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how the hell does anyone get hired these days?!

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Well as someone who does hire from time to time, I would not necessarily hold it against a candidate if they took some time off to live it up. Usually you can tell in the interview if the guy is a dumb-ass or not. (I stress USUALLY).

And the answer of "International Studies" doesn't really answer my question.....because what the hell is "International Studies"? Do you go work at the UN or something with that? I'm not trying to be a jerk....I am truly curious to know what it means.
 

Mr Jones

Turbo Monkey
Nov 12, 2007
1,475
0
Ask what the job pays and say that you'll work for 10% less.
And why should that impress someone that's hiring? Keep it real.
I am. How do you think I scored my kushy job as a materials consultant? Used to work for Northrop Grumman. Got tired of big business office politics and went to a small/medium industrial fabrication company. I went to HR, showed my resume, to which they immediately said that I was over qualified for the position. I responded, "I know. But I'll work for 10% less than what you're offering" (which was 20% less than what I was making at NG)
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,134
Portland, OR
And the answer of "International Studies" doesn't really answer my question.....because what the hell is "International Studies"? Do you go work at the UN or something with that? I'm not trying to be a jerk....I am truly curious to know what it means.
"You want fries with that?"
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
Are you serious? So does that mean you're not a good employee because you're passionate about cycling?
No, but it might mean that the applicant isn't ready for a career and would be better suited to a job. As I said, gaps in employment need to be researched and taken into consideration.

I am passionate about biking but its not how I make money, its how i spend it. :)
 

dexterq20

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2003
3,442
1
NorCal
And the answer of "International Studies" doesn't really answer my question.....because what the hell is "International Studies"? Do you go work at the UN or something with that? I'm not trying to be a jerk....I am truly curious to know what it means.
"You want fries with that?"
Pretty much. Except that I also majored in German, so at least I can go work at a McDonald's in Germany.

Seriously though, right now it feels like fast food might actually be a viable option. Ok not really, but still, my college degrees have literally NOTHING to do with a career path.

Worst case scenario: I move back to Utah once the snow starts to fall. But then Serial Midget won't hire me in the future because I like to have fun... damn.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Um....that chip on your shoulder might be messing with you posture in your interviews. Could be part of your problem......
I don't think there's a chip. I do, however, think it might have something to do with SM valuing shoe sales over enjoyment of life.

It's difficult for me to fathom certain people feeling passionate enough about their career paths to forsake happiness. Most of the careers I've thought about have been decidedly "non-traditional" for this very reason.

Just my anecdotal experience, but 3 out of 4 people I've met in the professional white-collar office world hate their jobs/careers and it makes them miserable. Of course, a place like RM is chock full of those who fit into the second paragraph.
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,187
13,447
directly above the center of the earth
I hired everyone in the company and I've fired a few along the way

My thoughts.

If you are invited to a face to face interview I've already decided from your resume that you have the potential to do the job, now you need to sell yourself to me.

Show up early by at least 10 minutes. If I keep you waiting well thats ok, however if you make me waste my time waiting for you to show up, you will not get the job.

Dress well, when setting up the interview ask what the company dress code is. Never show up in less than Business Casual. You show up looking less than professional you don't get the job. On a side note don't come in smelling like cigarettes [breath or clothes], with bad breath [use a breath mint], or unshaven.

Look me in the eyes when talking to me, have a firm handshake, stay focused on telling me why you want the job. Be enthusiastic but not over the top.

Know your resume by heart, be able to tell me what you did and why you left. Do not bad mouth previous employers if you do I will not hire you. Convey to me that you will do what ever it takes to help my company be a success.

Finally , ASK FOR THE JOB. If you don't ask me for the position at the end of the interview chances are I will not hire you.
 
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blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Somewhere along the line in society there has been a disconnect between getting an education and career preparation. So many come out of college so full of worldly knowledge yet completely lacking in any sort of real life job skills:think:

welcome to Burger King
There was a recent study published that showed while science and technical degrees gave immediate financial benefits to their recipients upon graduation, liberal arts degree recipients eventually caught up to and surpassed the former in terms of earning power.

