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The tires of Fort Bill

leprechaun

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
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SLC,Ut
I'm feelin kinda geeky and noticed some tire choices at Fort Bill, i'm sure you all have some dirt to spread too. There were a few flat tires at this race as well.

Aaron Gwin- Big betty front, Muddy mary rear. I don't think the Big Betty is available in a full DH casing. I saw these tires at Sea Otter on the proto DH bikes and figured they were mid casing tires for that course, but then again Gwinny raced his 575!

Mick Hannah, the clipped in Austrailian- No need to pull the sharpie jokes on this Kenda rider, i spotted High Rollers on his rig.

Anyone know what CRC runs? Kavoric goes fast with a flat front tire! And damn does he look good in a moustache.

I figured Santa Cruz ran Minions, but didn't notice.

I also noticed a lot of yellow rims/wheels out there, and it seems no one runs tubeless in the pro DH ranks...721's? 729?s painted?

Krispy
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Actualy CG commented in the live feed that a lot of people run tubeless but he doesnt like it because on a track like that you have to run a bit higher pressure at the top because of the burping on the hard hits.
 
jon-boy

jon-boy

Monkey
May 26, 2004
799
0
Vancouver BC
Kovarik was running Schwalbe too right? At least that's what I saw on one of the photo's. Not sure who the tire sponsor for that team is.
 
T

TrailzHozer

Monkey
Jan 29, 2010
120
0
Giant Team (sponsored by Michelin) was on Maxxis Minion DHF's
Matti L. was on Maxxis Minion DHF's
Kovarik was on Schwalbe tyers
Cedric (Mr. Panaracer) was on Maxxis High Rollers
 
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jon-boy

jon-boy

Monkey
May 26, 2004
799
0
Vancouver BC
Yeah, the choice by Kovarik was interesting as they are sponsored by Maxxis (according to the team website). That has to be the first time it's happened that way around!
 
leprechaun

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
Interesting about the tubeless, in the bike weight at Maribor Dirt TV clip most interviewed mentioned a heavy tube in the rear.

Thanks for playing guys!
 
T

TrailzHozer

Monkey
Jan 29, 2010
120
0
I don't think many guys run tubeless. I'm pretty sure more than 90% of the guys run tubes.

I know Minnaar ran Tubeless for a while, not sure if he still does thought.
 
dhpete93

dhpete93

Chimp
May 24, 2008
20
0
UK
Kovarik was on a set of muddy Mary's, and he's showing silver logo's at all times too. Perhaps he's gone weight weenie?

Hill was running his ever favoured Specialized Butcher proto's, who wants to point crash blame at them? :rofl:
 
M

Muttely

Monkey
Jan 26, 2009
402
0
Big bettys are definately available in a full Dh casing, i have a full Dh set in gooey gluey sitting on my bicycle as we speak! go buy some.
 
Bicyclist

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
^ Weird. Maybe so if he flats one, he (hopefully) doesn't flat the other and still has ~15 PSI to get down the hill?
 
cableguy

cableguy

Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
463
1
Southern California
^ It could be a tube inside a UST system. So if you pinch-flat, the air gets captured by the UST. My friend runs something like this, but I don't remember him drilling another hole.

Can anyone comfirm?
 
jon-boy

jon-boy

Monkey
May 26, 2004
799
0
Vancouver BC
cableguy said:
^ It could be a tube inside a UST system. So if you pinch-flat, the air gets captured by the UST. My friend runs something like this, but I don't remember him drilling another hole.

Can anyone comfirm?
Click to expand...
That would make most sense to me. Sounds like a good idea too.
 
I

illflip

Monkey
Aug 20, 2007
548
0
Newark, NJ
cableguy said:
^ It could be a tube inside a UST system. So if you pinch-flat, the air gets captured by the UST. My friend runs something like this, but I don't remember him drilling another hole.

