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“if you like your health plan, you can keep it”

$tinkle

$tinkle

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Feb 12, 2003
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well, not, *you*, but the guy behind you maybe?

from that right wing rag NYT: Small Firms May Not Keep Current Health Plans After White House Decision
Although President Obama and many Democrats promised during the health care reform debate that “if you like your health plan, you can keep it,” the health insurance plans that are now offered by small businesses probably will not survive the transition to a regulated marketplace. The Obama administration acknowledged this on Monday, when it proposed regulations for determining what insurance plans can remain exempt from market reforms. And while participants in those plans will probably be grateful for it, business owners may be less sanguine about the outcome.

Because so many people were evidently reluctant to trade the comfort of their current coverage for the promise of better coverage, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act enshrined Mr. Obama’s promise in an ambiguous “grandfather clause” for existing insurance plans. For example, plans that were in effect on the day the law was enacted, March 23, 2010, will not have to adhere to the rules that define the minimum benefits in an insurance policy or specify an employer’s minimum contribution to premiums. They will not have to offer preventive care. Perhaps most surprising, they will be able to charge different premiums to different people based on health factors.

The provision alarmed some reform advocates, even though at the time nobody was certain how many people might be affected by it. “It’s unclear that companies will want to have the same insurance plan in 2014 that they have in 2010,” the M.I.T. health economist Jonathan Gruber * told The Agenda in January. In part, though, whether a company will have the same plan will depend on what constitutes the same plan. Congress left that up to the administration, which offered up its formulation on Monday.

The Obama administration said it tried to strike a balance with the new regulations. “The rule announced today preserves the ability of the American people to keep their current plan if they like it,” declared a summary of the rule, “while providing new benefits, by minimizing market disruption and putting us on a glide path toward the competitive, patient-centered market of the future.”

In general, according to the summary, grandfathered plans will not lose that status when they make “routine changes.” These can include cost increases to deductibles and co-payments, so long as they are not “significant.” (However, the administration’s definition of “significant ” may differ from yours: “medical inflation plus 15 percentage points.”) A plan can also voluntarily add new benefits or new consumer protections without jeopardizing grandfather status.

On the other hand, “Plans will lose their grandfathered status if they choose to make significant changes that reduce benefits or increase costs to consumers.” It cannot, for example, raise the co-insurance percentage (the share of a medical bill that the patient pays). Nor can it reduce the employer premium contribution by more than 5 percent. (The actual cost of premiums, however, is not a factor in determining grandfather status at all.)

Most Americans get their insurance through companies with more than 100 employees, and the administration claims these people are not likely to see major changes to their policies. That may be fine for many of them, since big-company insurance plans have tended to adopt the protections the new law extends to everyone. However, not all do, and patients in subpar grandfathered plans will be left out. Here is where the premise of “if you like it, you can keep it” gets complicated: it’s not whether the employees like what they have. It’s whether the employers do
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simply brilliant in it's predictability. who's cozying up to big business *now*? [rhetorical question]

don't know about you, but i'm growing weary of paying double what i was 2 yrs ago for what amounts to half the coverage. it sucks now, and it's only going to get worse - much worse - unless i want to join the ranks of tri-care & other fed'l emp plans.
 
Silver

Silver

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$tinkle said:
don't know about you, but i'm growing weary of paying double what i was 2 yrs ago for what amounts to half the coverage. it sucks now, and it's only going to get worse - much worse - unless i want to join the ranks of tri-care & other fed'l emp plans.
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Blame the retards on your side who kept screaming about socialism.

Or you could just pray. That should be all the healthcare you'll ever need.
 
Silver

Silver

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$tinkle said:
yep, that's leadership for ya

doing a heckuva job, brownie
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What's the matter? When I called this plan a bigger domestic failure than Katrina, it wasn't enough for you?

Actions have consequences. Your ilk kept screaming about death panels and socialism. You have no one to blame but yourself.
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

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Silver said:
Your ilk kept screaming about death panels and socialism. You have no one to blame but yourself.
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kidwoo said:
It's awesome how $tinkle is actually making fun of the legislation that he and colorado springs are responsible for forming yet that somehow blazes above his folicles at the speed of light.
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so you think this is some sort of gymkata move by teh WH in an effort to let us eat cake?

just b/c this was predicted & consistently opposed by the right has nothing to do w/ them being held accountable for actions put forth largely by the left

but i am interesting in your demonstration this is somehow the result of conservative policies/actions.
 
dante

dante

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$tinkle said:
don't know about you, but i'm growing weary of paying double what i was 2 yrs ago for what amounts to half the coverage. it sucks now, and it's only going to get worse - much worse - unless i want to join the ranks of tri-care & other fed'l emp plans.
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So let me get this straight: The old system was terrible, so therefore anything different must be worse.

:confused:
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

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dante said:
So let me get this straight: The old system was terrible, so therefore anything different must be worse.

:confused:
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no. i was satisfied w/ my payments & cov'g 2 yrs ago
today, i am dissatisfied w/ both
tomorrow, i anticipate more than merely a continuance of today.

not b/c rush/hannity/coulter told me so, but b/c as we [in pelosi's words] "can find out what's in it", i'm growing more cynical. so maybe this whole post is about my festering cynicism, brought about by recent events beyond my control, but within my understanding
 
Silver

Silver

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You know, we tried to explain your retarded ass why this wouldn't work.

Healthcare is a classic market failure. You keep saying you wanted market based reforms. Here they come, asshole...
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

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Silver said:
You know, we tried to explain your retarded ass why this wouldn't work.

