Split Pivot existence?

Lelandjt said:

If you go to the Split Pivot site it doesn't look updated since 2007. It doesn't specifically mention any companies planning on using it. It does state "patent pending". So did DW and Trek come to an agreement whereby ABP marches on and Split Pivot went away or is DW waiting on the patent to be awarded so he can start licensing the design and charging Trek? I did notice that the position of the chainstays and seatstays at the pivot are reversed between ABP & Split Pivot.

Click to expand...

Sorry man, that site is getting a major update real soon! Tell my man Kevin to get his act together and get that thing done! (along with the new dw-link site)

What I worked on 1.5 years ago, people are just starting to see now. What I am working on now, riders will see in a year or so. Let me tell you guys, I've been doing a LOT of Split Pivot work over the last year and a half.

Honestly, I probably could have pushed harder on Split Pivot between 2006 and 2009, but I was completely consumed with rebuilding e*thirteen from the ground up. Everything got an overhaul with e*thirteen then. We took on a lot more of our own production in-house, then we completely revamped the back end of the business, and after that I redesigned the entire chain retention product line (that took a whole year), new logos and branding for the company, and a new factory, office, and warehouse to boot. It was just a major time commitment, but I am really glad that I did it. Something had to take a back seat, and unfortunately, that was Split Pivot design work.

That was then though, and this is now. From a patent perspective, the only thing that I'm willing to say is that in my experience, it could not be going better. Things have happened so smoothly and quickly, it's been incredible. (compared to other portfolios that I've dealt with)

You won't have to keep your eyes peeled at all, there are some good things coming down the pipe, I am so stoked about some of the bikes that my Split Pivot family is going to have out there.

Sorry for the lack of infos on the progress, I promise that it will get better in the future!

bradflyn said:

Since this design was patented in 1890, it is more than 17 years later so anyone can use it now for free and not stealing. I do not think anyone has to agree with anyone like any other single pivot design. This is probably why so many companies are using it whether they work with DW or Trek or figure out their own style of single pivot locations.

It is a sweet system but already very old.

Click to expand...

I think that you and I discussed this exact patent in relation to Split Pivot about a year ago, right?

The Becker design is VERY different than the Split Pivot. For starters, it's a URT (Unified Rear Triangle). It also uses an extension spring without a damper to "suspend" the bike. That doesn't really matter though. Of course this was a reference that we presented in the Split Pivot patent prosecution, and in the eyes the patent office, the Split Pivot design is patentable over this reference.

Yay!

bradflyn said:

Sweet, now that anyone can use this design it looks like eveyone might try one. This looks to be an interest summer of sightings.

Click to expand...

Definitely not "anyone" can use the design, just specific partners, of which there are six.

Spooky and Seven Cycles both have announced publicly already, you'll hear a lot more come Summer and Eurobike. There are definitely prototypes out there, but the people riding them have done a great job keeping things quiet.. Heck there was a crazy looking prototype Split Pivot DH bike being ridden all last summer, Whistler and all, and that was kept off the radar. (somehow, I have no idea how.)

Lots of work, but fun work.

TheInedibleHulk said:

As I heard it DW and Trek came to an agreement in which Trek would steal the design from DW and pay him nothing in return for him going and f-ing himself because he doesn't have a team of lawyers on retainer and what's he going to do about it. I could be misinformed, just what I heard on the grapevine.

Click to expand...

I don't know whether I should be laughing or crying. or laughing nervously?

dw said:

I don't know whether I should be laughing or crying. or laughing nervously?

Click to expand...

feel free to laugh maniacally too.


Also, please keep up the good work.

jonKranked said:

feel free to laugh maniacally too.


Also, please keep up the good work.

Click to expand...

I can do that

dw said:

I can do that

Click to expand...

oh and my lg1 bearings are working just fine

dw said:

I don't know whether I should be laughing or crying. or laughing nervously?

Click to expand...

I hoped you would get a kick out of that

dw said:

I think that you and I discussed this exact patent in relation to Split Pivot about a year ago, right?

Yay!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was the one you challanged to read your file wrapper. The non final recjection notice the patent office sent you was interesting.

Yes hugo shows a urt but teaches a split pivot rear. Other common single pivots teach anti squat and other stuff. How are you doing on tony ellsworths 2002 pivot that shows a split pivot rear because he was in a hurry to show separate axle and pivot locations in the rear? what about Nicolai's Gboxx bike that shows exactly your patent also for rocker and instant center calculations?

I think you probably have the best chance to dial in all these old ideas so it is nice to see you desiging this for all.

bradflyn said:

Yeah, I was the one you challanged to read your file wrapper. The non final recjection notice the patent office sent you was interesting.

Yes hugo shows a urt but teaches a split pivot rear. Other common single pivots teach anti squat and other stuff. How are you doing on tony ellsworths 2002 pivot that shows a split pivot rear because he was in a hurry to show separate axle and pivot locations in the rear? what about Nicolai's Gboxx bike that shows exactly your patent also for rocker and instant center calculations?

I think you probably have the best chance to dial in all these old ideas so it is nice to see you desiging this for all.

Click to expand...

Every single patent that' I've ever seen gets some sort of non-final rejections, that's how they examine the patent application. Have you checked out the status recently? I see that 7 out of your 10 posts on Ridemonkey are about the Split Pivot design so I know that you are interested!

I try not to do anything new at all and just copy as much stuff as possible with as little effort as possible.

Someone wise once said "there is nothing new under the sun". No matter what you do, you're going to be able find someone else who did something roughly similar. If you can build a better mousetrap and get your name on it and make some bucks, there's no reason you shouldn't just because you didn't invent the wheel. The truth is there are only so many ways to arrange a lever, a wheel, and a spring.

Perhaps there is one thing new under the sun...