Can anyone comfirm?
Click to expand...
i would think itd be the other way around; if you burp your UST system, the tube takes place.

i dont know how you would get the tube valve stem through the rim strip with out leaking air though.

most likely theory would be two tubes i think.
 
cableguy

cableguy

Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
463
1
Southern California
illflip said:
i would think itd be the other way around; if you burp your UST system, the tube takes place.

i dont know how you would get the tube valve stem through the rim strip with out leaking air though.

most likely theory would be two tubes i think.
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Dude, you do know how UST system works, right? And you see above that Mick was running Deemax, right?

No rim strip is used in UST.
 
leprechaun

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
OH SNAP!!!! It could be the return of "Le system" ! Nico ran it for years and Mic had it at the last Mammoth national. It was a culmination of Mavic and Michelin. If you didn't have it you weren't competative-before good t2 ply tires existed. I recall Mike King racing at Mammoth Kamakazi (when it was part of the series!!) and Michy didn't attend. He had to run regular tires/tubes and flatted and i believe lost the series overall. Stik would know. There was an article on it in MBA at the time- one of the only sources of info then.

I believe it's an insert that you air up, and on the other side there's a second valve that goes all the way through the insert to the open air inside the tire., or to a tube. Air up the insert-and it locks the tire to the rim- and then air up the tire. The tubeless tire is locked on, and the insert protects the rim. The insert could be like a roadie tire- tough and can be aire up to 50-100psi. Even if you tear the tire the insert can be ridden on- fast!!

I saw Nico win a WC with a tire that looked mostly flat but he could still pin it. It looked like it went flat but the insert allowed him to finish with speed and the tire didn't come off.

It's about time!! I was thinking of taking a tubular 650 road tire and trying to make one- been thinking about it every day for the last few months. I dunno if you could fit a tubie on a standard rim. I was thinking of puttin a hole through the tread and casing and gluing in a long valve stem through the whole thing to air up the tire.

In motocross there's a tubeless conversion that does this exact thing, and the insert looks a lot like a road tire casing. I don't think it's popular because flats just aren't as big of a concern.

How would 2 tubes work? Inflate them both evenly? If one flatted the second would surely not last long. Who knows?!
 
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I

illflip

Monkey
Aug 20, 2007
548
0
Newark, NJ
cableguy said:
Dude, you do know how UST system works, right? And you see above that Mick was running Deemax, right?

No rim strip is used in UST.
Click to expand...
o hah total brain fart...i knew that haha

but still, ok no rim strip, how does the tube valve stem not leak air into the UST system from the hole? or am i just not thinking straight today?
 
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hellonasty

hellonasty

Monkey
Mar 8, 2005
208
0
MSA
Kovarick has been using Schwalbe since early lats season. He likes the rubber (compound) better than Maxxis, it reminds him of the good ole Intense 4 Ply Fro, without the weight penalty. He prefer the feeling of the Gooey Gluey over the Super Tacky, he mostly use the Muddy Mary's (2.35/2.5) or Dirty Dan when it is, well when it is Dirty!

He also ran tubeless setup last year in Mont-Ste-Anne and Bromont WC, with regular Muddy Mary (non-UST) with Mavic Deemax Regular or Ultimate with Stan's sealant. I know all this because I was helping and wrenching for the team (CRC/Intense) for those 2 events along with Dave Garland and Jason Marsch.
 
Capricorn

Capricorn

Monkey
Jan 9, 2010
425
0
Cape Town, ZA
hellonasty said:
Kovarick has been using Schwalbe since early lats season. He likes the rubber (compound) better than Maxxis, it reminds him of the good ole Intense 4 Ply Fro, without the weight penalty. He prefer the feeling of the Gooey Gluey over the Super Tacky, he mostly use the Muddy Mary's (2.35/2.5) or Dirty Dan when it is, well when it is Dirty!
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i'm not a pro rider by any measure, but after using Minion's almost exclusively for over a year, and then moving over to Schwalbe's latest (Dirty Dan's as the track was greasy),i must say they've got some serious win in them tires. The gooey gluey compound is without a doubt as good as the ST, if not slightly better. The dirty Dans' spikes are very well designed to not fold, roll extremely well compared to a even an HR, and the compound hooks up on just about anything, except pine needles on rock :P, oh and they shed mud really well. No need to slap on my wetscreams.

