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Possible South East Race Series in 2011

FCLinder

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2002
4,402
0
Greenville, South Carolina
Ok this thread is for talks of the possibility of bringing all race promoters together to put on a 2011 Race Series. Yes if you are a Race Promoter this is your time to step it up. You must already have a venue and have already put on a successful event. This Series needs to have DH, Super D or DS tracks. I am willing to step up and help make this happen from an organization and sponsorship level. I am simply trying to help put the puzzle together so we can have something great in the South East again. We do now, but it can be better and more recognized. I have plenty of industry contacts to help make this happen. It is time for the South East to truly be recognized in the Mt Bike Gravity Sport World.

First off I need to know all the Promoters out there so we all can come together and speak our thoughts. So speak up or PM me your contact info.

Racers this thread is also a place for you to speak you mind and tell us what you want.

Thanks,
Cecil Linder
 
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profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
It is time for the South East to truly be recognized in the Mt Bike Gravity Sport World.
There is the problem.

This is The South. Grassroots is what we do well and I think its great. It should be about having fun, challenging yourself, and seeing your buddies. We are not going to take over the world of DH mtbing with 800ft mountains and 100 degree heat. I think the sooner we just think about having fun and having grassroots races, the bigger success we will be.

The best races I have ever been to where the Carter's Lake races. They were cheap and the racing was great. There wasn't a pompous atmosphere about how awesome the mountain was or whining about more practice time. We all knew it was a small hill and we just focused on riding and racing. I don't think anyone has ever had anything negative to say about those races.

You guys want a series. Great. But lets focus on rider fun and keep that as the utmost important factor. Screw City or County parks departments, screw raising money for trails, screw raising awareness for gravity parks, screw extravagant prizes, and a gazillion classes. Racing should be about you and the clock.

Hawksnest is on the right track. They gave out bourbon and walkers for prizes.

TTC is on the right track. They ask the racers what they want. Nothing fancy, just good racing.

Beech is on the right track. Simple one day races without a lot of fuss.

As for Windrock. Might I remind you. The last time we held a race there there was less than 3 expert racers, there is no way to have a beginner class, there is a $18/day permit to factor in, and the Fall Festival only draws around 60-70 participants.

However, what I do think we could well is gated racing and Super Ds.
 

Trilliamiano

Monkey
Oct 7, 2007
205
0
Boone, NC
Dirty Bird Productions is in 100%, we've been thinking about this for a while. I think we (the south east as a region) can pull off a sweet race series while still maintaining a very grassroots feel.
 

FCLinder

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2002
4,402
0
Greenville, South Carolina
Dirty Bird Productions is in 100%, we've been thinking about this for a while. I think we (the south east as a region) can pull off a sweet race series while still maintaining a very grassroots feel.
I agree here. I am not saying we need to be a US Nationals but to have a bigger presents as a area for Gravity Racing in general. We were going in the right steps back in 2001 through 2003, then it all fell apart. It has to be a team effort to keep it alive. Not about who puts on the best races, who gives out the best prizes, or who makes $$ for putting the event on. I am thinking we put together a program that keeps points standings for the year, all races have the same Race Classes, all races use USA Cycling (this is hard to crew, but really is the best option at this time), and award all winners the same at each race. Have an overall awards for the year’s winners, etc. This will keep the competition down between the race promoters and keep their heads level to focus on the overall goal.

Now with that being said everyone has to understand there is a cost to each venue to putting on an event. The cost has to be covered and the race promoter needs to step up and tell the Board (When put together) what that cost is. The Venues and Ski Resorts are looking at this as a Profit business and if they don’t make something they will stop doing it. It takes a lot of time out of one person or a team to organize a race. It’s not a full time paying job. We do it for the love of it. I see the Ski Resorts as wanting to see how they can make $$ during the off season. Well, they need to open the trails up once or twice during the Month for a ride day to do so. Do it right and not half ass it. Riders will come ride sick trails and pay for it. What they get from the race they help put on or allow someone else to put on for them is “Marketing for their Mountain” and that only. The only way for them to make something off of an event is to have all the cost up front covered by sponsors. So it’s back to Marketing their Mt. by the races. Once they see this maybe they will start opening the Mt’s up for Ride Days so they can start making money.

Back to the races series, once I have info from all promoters I will start communication to organize the possibility of the Series to happen. I am very open minded and care about what people have to say, so please feel free to speak up. If you don’t, don’t come complaining when it doesn’t go the way you want it to. If you do complain, then we will just have to send you over to our Complaint Box and Jeremy R will be holding it as always.

