Prototype Marzocchi 888 EVO Ti With Ti Nitrate Stanchions

Didnt RS already prove the TiNitrate can not handle the long-term stresses of DH racing in mud? Otherwise looks cool, I guess.

Yeah i think the proved it didn't work about 4 or 5 years ago but damn it looks cool.

Trekrules said:

This should all add up to a fork that is as sensitive as an emo teenager kid, but a whole lot more fun to abuse.

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They must be high. There is nothing more fun than that.

Seems to me Marzocchi has bigger problems to worry about then how slick the stanchions are. Stiction has never really been a Marzocchi problem. Unfortunately, that was often because the damn thing had blown up and sprayed oil everywhere.

It is probably Kashima, Ti Nitride will last 2 days with the current Champery conditions.

If it really is Ti nitride I am sure it will be lousy like the crap azz ti nitride that came on my 2003 Boxxer.

First they need to put a proper shimmed mid valve on the sucker.

Do we need gold whale sperm Stanchions.... NO

We want a fork that works good, lasts in all conditions, is easy to service and does not cost the same price as whale sperm!

I bet this will be a joke of a price too :-(

Does look nice though!

Yawnn... More hype on the same bad product.

Marzocchi should just partner with Avy to supply the internals. The b-team engineering is killing this product line.

I'd make a proper rebound piston (shimmed) first before updating the stanchion surface.

Get the reliable cromo stanchion if you want reliability, probably slides better anyway.

A "works" 888? So it has a shimmed rebound valve, anti-bottoming cone, and seperate high/low compression adjustments!!





No? Oh, I see they are just blowing smoke up our ass. Yes, if only my marzocchi stanchions lasted longer and the open-bath lubrication was smoother.

dropmachine.com said:

Unfortunately, that was often because the damn thing had blown up and sprayed oil everywhere.

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Marzocchis often blow up and spray oil everywhere? Since when? Marzocchi has some of the best seals in the industry. As a fox-fanboy you are seriously dissing marzocchi on puking oil? lol... I think this "works" 888 is a peice of marketing crap, but your comment doesn't make any sense.

Trekrules said:

The sliders are also still teflon impregnated as well.

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And my nipples went to france!

Jm_ said:

Marzocchis often blow up and spray oil everywhere? Since when? Marzocchi has some of the best seals in the industry. As a fox-fanboy you are seriously dissing marzocchi on puking oil? lol... I think this "works" 888 is a peice of marketing crap, but your comment doesn't make any sense.

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Are you out of your mind? The last couple of years Mazocchi has made some of the sketchiest forks I have ever tried. From leaking seals to stiction all the way through to spotty damping to features outright not working, Marzocchi has done ANYTHIHNG but produce the high quality forks they used to and are known for.

Theres a reason its a 2 horse race in suspension right now ya know.

dropmachine.com said:

Are you out of your mind? The last couple of years Mazocchi has made some of the sketchiest forks I have ever tried. From leaking seals to stiction all the way through to spotty damping to features outright not working, Marzocchi has done ANYTHIHNG but produce the high quality forks they used to and are known for.

Theres a reason its a 2 horse race in suspension right now ya know.

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That was 08, one production run (not the entire year). Yeah, they were bad, mainly due to the bushing spec.

Hmmm... interesting.

The sliders are also still teflon impregnated as well... It's also worth mentioning that the process and chemicals used for these stanchion tubes is different than found on some other options available on mountain bike forks today..

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So, if the stanchions (sliders in the article) are impreg with Teflon AND they are using some kind of variation on the Ti-Nitride process... I'm really curious about the specifics of what it is they are doing exactly.

Without knowing the exact details, I think it's a bit premature to make a judgement on preformance. Regarding the old pre-SRAM Boxxers, I had an 03' WC with the "Slipper Silver" stanchions and that was an EN process if I'm not mistaken. THOSE things did NOT hold up to abuse well at all.