It's winter down in Cape Town, so the Dirty Dan can stay on for the rest of the winter, but so far, i'm super impressed with Schwalbe.
 
weedkilla

weedkilla

Monkey
Jul 6, 2008
362
10
Same results with the muddy mary - only time I wish for minions is hard pack clay that is greasy and wet on top. Even then everything sucks so its hard to tell.
 
S

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Capricorn said:
i'm not a pro rider by any measure, but after using Minion's almost exclusively for over a year, and then moving over to Schwalbe's latest (Dirty Dan's as the track was greasy),i must say they've got some serious win in them tires. The gooey gluey compound is without a doubt as good as the ST, if not slightly better. The dirty Dans' spikes are very well designed to not fold, roll extremely well compared to a even an HR, and the compound hooks up on just about anything, except pine needles on rock :P, oh and they shed mud really well. No need to slap on my wetscreams.

It's winter down in Cape Town, so the Dirty Dan can stay on for the rest of the winter, but so far, i'm super impressed with Schwalbe.
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I put a Dirty Dan on the front of my bike recently and I'm pretty impressed with the thing. Grip is equal or better than a Minion in any situation, the sidewalls seem pretty bombproof (ran a Muddy Mary on the rear for a while too). It doesn't roll as slow as I expected, though I wouldn't say it's "fast" rolling by any means. Only thing I don't like about the Gooey Gluey compound is that it wears out so damn fast. Even compared to SRY Minions those tyres wear quick, and the Muddy Mary I had on the back was literally ripping knobs off the carcass too. If money was no issue I think these would be my new tyres of choice, but they're pricey and they wear too quick for me to be able to afford to run em at all.
 
weedkilla

weedkilla

Monkey
Jul 6, 2008
362
10
Running gooey front, triple rear I'm not having any issues with wear. Similar or better than 42a front, 60a rear maxxis. Again I'm only on muddy mary - haven't any need for dirty dan in South Oz.
 
bizutch

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
I like the tube inside a tubeless tire/rim idea. Tear a sidewall, still have a tube. Pinch a tube, air stays in the tubeless. You could make a tubeless rim strip with 2 valve stems embedded in it and the tube. All one big dual cock ring.
 
Capricorn

Capricorn

Monkey
Jan 9, 2010
425
0
Cape Town, ZA
with you on that Rocket. Just had a look at my DDs, and the outter knobs are getting really ragged, and I haven't done a lot of riding on them...
 
GoodbyePorkPie

GoodbyePorkPie

Monkey
Dec 7, 2009
197
0
Cloud Kiwi
Athertons on Continental?

Ive just been trying out the new Kaisers over the last few weeks, and mostly in wet conditions where I'd be running Swampthings or my cut down Wetsreams, they are awesome, and can't wait to get em in some more dry conditions, feel very much like old 40a Minion Fs but better, lighter, roll faster and drift very predictably, I went back and forth between Schwalble and Maxxis but these are staying put, I'm impressed, now I want some Rain Kings, but mostly think I'd only run it on the front the rear hooks up so well, brakes so well yet rolls super fast.

Maybe most impressive is how stiff the sidewalls are 2.5s for there weight, ridiculously stiff its awesome!

Der Kaiser: 3 plies / total 180 tpi / Black Chili Compound
Der Kaiser 62-559 26 x 2,5 black/black foldable - 1200g

:thumb:

Great thread love talking tires :D
 
S

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Capricorn said:
with you on that Rocket. Just had a look at my DDs, and the outter knobs are getting really ragged, and I haven't done a lot of riding on them...
Click to expand...
Yeah they do wear very quickly. Loving the Dirty Dan as a front tyre right now, especially in loose loamy stuff, but as a rear tyre their lifespan is is pretty much single digit runs. Could pretty easily wreck one of those in a day or two if you were being careless with the brakes.
 
GoodbyePorkPie

GoodbyePorkPie

Monkey
Dec 7, 2009
197
0
Cloud Kiwi
leprechaun said:
I'm feelin kinda geeky and noticed some tire choices at Fort Bill, i'm sure you all have some dirt to spread too. There were a few flat tires at this race as well.