Cecil
 

NCBMXPRO

Monkey
Apr 22, 2005
129
1
Charlotte
Sure would be nice to get that track at the White Water Center/Catawba in Charlotte running again. That was always a big, fun race.
 

BKQuill

Turbo Monkey
Dec 19, 2004
1,016
0
Rangers Lead the Way
There is the problem.

This is The South. Grassroots is what we do well and I think its great. It should be about having fun, challenging yourself, and seeing your buddies. We are not going to take over the world of DH mtbing with 800ft mountains and 100 degree heat. I think the sooner we just think about having fun and having grassroots races, the bigger success we will be.

The best races I have ever been to where the Carter's Lake races. They were cheap and the racing was great. There wasn't a pompous atmosphere about how awesome the mountain was or whining about more practice time. We all knew it was a small hill and we just focused on riding and racing. I don't think anyone has ever had anything negative to say about those races.

You guys want a series. Great. But lets focus on rider fun and keep that as the utmost important factor. Screw City or County parks departments, screw raising money for trails, screw raising awareness for gravity parks, screw extravagant prizes, and a gazillion classes. Racing should be about you and the clock.

Hawksnest is on the right track. They gave out bourbon and walkers for prizes.

TTC is on the right track. They ask the racers what they want. Nothing fancy, just good racing.

Beech is on the right track. Simple one day races without a lot of fuss.

As for Windrock. Might I remind you. The last time we held a race there there was less than 3 expert racers, there is no way to have a beginner class, there is a $18/day permit to factor in, and the Fall Festival only draws around 60-70 participants.

However, what I do think we could well is gated racing and Super Ds.
Well said Doug!
 

milohead

Monkey
Dec 9, 2008
754
0
Johnson City, Tn
Well said Doug!
Diddo on the diddo. I go to the races not because I think I can podium (it would kick ass if I did). I go for the good times and folks there. I believe if you get caught up in trying to make this what it isn't we'll lose sight of why we ride in the first place. That is not to say I would not give all the support I could, just don't want to see you fail before you begin.

RIDE, FUN, BEER in that order.
 

brokeONE

Monkey
Feb 2, 2002
123
0
asheville,NC
The old MADHRA series was the best race series that I've seen put on. It was all about just getting out riding your bike down a hill, and hanging out afterwards. Nobody was in a race to leave the venue.
 

FCLinder

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2002
4,402
0
Greenville, South Carolina
The old MADHRA series was the best race series that I've seen put on. It was all about just getting out riding your bike down a hill, and hanging out afterwards. Nobody was in a race to leave the venue.
Thanks very much. Jeremy, Matt, Butch, Myself, and a few others worked very hard to make that happen. But what you didn't know was how much time it took out of us to make it happen. It takes a Team effort.......

Cecil
 

JacksonDrake

Chimp
Aug 3, 2010
6
0
Milton, Ga
There is the problem.

This is The South. Grassroots is what we do well and I think its great. It should be about having fun, challenging yourself, and seeing your buddies. We are not going to take over the world of DH mtbing with 800ft mountains and 100 degree heat. I think the sooner we just think about having fun and having grassroots races, the bigger success we will be.

The best races I have ever been to where the Carter's Lake races. They were cheap and the racing was great. There wasn't a pompous atmosphere about how awesome the mountain was or whining about more practice time. We all knew it was a small hill and we just focused on riding and racing. I don't think anyone has ever had anything negative to say about those races.

You guys want a series. Great. But lets focus on rider fun and keep that as the utmost important factor. Screw City or County parks departments, screw raising money for trails, screw raising awareness for gravity parks, screw extravagant prizes, and a gazillion classes. Racing should be about you and the clock.

Hawksnest is on the right track. They gave out bourbon and walkers for prizes.

TTC is on the right track. They ask the racers what they want. Nothing fancy, just good racing.

Beech is on the right track. Simple one day races without a lot of fuss.

As for Windrock. Might I remind you. The last time we held a race there there was less than 3 expert racers, there is no way to have a beginner class, there is a $18/day permit to factor in, and the Fall Festival only draws around 60-70 participants.

However, what I do think we could well is gated racing and Super Ds.
Grass roots racing? Go big or go home its racing, if your looking for less competition don't race or enter beginner
 
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JacksonDrake

Chimp
Aug 3, 2010
6
0
Milton, Ga
There is the problem.

This is The South. Grassroots is what we do well and I think its great. It should be about having fun, challenging yourself, and seeing your buddies. We are not going to take over the world of DH mtbing with 800ft mountains and 100 degree heat. I think the sooner we just think about having fun and having grassroots races, the bigger success we will be.

