know the V-10's BB height: 14.8! (The Driver comes in at 14.6.)
So next time you're at a World Cup, ask Peaty or Minnaar how they go so fast on a "hopped-up XC rig."
headset cups,shorter shocks and all that is way too much hassle. offset holes in the shock bushings is where its at. mate got his turner 1 inch lower and slightly(not sure what difference was) slacker by making custom bushings and offsetting the hole as far back as possible. if they break, simply make more.i just chose to drill my turner instead. 2c
Cool idea, but then the shock is prone to pivoting around either of two possible centres - centre of the DU bush or the actual shock pin... not the best setup IMO.
Just fitted some of the Works Components -2 cups to my girlfriends Socom.
It actually looks like a DH bike now! With the angle finder its around 64.6 degrees. BB has dropped a small amount to just under 14" (tyres dependant) and a slighty longer wheelbase.
The front of the bike has dropped a fair amount too, from the CK 1.5" headset and its enormous stack height to an almost flush one.
They were relatively easy to fit and line up with the instructions, and absolute beast to get in though - talk about a tight fit! The headset press couldn't hack the pace after about 50% insertion. The persuader had to come out to finish the job...
Riding on it all weekend so will see how it feels.
It actually looks like a DH bike now! With the angle finder its around 64.6 degrees. BB has dropped a small amount to just under 14" (tyres dependant) and a slighty longer wheelbase.
The front of the bike has dropped a fair amount too, from the CK 1.5" headset and its enormous stack height to an almost flush one.
They were relatively easy to fit and line up with the instructions, and absolute beast to get in though - talk about a tight fit! The headset press couldn't hack the pace after about 50% insertion. The persuader had to come out to finish the job...
Riding on it all weekend so will see how it feels.
do these cups work on 08 glorys?
The V10 looks weird on paper, and it is weird in some ways, but it is designed to run 4" of sag, so it is actually a very low and pretty slack bike.I brought this up in another thread, but anyone know what the HA of a V-10 is? It's 67 degrees--a full degree and a half steeper than the Glory. And while a V-10 does require more sag than an 8-inch bike (effectively slackening the HA slightly more when the bike is laden,) the Driver 8, which runs the same travel as a Glory, is at 66.5--still a full degree above the Glory.
You don't even want to know the V-10's BB height: 14.8! (The Driver comes in at 14.6.)
So next time you're at a World Cup, ask Peaty or Minnaar how they go so fast on a "hopped-up XC rig."
not sure, but i can find out for you.
Which reminds me, it's about time DH bike manufacturers started doing two things; 1. Getting their listed geo numbers CORRECT 2. Providing HA, BB, and WB numbers for both static and sagged-in positions.
For a dh track? Hell yeah.by this logic, a trail has to be steep to be fun?
Actualy the sag on the v10 is big but at 67 static ha it is still a steep bike. Though the wc riders argument is as stupid as it goes as they'd outrace almost anyone on this forums on a beat up hardtail. Also if all the raging rumors about new sc dh bike are true it won't be steep for long
Agreed. Bike manufacturers definitely need to start listing more numbers as the consumer is becoming a lot more knowledgable (or think they are?) and more demanding of their equipment. Reach and Stack also should be listed on at least every DH bike.
The Driver 8 is better compared to bikes like the Demo 7, and Faith then DH bikes. While you can 'race' on all three, they are meant more for freeride than dhI brought this up in another thread, but anyone know what the HA of a V-10 is? It's 67 degrees--a full degree and a half steeper than the Glory. And while a V-10 does require more sag than an 8-inch bike (effectively slackening the HA slightly more when the bike is laden,) the Driver 8, which runs the same travel as a Glory, is at 66.5--still a full degree above the Glory.
You don't even want to know the V-10's BB height: 14.8! (The Driver comes in at 14.6.)
So next time you're at a World Cup, ask Peaty or Minnaar how they go so fast on a "hopped-up XC rig."
Funny--I don't remember comparing any of us to Greg Minnaar or Steve Peat.
The actual point was that they need to beat Sam Hill and Mick Hannah while riding their V-10s, and that they do so fairly often...steeper HA and all.
The SC guys would be competitive on anything, but it's still worth noting that the V-10 is a very competitive race bike that has odd numbers on paper. Maybe the same is true of the Glory...maybe it isn't.
But in either case, the only way to find out is to take it for a spin. Fretting over numbers on a geo sheet will only take you so far.
Well Gracia had great results on a crappy Gemini, does that mean that it's a good bike?
Not necessarily. But would you not agree that the V-10 is a good bike? It's been competitive under lots of different riders.
The Glory has a quickly rising leverage rate in the last part of it's travel due to the angle between the shock link and the shock getting lower and lower... with a shorter shock you'll get to the point where the leverage ratio increases VERY quickly, and the only way to deal with it is a longer bottom out bumper, which is probably what Elka did to compensate. Also, you'll be starting the stroke at a lower leverage ratio than the bike was designed with, cutting out that first bit of soft, plush travel. Then there's the axle path that gets shifted closer to the point where it stops going rearward...
Anyway, since the angled headset cups are available, why short-shock this bike? You're making some compromises to achieve the change in geo that the headset cups don't require...
Anyway, since the angled headset cups are available, why short-shock this bike? You're making some compromises to achieve the change in geo that the headset cups don't require...
I don't think you can use the angled headset cups because giant specced a stupid tapered headtube. Tapered sucks.
Nope. Some ppl like it but I don't - both the susp and the geo. Not a fan of SC marketing bs either.
Dropmachine - tapered angled reducers are in the works for the 2010 glory. Prolly they'll also fit the old ones.
Tapered angle reducers? Really? Thats pretty neat. I can't picture how they'd work though...where would all the stuff fit up top?