Aaron Gwin- Big betty front, Muddy mary rear. I don't think the Big Betty is available in a full DH casing. I saw these tires at Sea Otter on the proto DH bikes and figured they were mid casing tires for that course, but then again Gwinny raced his 575!
Click to expand...
Sure it wasn't MM front and BB rear? seems a weird combo all pic's Ive seen of Gwin have had MM front, even in dry he's said he likes the MM front BB rear? Maybe worked better for FB opposite way, just asking?

Mick Hannah, the clipped in Australian- No need to pull the sharpie jokes on this Kenda rider, i spotted High Rollers on his rig.
Click to expand...
LOL

Anyone know what CRC runs? Kavoric goes fast with a flat front tire! And damn does he look good in a moustache.
Click to expand...
Aussie Nats he was on Schwables

I figured Santa Cruz ran Minions, but didn't notice.
Click to expand...
Minnar and Peaty been big Highroller fans for years doubt they on Minions but could be wrong was not there haha, e spec how did the carbon rims look any feed back on how Peaty esp and Minnar are finding there Edge King rim hub combo?

I also noticed a lot of yellow rims/wheels out there, and it seems no one runs tubeless in the pro DH ranks...721's? 729?s painted?
Click to expand...
Possibly the new Mavi Deemax Ultimates lighter than std dee maxs 28spoke straight pull no j bend spokes awesome wheels.

Krispy
Click to expand...
Oh the Kaisers apparently wear super well also so might be the new alternative to the expensive Schwables that wear super fast.

Der Kaiser - The Emperor !

Der Kaiser


In the lab, the Kaiser shows off with its profile design, casing angles and the compound recipe. On course, it readily navigates the rocky, muddy, slopes of World Cup DH courses. Combining a double-walled casing with a special soft & tacky Black Chili compound formed into a brand new DH-specific tread pattern the Kaiser is the new master of gravity.
 
weedkilla

weedkilla

Monkey
Jul 6, 2008
362
10
Looks like gee was actually riding Der Kaiser this time, but Rachel was on High rollers.... But I cant find a good enough photo to be sure - can anyone confim?
 
S

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Demomonkey said:
Just how exactly does that work?

Seems redundant that the tubeless system requires more pressure and burps notwithstanding when one of the benefits hyped by manufacturers and the press was that you can run lower pressures.
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Well you CAN run lower pressures in XC tyres, and still get lower rolling resistance to boot. I think that's where the original claim comes from, because my experience with tubeless tyres was that no matter how hard I ran them, I could always manage to find a corner where I could burp them. That Tubliss bead lock thing looks like a good idea, wonder if that can be adapted for DH bikes. If you could lock the bead to the rim properly that'd solve my big whinge about tubeless.
 
GoodbyePorkPie

GoodbyePorkPie

Monkey
Dec 7, 2009
197
0
Cloud Kiwi
weedkilla said:
Looks like gee was actually riding Der Kaiser this time, but Rachel was on High rollers.... But I cant find a good enough photo to be sure - can anyone confim?
Click to expand...
Ya looks like Gee on Kaisers here!



GM on HRs STs


Rachel what looks like HRs [Maxxis Highrollers & Minion DH rear?]




Peaty on Peaty specials lol


CC on Minions


Love this shot of NR have this same Thor Core setup and back up set in black sick moto kit, vented totally rocks.


Sabrina bikes look so sik, pink rox for chicks and on HRs?

riding in Urge Helmets and Royal clothing sick stuff.
 
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E

epic

Turbo Monkey
Sep 15, 2008
1,041
21
Are any of you guys runing the Kaiser or the Schwalbes dry on 823s? Neither one is listed as a UST.
 
weedkilla

weedkilla

Monkey
Jul 6, 2008
362
10
I ghetto tubelessed my schwalbes and a fair few small pinprick holes spewed stans in the sidewall. I'd take an educated guesstimate that dry would be unlikely for schwalbe. They did however air up with a track pump so it wont be the bead thats a problem.
 
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