Trying to hunt it down...
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
I don't think there's a chip. I do, however, think it might have something to do with SM valuing shoe sales over enjoyment of life.
I think you're wrong there - I have enjoyed every job I've ever had, I have never posted anything on the monkey that would suggest otherwise. I started working at an early age (13) and have always viewed a employment as a privilege.

5 years ago I found myself in a situation that demanded immediate employment after taking a few years off to "enjoy" life and recover from a divorce. I accepted a job selling shoes for JCPenney to fill the gap while I continued to look for a "better' job. I was in my late 30s and had never worked retail before - many of the guys I rode with gave me lots of ****, I got the Al Bundy title but didn't care because I liked the job and made the best of it.

Today, 5 years later, I have been a JCPenney store manager for 2 years, literally working my way up from the bottom, I've enjoyed the ride. :)
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,187
13,447
directly above the center of the earth
There was a recent study published that showed while science and technical degrees gave immediate financial benefits to their recipients upon graduation, liberal arts degree recipients eventually caught up to and surpassed the former in terms of earning power.

Trying to hunt it down...

The type of major is immaterial. I am referring to having an end goal, a vision of how what you are learning can be applied to having a career.
 

dexterq20

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2003
3,442
1
NorCal
What is it you have to offer? Not being able to find employment has more to do with the applicant than the employer.
My goal is an entry-level sales, marketing, or product development position with a company in either the bike or ski industry. With 8 years of bike and ski shop experience under my belt (including several management roles), to me it seems like a logical progression. I don't really wanna keep turning wrenches and making $13/hr for the rest of my life.
 

5150dhbiker

Turbo Monkey
Nov 5, 2007
1,200
0
Santa Barbara, CA
I've been trying to find a different job for a while. Currently applying at Atlantic Aviation.
But ya, most of my friends can't find jobs right now...and a lot of them have masters degrees.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
PM James for tips - he should know quite a bit about the business.

My goal is an entry-level sales, marketing, or product development position with a company in either the bike or ski industry. With 8 years of bike and ski shop experience under my belt (including several management roles), to me it seems like a logical progression. I don't really wanna keep turning wrenches and making $13/hr for the rest of my life.
 

FlyinPolack

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
371
0
Instead of listing your edufacation as a "liberal arts" degree, you should just tell the truth & refer to it as "my time in the 13th grade". The guy reviewing your resume will like your honesty & hire you because you are "spunky". :thumb:
 

Austin Bike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
1,558
0
Duh, Austin
On a side note don't come in smelling like cigarettes
I have so little tolerance for smokers at work. I used to manage sales people back in the day who were on phone queues. It was so bad with some of them that I actually clocked it once. I had a woman who went out for a 10 minute smoke every hour. It took her ~2 minutes to get out and ~2 minutes to get back into a work situation. That meant ~14 minutes out of every hour was consumed, which is basically 1/4 of the day.

I finally had to tell her that she needed to log out, get her stuff, go smoke, then come back in, put her stuff away and log back into the pay system because she we ripping off the company. She thought I was being a jerk until she got her next paycheck and it was 25% lower than she was expecting.

If you want to kill yourself, that's your own choice, but don't make all of your co-workers carry the weight while you socialize for a quarter of the day.

She got the message and started smoking before work, at lunch and after work which was fine with me.
 

blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,773
122
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
I went from making almost 6 figures as a senior graphic designer in southern california, got laid off, took about a year to ride my bike and clear my head from a high stress job. Moved to Ohio in a city thats heavily art driven, yet without many art field jobs. So I did what I have to. Took a field engineer position at 1/2 the pay as a designer.
luckily for me I have minimal bills and a severly lower cost of living so things arent so bad, but damn do I want to get back into the design field.

uuugggh
 

KavuRider

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2006
2,565
4
CT
I hired everyone in the company and I've fired a few along the way

My thoughts.

If you are invited to a face to face interview I've already decided from your resume that you have the potential to do the job, now you need to sell yourself to me.

Show up early by at least 10 minutes. If I keep you waiting well thats ok, however if you make me waste my time waiting for you to show up, you will not get the job.