Fair enough. Still, I think the V-10 has proven itself as a race bike in general. And the new Glory may do so too. I'll take one for a spin if I get the chance.
Well so do I but the headset up guys announced them here some time ago (the us shop, not the k9. Can't remember the name). So they must be onto something.
I'd guess the lower cup is offset and the top cup is still centered, just at a slight angle. It probably only works with 1 1/8" steerers and not tapered ones.
Also, tapered rocks, both my bikes have it, so it must be the shiz
Offset cups in a 1-1/8 tube (tapered or not) sounds like a REALLY fast way to ruin your headtube/headset.
In response to the issues / Q's:
- Dropmachine your right, there is no room: The bearing no longer fits inside the headtube for the upper cup - in order for it to be offset it is packaged in a similar way to a 'standard' headset.
Upper cup is on left of picture:
will be available in a few weeks or so - were just tidying a few things up for the production run.
Cheers Rick
- Dropmachine your right, there is no room: The bearing no longer fits inside the headtube for the upper cup - in order for it to be offset it is packaged in a similar way to a 'standard' headset.
Upper cup is on left of picture:
This would be the case if the bearings were just offset; the bearings are offset and and at an angle - the offset calculated by headtube length. There is no issue with bearing longevity etc - they run as normal.
will be available in a few weeks or so - were just tidying a few things up for the production run.
Cheers
Rick
Last edited:
So then it makes it taller...and adds a bit of weight, albeit a tiny amount likely. So once again, Tapered sucks for DH bikes, 1.5 all the way or 1 1/8th. Gotcha.
Stupid bike industry.
Stupid bike industry.
I bought a 40 crown for like 20.00 last fall at Plattekill. At the time I felt it was kind of stupid. Now i feel like a genius as I can switch out with my current glory complete 40 crown. I am ordering a headset as soon as they are ready.
for months now, every Glory thread on every forum has mentioned your headset solution. therefore i predict you'll sell millions of them.\
several credible sources have measured a 64.5 HA on their glory's (giant specs are usually unrelated to reality, so that's no surprise) so a 63 HA w/ the offset headset should be slack enough for anyone.
several credible sources have measured a 64.5 HA on their glory's (giant specs are usually unrelated to reality, so that's no surprise) so a 63 HA w/ the offset headset should be slack enough for anyone.
Last edited:
Man, I'd love to see these numbers for each bike, but add in things like adjustable head tube inserts, multiple shock mounts and "flip chips" manufacturers would have 5 page geometry charts. Putting together my 2010 DH Bike geometry chart was more challenging than expected, because of all these factors. Heck, I'd be happy with accurate bb heights from each manufacturer, which in itself is hard to measure with no "standard" tire size used when measuring bb height.
I have a V10 and couldn't go any lower as I already graze my bash guard regularly. A note though, the 3rd gen frame is designed to run closer to 3" sag. That's why they feel snappier than the older versions.
In most cases a2c height is given with the geometry(pretty standard item across the board)..
But yeah some manufacturers atleast give the tire size with BB height, maybe not the what tire which is would be even more helpful..
This is the same thread where you're telling people their geometry mods are pointless and won't make them any faster...? It'll still be shorter stack than full 1 1/8th anyway, and I doubt you could actually make that angled reducer work with a standard 1 1/8th either.
I never said geo mods are pointless, not at all. Sorry if that was how it came across.
What I intended to get across was two-fold.
First, that people concentrate far too much on numbers on paper, rather then seeing the reality first (IE, making a bunch of changes before trying the bike stock), although thats not necessarily applicable to the OP, since I believe he rode the bike a bit first, then changed things.
Second, that a lot of people would make changes based on what they read on the internet, rather then trying things for themselves and finding out funny things, like a 64 HA isn't quite so useful when high speeds aren't that high, and more turning is involved. Just because somebody on the interwebbes says you need a 64 HA, doesn't mean its applicable to where YOU might be. SO, I wondered aloud how many people go and make these changes to their bikes without realizing that the stock bike angles may actually make more sense.
There are of course places where changing the angle slightly can be beneficial, I'm not debating that. Of course, theres also the argument that people should just shutup and ride, and realize that its not that 1 degree thats keeping them from being national champ.
I still say doing a full 1.5 HA on DH bikes is the way to go regardless of making any geo changes. At least then you have the option, and can still keep weight and bar height low. The miniscule amount of weight saved by going tapered seems paltry compared to the options it would give riders that want to change stuff around, know what I mean?
What I intended to get across was two-fold.
First, that people concentrate far too much on numbers on paper, rather then seeing the reality first (IE, making a bunch of changes before trying the bike stock), although thats not necessarily applicable to the OP, since I believe he rode the bike a bit first, then changed things.
Second, that a lot of people would make changes based on what they read on the internet, rather then trying things for themselves and finding out funny things, like a 64 HA isn't quite so useful when high speeds aren't that high, and more turning is involved. Just because somebody on the interwebbes says you need a 64 HA, doesn't mean its applicable to where YOU might be. SO, I wondered aloud how many people go and make these changes to their bikes without realizing that the stock bike angles may actually make more sense.
There are of course places where changing the angle slightly can be beneficial, I'm not debating that. Of course, theres also the argument that people should just shutup and ride, and realize that its not that 1 degree thats keeping them from being national champ.
I still say doing a full 1.5 HA on DH bikes is the way to go regardless of making any geo changes. At least then you have the option, and can still keep weight and bar height low. The miniscule amount of weight saved by going tapered seems paltry compared to the options it would give riders that want to change stuff around, know what I mean?
It will hapen on almost any bike. Adjusting to a new lower one will take time but it's not rocket science.