Healthcare is a classic market failure. You keep saying you wanted market based reforms. Here they come, asshole...
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i'll agree to the point that gov't interference is part of classic market failure

a personal anecdote: i was on advair 100/20 or 250/50...i forget, and it was $20/month

my daughter's now on it, & it's now out of pocket for the first $400 & then $50/ea now.

damn jew fundy lawyers
 
Silver

Silver

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$tinkle said:
i'll agree to the point that gov't interference is part of classic market failure

a personal anecdote: i was on advair 100/20 or 250/50...i forget, and it was $20/month

my daughter's now on it, & it's now out of pocket for the first $400 & then $50/ea now.

damn jew fundy lawyers
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That's why you're a retard who is getting charged up the ass.

What's your daughter's health worth to you? Everything, right? The guys with the MBAs running the healthcare companies know this.
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
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Silver said:
What's your daughter's health worth to you? Everything, right? The guys with the MBAs running the healthcare companies know this.
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so are we being charged more simply b/c the HC companies are making at a last-minute run at our pockets, or is it the failure of this administration to regulate a too-free market? i mean, they could've jammed me in the pooper in years prior, but didn't. why is that? did they meet w/ teh bilderbergs & conspire to price fix?

or is it that b/c they are grandfathered in, it's a prudent business decision to shaft us now in anticipation of mandated costs to them they'll have to make up later when they are mandated to insure a high-risk pool?

makes you think the guys w/ MBAs were the only ones to have read the bill last year.
kidwoo said:
Speed of light.


I'd say *whoosh* but you'd still probably miss it.
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you can't hear light.


dumbass.
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

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MMike said:
I give credit for the Gymkata reference. Though I'm guessing it was inspired by my brother's youtube clip he posted yesterday
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missed it
maybe we're subject to the same cosmic influences
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

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$tinkle said:
you can't hear light.


dumbass.
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"speed of" =/= substance itself


kansas "physics" educated moron





Let me spell it out. Outcries from your posse were not in regards to what ended up passing and its shortcomings (that was from the other side remember?). If it wasn't for fvcktards like the orange boner, and your teabagger buddies, something functional like single payer, fully subsidized GOVERNMENT programs would have been discussed. But because of all the pants on fire, run from communism bullshlt, what we got was some crappy bastardization of a whole lot of things that don't particularly work that well.

THAT is what happened. So really........pay your fvcking premiums and copays and truly know your place in all this. Because if what this administration really wanted had been put in place, your little whines would have been exactly what would have been addressed.


so keep going with this

i'll agree to the point that gov't interference is part of classic market failure
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And good luck:thumb:
 
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wanabe

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Mar 16, 2007
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$tinkle said:
i mean, they could've jammed me in the pooper in years prior, but didn't. why is that?
dumbass.
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They did and you liked it. Health care expenses have been rising far faster than anyone's pay raises over the past ten+ years. Thats the problem! Politicians, lobbyist, and econ annalists have been telling us for years that its for new drugs and tech for a better future. All the while insurance, pharm, and med tech companies make out like bandits taking advantage of the sick. To a tune of ~13% of our GDP. Thats far larger than any other countries with good health care. For all the people who hate taxes and want to keep their money, thats allot a frign cash!

Side note:
And I have not heard of anyone happy with their healthcare provider until this "socialist agenda" came about. Weird.
 
dante

dante

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So you're paying out the ass for Advair, and GSK last year made.... $28 billion dollars off of people like you, and returned... $0.61 for each of it's 2.5b shares outstanding. Sweet! Just like any other capitalistic, for-profit (NON-SOCIALIST) industry, they're making money on you because they CAN. God bless America™, I'll say a prayer to baby Jeebus tonight just thinking about you engaging in supply and demand and apparently still paying almost double *with* insurance as Canadians pay for the same prescription *without* insurance.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

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kidwoo said:
It's awesome how $tinkle is actually making fun of the legislation that he and colorado springs are responsible for forming yet that somehow blazes above his folicles at the speed of light.
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Hey, you leave me the fvck out of this. If I could move I would.

I know I've pointed this out before, but I continue to fail to understand the Right Wing outrage and demonization of what is essentially the plan that Bob Dole and the Republitards put up in 1992. This is essentially having an idea, and then screaming bloody murder about what a ishtty idea it is when someone else picks it up later.

wanabe said:
Side note:
And I have not heard of anyone happy with their healthcare provider until this "socialist agenda" came about. Weird.
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Actually I was. When I got hit Pacificare paid out approx 1 million in claims with nary a hiccup. It was the fact the my employer ran a self funded program and kept trying to drop me that pissed my right the fvck off and moved me very far left on the insurance issue. Pacificare=awesome, US largest regional aircraft carrier=crooked as a dogs hind leg.
 
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wanabe

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Pesqueeb said:
Actually I was. When I got hit Pacificare paid out approx 1 million in claims with nary a hiccup. It was the fact the my employer ran a self funded program and kept trying to drop me that pissed my right the fvck off and moved me very far left on the insurance issue. Pacificare=awesome, US largest regional aircraft carrier=crooked as a dogs hind leg.
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Noted.

Not tying to sound like a smart a$$ but the negatives of people going bankrupt, loosing their house, loosing benefits, being denied coverage (left sick and dieing), and the bonuses paid to employees that brought profit regardless of what happens to our american citizens, over shadows the few positives.
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

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Feb 2, 2007
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wanabe said:
Noted.

Not tying to sound like a smart a$$ but the negatives of people going bankrupt, loosing their house, loosing benefits, being denied coverage (left sick and dieing), and the bonuses paid to employees that brought profit regardless of what happens to our american citizens, over shadows the few positives.
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Oh no, don't get me wrong, I agree completely. IMHO what is being called "health care reform" didn't even begin to go far enough.
 
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