The best races I have ever been to where the Carter's Lake races. They were cheap and the racing was great. There wasn't a pompous atmosphere about how awesome the mountain was or whining about more practice time. We all knew it was a small hill and we just focused on riding and racing. I don't think anyone has ever had anything negative to say about those races.

You guys want a series. Great. But lets focus on rider fun and keep that as the utmost important factor. Screw City or County parks departments, screw raising money for trails, screw raising awareness for gravity parks, screw extravagant prizes, and a gazillion classes. Racing should be about you and the clock.

Hawksnest is on the right track. They gave out bourbon and walkers for prizes.

TTC is on the right track. They ask the racers what they want. Nothing fancy, just good racing.

Beech is on the right track. Simple one day races without a lot of fuss.

As for Windrock. Might I remind you. The last time we held a race there there was less than 3 expert racers, there is no way to have a beginner class, there is a $18/day permit to factor in, and the Fall Festival only draws around 60-70 participants.

However, what I do think we could well is gated racing and Super Ds.
Grass roots racing? Go big or go home its racing, if you dont want competition dont race, or race beginner, but its racing its supposed to be competitive its the only way you get faster. Not trying to attack you but just keep in mind why people race.
 

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,347
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
but its racing its supposed to be competitive its the only way you get faster. Not trying to attack you but just keep in mind why people race.
In the short 4-5 years I've been racing mountain bikes, primarily DH, I would say the majority of people actually go to have fun. DH racing in the south especially is about getting together with your friends on your overly complicated adult bicycle and riding down a hill while having as much fun as possible. Yes, there are people there to race and get faster but the majority of us just want to leave the real world for a few hours, have a few laughs, and hopefully make it to the bottom in one piece so we can share a beer with friends. If we wanted (overly)competitive racing we would all take up road biking. Hell, even some of the XC races I've been in recently are taking some of the fun out of riding.
 

DHracer1067

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2003
1,189
0
somewhere really ****ty
I think there needs to be a good combination of fun and competition to make a good race. I mean why would i show up if it wasn't fun or there were stuck up assholes swarming the place. But IMO one thing that makes the race fun is having the competition. You just gotta find the right balance of each to make a great event. id say so far the dirty bird has that aspect down great along with beech. I really couldn't think of anything to really complain about for either of the races so just keep it up and I think it could turn into an awesome series next year.
 

Metal Dude

Turbo Monkey
Apr 7, 2006
1,139
0
Smackdonough, GA
Grass roots racing? Go big or go home its racing, if you dont want competition dont race, or race beginner, but its racing its supposed to be competitive its the only way you get faster. Not trying to attack you but just keep in mind why people race.
You must not have been around long? Profro wants competition but,knows that trying to put on a series just involves too much drama in trying to get too many different ideas of what each race and a series should be about from different egos. Cecil, if you are having trouble with getting sponsors for Paris why take on doing more races?
Me thinks that the SE is traveling in the right direction doing exactly what it is doing. My opinion is to not worry about a series and just support ALL the local SE races that are trying hard to get the ball rolling. I am at a point where I am about done traveling to "bigger" races and just want to focus my support in the SE. The Series Idea would be cool and if you guys can get along and make it work, GREAT! Just seems like if individuals are making it happen why get them together and have them be able to find arguments or whatever drama to actually keep races from happening.
 

JacksonDrake

Chimp
Aug 3, 2010
6
0
Milton, Ga
im just saying that a little more competitive atmosphere is fun for me at least, not saying that we should look at anyone as a rival or enemy. The first beech race was a good example of what i think the races should be like for a south east series, decent amount of spectators, good timing, and the event was organized giving off a competitive amtmosphere.
 

BrianHudson

Chimp
Sep 26, 2009
59
0
Mobile Alabama
There is no need to worry about that series becoming some super anal thing. Its going be the same group of people you already ride and race with. I've been racing different grassroot series all my life and they have aways been fun. I've gone to races just to have fun and I'd gone to races with a win are die attitude. If you want to take it super serious thats ok, just don't expect everbody else to.
 

Metal Dude

Turbo Monkey
Apr 7, 2006
1,139
0
Smackdonough, GA
No one (was) arguing anything about the races not being or being too competitive.
It's a race! I think there are people who take it very serious and those who are there to get runs.... who cares which one you are.

It's a matter of if the SE will benefit from trying to get efforts from each race on the same page in order to help grow the races and the racers more.

My two cents was that people are doing better on their own, with putting on single events or 3 race series like Beech. Could some of us help with those efforts? SURE!
Suppose Jim puts his race on how he wants and has help, race is success with one chief and a few Indians. Try getting several tribes together and working as one? Sounds like a tougher option.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
if you dont want competition dont race, or race beginner, but its racing its supposed to be competitive its the only way you get faster. Not trying to attack you but just keep in mind why people race.
He don't know me too well do he?