If I hadn't ridden it I still wouldn't believe that swingarm would move.

dw said:

Click to expand...

I doubt you copied anything, just a small oversight? I am sure you are probably the best at tuning this system.

but what is different than the original Nicolai gboxx?

this is an ancient document Nicolai gave out when generating interest in the gboxx so this is what started my interest way back when I started asking only split pivot q's

Country of origin. Patents in one country don't necessarily apply in another (unless they are filed in that country as well). Hence why certain Scott bikes can be sold in the EU, but not the US.

Sandwich said:

Patent law is extremely tricky,

Click to expand...

you're telling me. I work in the medical device industry. My company has a larger law/patent department than they do marketing.

jonKranked said:

My company has a larger law/patent department than they do marketing.

Click to expand...

im sure a lot of medical companies have huge legal departments due to sue happy Americans

TheInedibleHulk said:

Perhaps there is one thing new under the sun...

If I hadn't ridden it I still wouldn't believe that swingarm would move.

Click to expand...

Any chance there might be a vid clip of this thing cycling, or posibl a shot from the nondrive side?

TheInedibleHulk said:

Perhaps there is one thing new under the sun...

If I hadn't ridden it I still wouldn't believe that swingarm would move.

Click to expand...

i must admit- i was pretty much wasted 24/7 when i made that hunk of crap

ahhhhhh!!! i hate waiting in anticipation for new stuff. I like the simplistic look of the S.P and its application to various frames, but i want to see some more examples! i'm hoping that one of the companies that dw is working with on this is a company that i can easily get my hands on, and perhaps at a "cheap" price

dw said:

Definitely not "anyone" can use the design, just specific partners, of which there are six.

Spooky and Seven Cycles both have announced publicly already, you'll hear a lot more come Summer and Eurobike. There are definitely prototypes out there, but the people riding them have done a great job keeping things quiet.. Heck there was a crazy looking prototype Split Pivot DH bike being ridden all last summer, Whistler and all, and that was kept off the radar. (somehow, I have no idea how.)

Lots of work, but fun work.

Click to expand...

Will Seven be doing a 29er?

I love the look of the new spooky, please keep us updated!! Elka shock please!!
Are you looking for any rider's? I have a great team here in "The Bay", perhaps we can talk at SO?!

Brad23 said:

I love the look of the new spooky, please keep us updated!! Elka shock please!!
Are you looking for any rider's? I have a great team here in "The Bay", perhaps we can talk at SO?!

Click to expand...

1 AM this Morning

1:10 AM

1:25

1:45

2:00

jonKranked said:

you're telling me. I work in the medical device industry. My company has a larger law/patent department than they do marketing.

Click to expand...

Ha ha true. A typical PhD engineer might make what, $80/hour on average, and cost an employer double that? And I know our patent lawyers here bill us about $1k an hour. That sorta of tells you what's most important and generation revenue profit. (That's not to be a criticism of any party)

You should make a comics about story of this frame .

any news on the progess of DW split pivot patent - ive heard a few wispers that it has been awarded????

Yup...
That's what the mainpage of the Split-Pivot site says.
Now, just want to see that Spooky!

so what does this mean for Trek and a heap of companies that have jumped on the split piv band wagon that are not under the DW banner?

eatmyshorts said:

so what does this mean for Trek and a heap of companies that have jumped on the split piv band wagon that are not under the DW banner?

Click to expand...

it means that they might be infringing on a patent....

so if they are there could be an out of court settlement or they'd have to pay the patent holder back losses (i think?) and would also have to pay the patent holder for further use of the design...

LukeD said:

so if they are there could be an out of court settlement or they'd have to pay the patent holder back losses (i think?) and would also have to pay the patent holder for further use of the design...

Click to expand...

the rumor is that they have to pay the patent holder for each bike sold.
dont know if thats 100% true, but would make sense since Trek doesnt have the patent rights.

i could be wrong of course.

Mmmmm-kay.... Still can't wait to see that Split-Piv Spooky!

Just posted a bit more info regarding Split-Pivot on Pinkbike. Mostly a press release regarding the recently awarded patent, but some new photos of it as well.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/split-pivot-release-2010.html

Sandwich said:

still waiting to hear the outcome of the trek battle royale. trek's 2011 bikes are out and they show no signs of stopping...interesting. I'm just thrilled to see downhill applications of this...competition is good!

Click to expand...

No doubt, I'm excited to throw a leg over that Devinci ASAP!

Interested to see Seven's "rider tuned" take on the Split Pivot and which other brands will have it.

Sandwich said:

still waiting to hear the outcome of the trek battle royale. trek's 2011 bikes are out and they show no signs of stopping...interesting. I'm just thrilled to see downhill applications of this...competition is good!

Click to expand...

Battle Royale, or did Trek buy-in in the beginning.

4xBoy said:

Battle Royale, or did Trek buy-in in the beginning.

Click to expand...

correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't trek pursue a patent for ABP (their marketing term for split pivot)?

AFAIK, and I'm watching Split-Pivot from its 1st appearance, there has never been any court trial like competition between them.

I think the Dave Weagle Inc. is very rare example of how serious, dedicated, educated, honest, quality and successfull business shall be done. Moreover, it's one man company, as himself often said, it's very interesting what he has achieved and surely has many to achieve. Although I often was not satisfied with his uncertain answers he actually helped me to learn more.

This patent doesn't seem to actually cover the "concentric pivot" it really just covers the specific arrangement of linkages while using a concentric pivot... moreover all the Split Pivot designs we've seen so far aren't even covered under this patent as I understand it... I wonder if Spooky and Devinci are aware of this? Seems more like marketing BS to me... first post = FLAME ON .


http://split-pivot.com/Weagle Split Pivot Patent 7717212.pdf