The old 04'-07 888's had black stanchions, but the type of process used to coat them escapes me right now. To make a guess: Wasn't that TiNi (Ti-Nitride) as well?

Just sitting back and looking at the industry-wide picture, I think it's pretty cool to see the major fork manufacturers pushing each other. Internally, I don't know which move was made first: Kashi-coat with FOX or the DLC on the Boxxer, but its clear that manufacturers are utilizing this tech in many different ways. To add value, differentiation, and competitiveness to their product Marz has decided to experiment with coatings as well. True - those of us who have been around long enough can remember when fork manufacturers went through what some would call a "trend" similar to this years ago, HOWEVER the technology and access to technology is MUCH further along today than it was in the past regarding this subject. Hopefully all parties involved have taken what they've learned from the past and can successfully bring to the market a viable product (stanchion coating) in their own way: Kashi from FOX, DLC from SRAM, and this teflon/TiNi coating Marz is experimenting with.

Personally I think the gold stanchions look pimp. Throw some metal-flake green, metal-flake dark blue, or metal-flake black lowers on them and that would look pretty sick. Hopefully they are able to make their coating process durable.

Kowa had Kashima before Fox.
I think it's all marketing crap, and may offer minimal benefit, but doubt it'll be durable, going from what Moto mates have told me.
More important stuff should be addressed before fancy coatings I reckon, and durability. Crhome stantions for me please, or nickle even.

I thought a benefit of TiNi was that it's very hard and durable yet doesn't flake off, no?
Anyone KNOW why Rockshox stopped using it (not speculation). At the time I got the impression that it was due to cost and they substituted "slippery silver" because it was cheaper/easier and supposedly as good (didn't prove to be).

no skid marks said:

Kowa had Kashima before Fox.
I think it's all marketing crap, and may offer minimal benefit, but doubt it'll be durable, going from what Moto mates have told me.
More important stuff should be addressed before fancy coatings I reckon, and durability. Crhome stantions for me please, or nickle even.

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Of course! I was saying that FOX was the first manufacturer to bring it to the world of DH MTB. Kashi has been used in moto for years.

Outwardly it does seem like marketing BS but those coatings really do perceptibly improve performance. At the same time, like you alluded to - coatings are just the finishing touch to the more important damping internals, seals, and overall fit of the fork chassis. I have not ridden the new 2010 888's but look forward to trying one out. It would seem that Marz has recognized the issues they were having over the past few years and are working toward getting their product back to the performance levels they enjoyed with the first gen 888's.

Basically: Let's give em' a "wait and see" / "benefit of the doubt" approach here.

Jm_ said:

That was 08, one production run (not the entire year). Yeah, they were bad, mainly due to the bushing spec.

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it was the entire year and most of the 2009's as well.


continue your positive posts though. another nominee for my custom title

2008s & 2009s had bushing issues. The 2010 lowers are a new casting (looks different side by side) with a new bushing and seal design. I just switched yesterday between '09 & '10 lowers and the new ones have NO play.

surely Fox needs the Kashima coating more than other brands?

if you compare a 2010 Fox 40 to a 2010 Boxxer or 2010 888, the Fox definitely feel "sticky" in the initial stroke, no matter what kind of lowers service you try?

so for 2011, does this mean the Kashima coating on Fox will reduce break-away friction (small bumps) on the 40's?

It should. However, some of that stiction is from the damper cart and I bet they don't put Kashima on that (they do on "works" forks) cuz it can't be seen. Fox calls for 50ml of lubricating oil in the legs. If your fork isn't slippery enough maybe try 70ml and turn the bike upside down for a minute before each run to get the oil up into the seals.

It's pretty darn easy to get almost all the drag out of a 40. Just be very very careful cleaning and detailing every sliding surface of the fork (there are 4 - seal/bushings for each leg, outside of the small damper rod, inside of the damper body). A really thorough polish on each one gives good results, along with using higher quality suspension grease and oils.