To be more clear, I am more so talking about grandiose promoters or racers that want SE racing to be the second coming. If the South was going to rise again, it would have already. There are only so many Dhers here because, to be quite frank, we don't really have the mountains to grow lots of DHers. Sugar was probably the only hill that was a legit track. Carter's Lake was the first on the scene to say, yeah we got a small hill and the times will be short. We'll have as much fun along the way and just leave it at that. Hawksnest has done the same, so has Beech. Good for them. Why ruin a good track only to try and make it longer with uphills and unnecessary flat sections.

The races over the past few years have been great and I don't really see any reason to change that. I have seen a pattern in life. Its seems when things are going well, its hard to leave it alone. Inevitably someone wants to make some good great and it almost never works out.
 

tbird0216

Chimp
Dec 24, 2004
92
0
Johnson City TN
ETSU is looking to keep up a spring race each year. Although our downhill isnt too legit, we do have super fun 4x and ds tracks that everyone can enjoy. We could definitely get on for a one day three race event. Or just do ds and 4x if thats what people want.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
I like the DS and 4x event in one day. Don't worry about the DH. Racing your DS course is what dreams are made of.
 

OffCamber

Monkey
May 27, 2005
405
6
Loxahatchee, Fl
Being from south Fl. The way it is now is awesome. Are there really any open dates? Between Hawks, Beech, TTC, SS and WR weekends, I always have options for riding. It would seem with a series, the races would be consolidated with actually less DH time. But I'm all about riding and having fun.
 
I think that the point/purpose of Cecils post is getting kind of lost or overlooked. Or maybe he didn't realize what he was asking.
If all the current venues/promoters get together and agree on a point, catergory/class, prize/purse system - we can have a great series around the Southeast.
The agreement part would probably be the easiest, getting sponsors or prizes for an entire series on the East coast would probably be the hard part.
I've never even contemplated puting on a race, so I may be way off base there.

Profo - I totally dsiagree with you on the screw raising money for the trail system. That should be considered for every trail/course we race on. It costs money to build trails. Feeding the volunteers for a job well done, gas for chainsaws and weedeaters, etc. All the other stuff, yeah F'em.

Anyway

If all the venues get together and agree to a system, the grassroots feel or vibe will not go away. We don't have a national series anymore, just regional. Why can't we have a great regional series here in the SE? I think that this a great idea, even if we only get all venues together on a systematic level. We could set an entry fee and adjust it for the lift or shuttled venues. Some money can go to the venue, some can go to the trail maintenance, some to the purse, and so on.

From what I've observed form the last 10 or 12 years of racing is that the local pros really don't care about how big the purse is, they just really appreciate it. Maybe we don't need $500 for first and on down. Being said, I would assume that guys like Herndon; who have a whole team, probably put that money right back into the team and can really use it. And that's great for them. I have no problem with that. I think it's great when I see Chris or Doug Or Garett in a magazine and I can say "Yeah, I race with those guys." It takes a ****on of money to have a team.

When I started racing, I figured i would be fast. Well, 12 years on I'm not. I work at it and I do my best, but I'll never be 'pro' fast, and I'm happy with that. I like the fact that I got into this sport and have made many freinds and that i even know some pros in the sport. Compared to XC racing, I like the fact that I can ask for advice on a section form the guys in the classes above me and I can get it. We all work together to help each other be better. In Xc, it's all like 'who the f_ck are you' P1ss on that.

I'd rather have a horrible race than a great day at work...And I don't care where it is.
 

roperacer

Monkey
Aug 17, 2009
320
0
chattanooga tn
i will say this much, the t.t.c. will prolly never have more than 75 racers at a race,,, our crew cant handle a big race,and we dont even want to handle a big race,no matter the money or fun factor invovled. it is just to much work for shuttles, and timing ,and all that for us to even think of handling. not to mention the insurance only covers 75 or so racers i think.
BUT! the idea of someone else coming in and running a race as part of a southern series gives me and all the guys a chance to race, take photo or videos, and not work our asses off trying to prepare. so my ears would be open if someone was wanting to bring 1 race a year in.

aslo,,, no word on the new race date,,,waiting to hear from insurance company,we are shooting for november.
 
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bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Having a series is easy:
Step 1: All the promoters say "We're in" that want in.
Step 2: All events go by USAC
Step 3: One person with a laptop and Excel adds up the points from each race
Step 4: At season end Overall Winners get a bigger than average trophy

Total cost to everybody: Few hundred bucks for the end of year trophies. Anything else at this point is stupid.

