Quantcast

Electronic Dura Ace on a DH Bike

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,908
634
I am quite happy with my saint der, and have been happy with x9 in the past. I don't think I'll ever have enough money to run di2 on a DH bike, but after playing with it on several road bikes, I sure would love to. It shifts so much better, and I'm willing to bet it has the potential shift alot better on a really mucky nasty day (assuming they do a good job of keeping it sealed and protected from the elements etc). Why is it that everybody was going ape sh1t excited over the gbox split pivot with electronic shifting on havefaiths bike, but here its the devil? I think both setups are pretty trick.
 
Aug 4, 2008
328
4
Why would a person want to do that to hers bike? In an age when bikes finally just work without problem?

I mean I'd understand if you just added a greater amount of suspension fluid displacement resistance discs.

p.s.: Got to admit it is kinda cool, nerd up teh bix0rz!!
 

spocomptonrider

sportin' the CROCS
Nov 30, 2007
1,412
118
spokanistan
Pretty cool I think, I am still of the opinion that gearboxes will make rear mechs a thing of the past but whether or not progress will continue to be made in that department remains to be seen.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,288
5,028
Ottawa, Canada
If I remember correctly, the biggest advantage of electric (tronic?) shifting is the ability to auto adjust. Don't they have a sensor that calculates where they're supposed to be? That would mean no more fiddling with cable tension, and it would be much more tolerant to bent hangers because the "throw" between cogs would automatically adjust to where it's supposed to be rather than to where the pre-determined "clicks" are.

My opinion is that this something that is more applicable to mountain bikes than road because of that auto-adjust feature. They will just have to make the robust enough.

Trickle-down to SLX level may take a few years though!!!
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
Pretty cool I think, I am still of the opinion that gearboxes will make rear mechs a thing of the past but whether or not progress will continue to be made in that department remains to be seen.
whether rear hub or frame mounted, sealed gearboxes make so much better sense than rd's in dh applications. the main hurdle i think is economies of scale; the dh segment is too small for a company to justify the development costs for a narrowly focussed device. products like the new nexus (more durable & refined) may be the way forward, as it can be sold into a variety of applications / markets, at a more reasonable price point.

selling heaps of disposable dangly derailleurs & cogsets is good business however; i can understand the resistance to evolve.
 

illflip

Monkey
Aug 20, 2007
548
0
Newark, NJ
i was at Diablo last year and a Shimano rep was there giving out surveys. got to bs about stuff, and he mentioned the Athertons were testing a DH version of the di2, and they didnt like it. something about the feel of the shifting. so they scrapped the idea.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
I'd bet all of you would be running these if they were the same price as normal shifters.
absofrigginlutely...in an age where electronics can do practically everything, what's not to like? maybe battery life, but we have cars, phones, mp3 players, etc. that are long life and rechargeable.

My beef with this is that it's hyper expensive and not logical for a DH bike. I am super happy with my saint setup because even though it was way more than I wanted to spend, the price is in the design in that it stays up out of the way and is super durable....this is the opposite...expensive because it's electronic and light.

Besides, think of how outdated a cable honestly is...it works well, yes, but it's a spring loaded system...surely in a world where you can download the complete works of shakespeare while you download on the can we can develop something better...
 

spocomptonrider

sportin' the CROCS
Nov 30, 2007
1,412
118
spokanistan
meh, i still see a wire, wireless or nothing...
Transmitting the power from the battery to the der. (to make the shifts...) would be an issue without a wire. You could most likely have the shifter wireless but it would require more fiddily bits and weight. I'm sure Shimano looked at all the angles when designing this; they aren't exactly a fly-by night operation after all.
 
Last edited:

karpi

Monkey
Apr 17, 2006
904
0
Santiasco, Chile
why don't they use a dyno to the rear wheel to power the whole thing... wouldnt it be lighter and less consuming that having to carry a battery around? Just imagine the likes of a pro downhiller saying at the end of his run... "I was running gearless cause the battery died half way down my run..." Its good to experiment, but, untill the make a lighter a properly working electric version than Id be hesitant
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,288
5,028
Ottawa, Canada
whether rear hub or frame mounted, sealed gearboxes make so much better sense than rd's in dh applications. the main hurdle i think is economies of scale; the dh segment is too small for a company to justify the development costs for a narrowly focussed device. products like the new nexus (more durable & refined) may be the way forward, as it can be sold into a variety of applications / markets, at a more reasonable price point.

selling heaps of disposable dangly derailleurs & cogsets is good business however; i can understand the resistance to evolve.
I could see one of these in a Honda-type gear-box. Speaking of which, could someone explain to me why that design was never taken up? Seemed like sheer genius to me: a cogset and derailleur inside the gear box... simple to maintain and light!
 