Hacktastic said:

It's pretty darn easy to get almost all the drag out of a 40. Just be very very careful cleaning and detailing every sliding surface of the fork (there are 4 - seal/bushings for each leg, outside of the small damper rod, inside of the damper body). A really thorough polish on each one gives good results, along with using higher quality suspension grease and oils.

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my friend's 40 feels horrible. what can he polish the surfaces with?

I'm curious about this as well... silver polish? I'm presuming it must be some type of polishing compound that has zero grit in it, no matter how fine in granularity it may be...

No polishing compound. Just a rag or really mellow emery cloth and elbow grease.

For stanchions, Mothers or Blue Magic, and a polishing wheel/buffer helps a lot. I like the Mothers for the stanchions and bushings ONLY as it does have an abrasive in it and can leave a nice crosshatch. If you can get the stanchions into a lathe and use some 000 steel wool on them, that will give just the tiniest bit of surface crosshatch, followed by the polishing. The steel wool on your fingers or some kind of a stick for the bushings inside the lowers works well.

For the damper, that needs to have a perfect seal, so no crosshatch there. Just a very VERY thorough cleaning of all surfaces with acetone and silicon spray on all surfaces buffed in a few times.

I try to use paper towels or a real polishing cloth for cleaning - no shop rags as they shed a lot and leave behind larger particulate.

Pro Circuit PC-03 red grease inside the dust wiper lips (again, inside the lips, not jammed under the wiper - that does nothing). It's also safe to put just a drop of that inside the damper main seal. I also liberally grease up the two seal surfaces of the bladder. I've never had one fail at those points with that method. That grease is made to dissolve just fine in the damper oil.

Also helps to give the spring and the inside of the stanchions a good cleaning too, since that is effectively another sliding surface. Same with the spring plunger. That double wound circlip can be a real mofo to get back in place though...

thanks, ill pass it on to him.

Hacktastic said:

It's pretty darn easy to get almost all the drag out of a 40. Just be very very careful cleaning and detailing every sliding surface of the fork (there are 4 - seal/bushings for each leg, outside of the small damper rod, inside of the damper body). A really thorough polish on each one gives good results, along with using higher quality suspension grease and oils.

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This will of course allow me to beat Lancaster's records set almost ten years ago on a certain trail right?

Hacktastic said:

For stanchions, Mothers or Blue Magic, and a polishing wheel/buffer helps a lot. I like the Mothers for the stanchions and bushings ONLY as it does have an abrasive in it and can leave a nice crosshatch. If you can get the stanchions into a lathe and use some 000 steel wool on them, that will give just the tiniest bit of surface crosshatch, followed by the polishing. The steel wool on your fingers or some kind of a stick for the bushings inside the lowers works well.

For the damper, that needs to have a perfect seal, so no crosshatch there. Just a very VERY thorough cleaning of all surfaces with acetone and silicon spray on all surfaces buffed in a few times.

I try to use paper towels or a real polishing cloth for cleaning - no shop rags as they shed a lot and leave behind larger particulate.

Pro Circuit PC-03 red grease inside the dust wiper lips (again, inside the lips, not jammed under the wiper - that does nothing). It's also safe to put just a drop of that inside the damper main seal. I also liberally grease up the two seal surfaces of the bladder. I've never had one fail at those points with that method. That grease is made to dissolve just fine in the damper oil.

Also helps to give the spring and the inside of the stanchions a good cleaning too, since that is effectively another sliding surface. Same with the spring plunger. That double wound circlip can be a real mofo to get back in place though...

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Hacktastic - Thanks man! I may be getting a 40 to replace my 08' WC soon, so this will definitely help with set-up!

Trekrules said:

Found this on bikerumor.com don't know if you have seen it or not

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yep, two months ago
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225598&page=15
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225598&page=16


i saw Bryce's fork at Windham along with the black TiNi version. the CRC team mechanic said they will be running something a bit different for next week's Worlds and they havent run the protos at all yet.

From Windham