Dress well, when setting up the interview ask what the company dress code is. Never show up in less than Business Casual. You show up looking less than professional you don't get the job. On a side note don't come in smelling like cigarettes [breath or clothes], with bad breath [use a breath mint], or unshaven.

Look me in the eyes when talking to me, have a firm handshake, stay focused on telling me why you want the job. Be enthusiastic but not over the top.

Know your resume by heart, be able to tell me what you did and why you left. Do not bad mouth previous employers if you do I will not hire you. Convey to me that you will do what ever it takes to help my company be a success.

Finally , ASK FOR THE JOB. If you don't ask me for the position at the end of the interview chances are I will not hire you.
Granted, I'm not great at interviews. However...

We were going to fill a position at my current job. I saw all the applicants that came in. One guy followed everything you said. The next guy...he came in dressed in jeans and a t-shirt. Then...the part that makes me just shake my head; so I had him fill out an app while he waited for the owner to finish up a business call. The guy stops, looks at me and asks "so what do you guys do here?", with a straight face. Took me a second to respond, because I thought he had to be joking. Nope...

On the other hand...I was applying for jobs, always came in dressed nice, firm handshake, resume/app, etc. Was rejected from everything, even Trader Joes as a stockboy. Then the next week I was hired at Wells Fargo making a salary. So you never know, just have to keep at it.
 

1453

Monkey
On the other hand...I was applying for jobs, always came in dressed nice, firm handshake, resume/app, etc. Was rejected from everything, even Trader Joes as a stockboy. Then the next week I was hired at Wells Fargo making a salary. So you never know, just have to keep at it.
Yep.

I hunted for a job for about 8 months now, after I got my MS from the Engineering school from a department that is ranked 2nd in the country. Got my ass kicked but learned a lot and a degree.

I just got an offer for a job doing exactly what I was trained for that is just 30 minutes away from my parent's house.:weee:

What got me through was a wife that pays the bills.:thumb:

But in that 8 months I had zero interviews, even though most of the 150+ jobs I applied to called for just a BS.

You just never know.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
From teh Wall Street Journal:

Longer-term trends are at play. For one, the U.S. education system hasn't been producing enough people with the highly specialized skills that many companies, particularly in manufacturing, require to keep driving productivity gains. "There are a lot of people who are unemployed, but those aren't necessarily the people employers are looking for," says David Autor, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Linky
 

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
To be honest, when I'm hiring, (for engineers), anyone with Master's goes to the bottom of the pile. PhD's go in the recycle bin.
you keep bringing this up. i think YOU sir have a chip on your shoulder. maybe you applied to graduate school and got rejected? so you are gonna stick it to the man by rejecting everyone a graduate school produces? clever ploy cept for the fact that those people will just find a better job someone else and get the unforseen benefit of not having to work with mmike
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
you keep bringing this up. i think YOU sir have a chip on your shoulder. maybe you applied to graduate school and got rejected? so you are gonna stick it to the man by rejecting everyone a graduate school produces? clever ploy cept for the fact that those people will just find a better job someone else and get the unforseen benefit of not having to work with mmike
Um. no.I never applied to grad school. No interest.

And in fact the last guy I hired actually HAS a masters. And while he is a great theoretical mind, he is staggeringly impractical. He's getting better. But tried to design oblong bolts because an existing part we have has slotted holes to facilitate installation. He also called a wrench "a tool for torquing".

I've said before that we are a decidedly "low tech" company. We provide solutions for guys out in the bush fighting fires and flying to oil rigs etc. The need simple, practical, easily repairable stuff. People with masters degrees tend to lack basic "how's this REALLY going to go together" thinking. And that is not only my opinion.

Sounds to me like you have a chip on your shoulder that you spent all that time to get the Masters and were out of work for 8 months, despite your lofty credentials.

My shoulders are decidedly chip-free.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,005
Seattle
But tried to design oblong bolts because an existing part we have has slotted holes to facilitate installation.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Seriously? That's spectacular.


I know a guy who works for the Chemical Engineering Dpt. at a very prestigious engineering school (no prizes for guessing which ;)) who's got some epic stories of people there being meatheads.