Maybe somebody could not worry about screwing it up by going too huge regionally, and worry about going simpler on his own local event and spend his time making something happen he promised the ridership. Instead of wasting your time talking about being the premiere anything, he should suck up his FOOLISH PRIDE and put on a grassroots event he already had planned. :rolleyes:
 

FCLinder

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2002
4,402
0
Greenville, South Carolina
Maybe somebody could not worry about screwing it up by going too huge regionally, and worry about going simpler on his own local event and spend his time making something happen he promised the ridership. Instead of wasting your time talking about being the premiere anything, he should suck up his FOOLISH PRIDE and put on a grassroots event he already had planned. :rolleyes:
I could stoop down to your level but I am not going too……. As for Pride, I know the real people that care on here know it's not about Pride for me and know that the real reasons you talk all this crap about me is because of jealousy. If you put all the focus you put into bad mouthing me to everyone due to this jealousy, you could have done something nice for the racers too.

As for this thread, it's not about you or me, so don't try to make it. If you don't have something positive to say, want to help, or get along with those that are trying to do something then don't post here.

Cecil
 
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Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop


Jeez, ya'll STFU.
Nobody want to hear this old crap over and over.

We got a new generation coming through now.
A positive scene with more races popping up constantly.
And a lot of new young talent coming up.
Maybe these new guys will actually work together to improve the
race scene by learning from the past mistakes.
Lord knows there has been plenty.....
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
I contributed.

Read the first half of my post. It's all very simple. You should see the positive in what I said, not the negative.:thumb:

Until you can make your own grassroots race work, you can't advise an entire reqion about what to do. Name anything you have I'd need to be jealous of? :crazy:

And as Jeremy said, there is a new breed who are dedicated to digging and making events happen, so let's let them get it right. If they need our advise, they'll ask for it.

My only word of advise to the new breed is to stop their own youthful bickering and back biting. It bothered me that diggers were busting on their fellow riders tracks without even bothering to race it. History will be doomed to repeat itself if that continues.:think:
 

FCLinder

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2002
4,402
0
Greenville, South Carolina
Jeez, ya'll STFU.
Nobody want to hear this old crap over and over.

We got a new generation coming through now.
A positive scene with more races popping up constantly.
And a lot of new young talent coming up.
Maybe these new guys will actually work together to improve the
race scene by learning from the past mistakes.
Lord knows there has been plenty.....
I 100% agree!!!!
 

ChrisKring

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,399
6
Grand Haven, MI
Just my input as a northern, the best thing that the organizers can do is to get together and set a schedule that doesn't have overlapping races and back to back race weekends. If you want to step up from there, work to promote each others events. As Doug said, there is a limited pool of racers.

We went from having about 10 races a year in Michigan to 1. Mainly due to the racers getting too spread out over too many events. This resulted in promoters getting burnt out and loosing money.

Windrock: I was at the last race and I'm in for another even if it is just a couple of walkie talkies and a stop watch. In fact, that would be better.
 

Guard

Monkey
Apr 21, 2004
486
0
Wilkes "By God" County
As stated above, the event promoters are doing a great job this year and the simplist thing is to keep doing it. That said a series would be pretty cool and it doesn't have to be anything over the top. Here's what I'd recommend which is basically what Butch laid out:

  • Promoters coordinate dates
  • Promoters coordinate class structure
  • All events USAC
  • Other than the above, promoters keep doing what you're doing
  • Have one person in charge of maintaining points (ideally not a promoter since they have enough to do. Who ever is pulling the series together would work best "series promoter")
  • Series promoter acquires series sponsor(s) to cover cost of year end trophies...no swag just pure & simple trophies

When we did the King of Lake series all we gave out was medals at the races and trophies for the overalls. Prizes are forgotten in a week or less but having a decent size trophy on the mantle will last and last.
 
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tgaines72

Monkey
Jul 28, 2002
131
0
Knoxville, TN
In the short 4-5 years I've been racing mountain bikes, primarily DH, I would say the majority of people actually go to have fun. DH racing in the south especially is about getting together with your friends on your overly complicated adult bicycle and riding down a hill while having as much fun as possible. Yes, there are people there to race and get faster but the majority of us just want to leave the real world for a few hours, have a few laughs, and hopefully make it to the bottom in one piece so we can share a beer with friends. If we wanted (overly)competitive racing we would all take up road biking. Hell, even some of the XC races I've been in recently are taking some of the fun out of riding.
I agree with this guy. :thumb:


Let me know how I can help with a Windrock race. I'm sure I can round up some beer and food sponsors!