Demomonkey

Monkey
Apr 27, 2005
857
0
Auckland New Zealand
The battery goes about 1000 miles between charges. Wonder how long that is in DH terms? My guess is a long, long time.
Exactly, and its not like you cant pack another battery???

I predict trickle down in road to 105 level group sets in 5 years, probably less.

MTB will follow. If it were affordable I'd put it on my bikes.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
The battery goes about 1000 miles between charges. Wonder how long that is in DH terms? My guess is a long, long time.
and roadies shift more often...

back 2 point, the battery would probably die from lack of charge/time, rather than overuse.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,155
355
Roanoke, VA
By 2015 it is very likely that a large portion of the industry will have gone electric. It's that good. The price for this stuff is going to come way down. Less moving parts, solid state electronics, etc. It's good ****. I've worked on the stuff in the nastiest pro cyclocross conditions, as have dozens of other of mechanics. The worse the weather the better it works. It always shifts and always feels the same. Period. Electric shifting is the future. And the future is going to be sick!
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
I like change and the idea seems pretty cool, but I'm not convinced. As long as we're still talking about the same basic derailleur design, cables work fine for me.

Comments about how electronic shifting is "easier" kinda baffle me. I mean, shifting with cables takes too much effort? Seriously?

And maybe cost shouldn't be part of the discussion but damn that is a bulky and expensive rock-catcher back there, especially compared to the shadow stuff.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,456
388
Can't wait for this kind of stuff to come as standard on my kids bikes and they laugh at my tales of cable stretch and only 9 gears
 

A.P

Monkey
Nov 21, 2005
423
0
boston
Ive spent a good amount of time working with di2 on road and tt setups and I can say in its current state, a terrible idea for downhill. It's awesome for road bikes and by far the best option for an aero bar shifter, but it would need a re-design for dh or mtb. I think the technology is legitimate and with some changes could work well for dh.

For one, there is less spring tension on the cage than regular DA (probably less work for the battery I would imagine)

You can also only shift one gear at a time (one button click=one shift, both directions) If you want to downshift many gears at once you have to mash the button over and over.

The parallelogram part does not swing freely, you cannot grab the derailleur and move it through gears with your hand. If you force the derailleur to move like this, it will break. This means that if you hit it, the internals will break even if the derailleur itself remains attached and intact.

Last, and most importantly, the derailleur alone is 900 dollars, and if you cut or damage the electric cable, a new wiring harness is nearly 300 dollars

that being said when the price comes way down, and maybe is redesigned for mountain biking, I could see it being pretty good.
 
Last edited:

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
Pretty neat....I am not really interested in Di2 for mtn or road (which I ride more) because of the cost and, to a lesser extent, because I just don't want something else powered by batteries in my life. But every review of the Di2 I've seen and all the feedback I've heard is positive, at least as far as shifting goes. Battery life is suuuuper long. Even guys who ride a ton on the road have to be pretty lazy to get close to running the battery out.
 

w00dy

In heaven there is no beer
Jun 18, 2004
3,417
51
that's why we drink it here
Sandwich, are you really supporting this after we just had to cut some sensors off your car to make it pass inspection.

It's neat, and I'm sure some folks will pay loads for it, but I won't be drinking the kool-aid. I'll be rocking my single speed while those jokers look for a wall socket.
 

Hesh To Steel

Monkey
Dec 12, 2007
661
1
Hell's Kitchen
i was at Diablo last year and a Shimano rep was there giving out surveys. got to bs about stuff, and he mentioned the Athertons were testing a DH version of the di2, and they didnt like it. something about the feel of the shifting. so they scrapped the idea.
What the rep said was that the Athertons didn't like the shifters because they didn't make any noise, so it just kind of messed with their heads since they didn't have that audible feedback to know that the shift had been made. The shifters themselves worked flawlessly, but I think it takes some getting used to, especially when you're a high level racer who is used to things working in a very specific way.

It's gotten to the point where I enjoy reading the responses from posters who swear that every single new thing will never work and is a bad idea.