He designs and builds research equipment. One prof came in with a 10mm square silicon wafer, and wanted him to cut it into 3 10x3.33333mm rectangles. With that many significant figures. A grad student wanted him to make an airtight glass box for something, and when asked how he planned to hold it together, he suggested nails. Etc.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
The difference between those with just a BS and those with an MS/PhD is astonishingly apparent. My company has about 20 mech/elec/controls engineers, maybe 6-7 of them have an MS or PhD. You know who gets 95% of the actual work done? The BS guys. The higher education guys tend to overcomplicate and overdesign things just for the sake of coming across as super intelligent and an ingenious designer. Truth is, a majority of the things they have done could have been done just as efficiently with a little less "flair" and a lot less time/money/iterations.

When I told my boss I was thinking of getting my masters in engineering, he replied "what would you rather have, a piece of paper with your name and "MS in Engineering" on it, or the ability to actually design stuff?"

Needless to say I'm sticking with the BS. Now becoming a PE on the other hand, that has some merit.
 
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MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
for realz, yo

(In aviation, P. eng doesn't have too much meaning. You can't bless something as airworthy with a P.Eng. To be honest, I've not gotten mine. On the my list of things I really should do....just because.....just haven't gotten around to it though.)
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Advanced degrees are of course required.....just in the appropriate place. Think tanks. They come up with new fun technologies. It's then up to us lowly types to find useful things to do with it in practical ways.

We have a couple of projects that would be really cool to try...and would likely be good PhD thesis material. But they are cost prohibitive to develop and would never sell in the market....again due to cost. But they could be a fantastic advancement in technology. Maybe one day.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
And then you get guys like Phil Condit.....former CEO of Boeing (back in my day there)

He was born in Berkeley, California, and became an aviation enthusiast at an early age, earning his pilot's certificate at age 18. He earned a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering from the University of California, Berkeley in 1963, a master's degree in aeronautical engineering from Princeton University in 1965, a Master's in Management from the Sloan Fellows program of the MIT Sloan School of Management in 1975, and a Ph.D. in engineering from the Science University of Tokyo. (He is the first westerner to earn such a degree from that institution.)
 

Prettym1k3

Turbo Monkey
Aug 21, 2006
2,864
0
In your pants
It's just simply a tough market out there.

My wife had 4 interviews with a big high tech firm in the Bay Area. She's currently employed with a big high tech, and she made it down to the final two. They chose the internal employee. She was bummed.

So she gets a call from a friend at a local hospital who says, "We need you in ASAP for an interview." Wife takes time off work. Wife drives 30 minutes to interview. 5 minutes from arrival gets told, "Interview got pushed back over an hour. Is that okay?" Wife says yes. Then 15 minutes before her interview time, doctor walks out with the person getting interviewed before my wife and says, "We're hiring her." My wife didn't even get an interview.

Managers, particularly the ones that do the hiring, have no clue what they're doing anymore.
 

Quo Fan

don't make me kick your ass
When I was fixing things for a living, I always complained that the people designing the equipment never had to fix the equipment. Parts the engineers said would never have to be replaced usually ended up being the part the failed the most, and was always the hardest to replace.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,563
24,182
media blackout
I hired everyone in the company and I've fired a few along the way

My thoughts.

If you are invited to a face to face interview I've already decided from your resume that you have the potential to do the job, now you need to sell yourself to me.

Show up early by at least 10 minutes. If I keep you waiting well thats ok, however if you make me waste my time waiting for you to show up, you will not get the job.

Dress well, when setting up the interview ask what the company dress code is. Never show up in less than Business Casual. You show up looking less than professional you don't get the job. On a side note don't come in smelling like cigarettes [breath or clothes], with bad breath [use a breath mint], or unshaven.

Look me in the eyes when talking to me, have a firm handshake, stay focused on telling me why you want the job. Be enthusiastic but not over the top.

Know your resume by heart, be able to tell me what you did and why you left. Do not bad mouth previous employers if you do I will not hire you. Convey to me that you will do what ever it takes to help my company be a success.

Finally , ASK FOR THE JOB. If you don't ask me for the position at the end of the interview chances are I will not hire you.
I like to show up reeking of weed wearing a shirt that says "F*CK DA POLICE"