Going "off the trail" in Moab is a big faux pas........
But on the other hand, 10000 rednecks CAN'T be wrong...
California 200: 8 people dead
- Thread starter sanjuro
- Start date
But on the other hand, 10000 rednecks CAN'T be wrong...
Actually we were in Kansas a few weeks later. (US tour) Saw roofs blown off of buildings and cars flipped over in ditches. Severe thunderstorm went by 5 minutes ahead of us across the highway. We were ALL freaked out.
Probably the most intelligent thing said in this thread.
Totally dude. Fvck the ocean too its just water.
Really? Really??? F*cking really????? I agree with you on a lot of sh*t....but f*cking REALLY!!!????!!!!
Dude...scale, plz....
When is the last time you saw the desert circulating itself from one end to the other?
Agreed...I never meant to compare them like that...it was just meant to illustrate the point that since he is on a mountain biking site and I assumed he bikes. There are plenty of people that wouldn't hesitate to sign a petition to never allow a single mountain bikes on trails again because of their impact. Bikes obviously don't have the impact vehicles do....but like what what stated above, the impact of vehicles and even the whole off-roading community is minuscule compared to the area.
Completely irrelevant. This should get you started...
vehicle damage desert vegetation - Google Search
**Warning Foul Language**
Nothing personal peeps but this might stir up some ****...
Why is everybody so concerned about the fukking planet?
Its not like were gonna kill it by doing a little rally racing in a fukkin desert.
If were leaving a mark on the planet its gonna be because of heavy industry, housing and infrastructure.
The planet doesnt even need any "saving", like a wise man once said; "Were not concerned about the planet, were concerned about having a nice environment for ourselves to live in!".
The planet is gonna do fine without us and will be there for billions of years after were gone.
Chill the **** out and let people have some fun doing what they like.
Its not like you driving your bike to work or having solar panels on your house is gonna make a fukking difference anyways except for giving you a little peace of mind...
Didnt mean to offend anyone, I even kinda like hippies.
Rant over
Nothing personal peeps but this might stir up some ****...
Why is everybody so concerned about the fukking planet?
Its not like were gonna kill it by doing a little rally racing in a fukkin desert.
If were leaving a mark on the planet its gonna be because of heavy industry, housing and infrastructure.
The planet doesnt even need any "saving", like a wise man once said; "Were not concerned about the planet, were concerned about having a nice environment for ourselves to live in!".
The planet is gonna do fine without us and will be there for billions of years after were gone.
Chill the **** out and let people have some fun doing what they like.
Its not like you driving your bike to work or having solar panels on your house is gonna make a fukking difference anyways except for giving you a little peace of mind...
Didnt mean to offend anyone, I even kinda like hippies.
Rant over
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+rep for the Carlin video...
Damn hippies.
Just for all the crap that this has started...I just might have to go destroy the planet this weekend by riding my motorcycle on the delicate sand of the desert. I might even run over a plant while I'm out there but God forbid I run over a beetle or some bug, the world might blow up.
Just for all the crap that this has started...I just might have to go destroy the planet this weekend by riding my motorcycle on the delicate sand of the desert. I might even run over a plant while I'm out there but God forbid I run over a beetle or some bug, the world might blow up.
ill do a burnout and give the world a smell of Michelin rubber.
This is pretty sad. I had no idea that there were so many careless, selfish people on here. You would think that being mountain bikers you guys would have a little more care for the environment...
FTW!**Warning Foul Language**
Nothing personal peeps but this might stir up some ****...
Why is everybody so concerned about the fukking planet?
Its not like were gonna kill it by doing a little rally racing in a fukkin desert.
If were leaving a mark on the planet its gonna be because of heavy industry, housing and infrastructure.
The planet doesnt even need any "saving", like a wise man once said; "Were not concerned about the planet, were concerned about having a nice environment for ourselves to live in!".
The planet is gonna do fine without us and will be there for billions of years after were gone.
Chill the **** out and let people have some fun doing what they like.
Its not like you driving your bike to work or having solar panels on your house is gonna make a fukking difference anyways except for giving you a little peace of mind...
Didnt mean to offend anyone, I even kinda like hippies.
Rant over
<vid removed>
It's not that I don't care about the enviroment but think about this.
I only ride in areas designated for riding, tell me what is wrong with that? There is a reason those parts of the desert/sierras and other places were set aside for us. Drive through the desert sometime and see how little of it is actually being used by us. I guarentee you'll only see a few spots with a bunch of RV's and trucks with motorcycles pulled out there.
It's really not as bad as some people make it out to be. My parents are really into doing what's best for the enviroment but they realize it gets a little crazy at some points. Hell, they have fuel efficent cars but also have an airplane that is not while their son (me) drives a truck that gets 10MPG.
Thank you. Someone seriously just asked why we're concerned about the planet. Wow.
Talk about short-sighted selfishness. We're on a path that must be changed, even if it takes one person at a time. And call me a hippy, but uh, yeah, if lots of people ride bikes and use solar, it WILL make a difference. Sure, the planet will be here - it's just won't be a very fun place to live.
What's also really sad is that Carlin is spinning is his grave because you completely missed the genius of his rants.
Well the thing is that were on a wrong path but as long as the industrial forces dont change, we arent gonna make a difference... And there is no way they are gonna change and even if they do its too late. In fact we were allready too late to save the planet before we knew there was anything wrong with it and the only thing that will probably do any good now is thinking of ways to counter the effects, not ways to reduce emissions...
I honestly dont think that this stuff is gonna be problem because theres waaaay bigger things going on that will wipe us of the face of the earth before a bunch of rally cars will make even the smallest difference.
We might as well enjoy our lives for the short insignificant period of time were here...
And I dont know Carlin other then what Ive seen on some talk shows and from his work as a comedian, but please enlighten me about what you just said, I seriously like to know because I think he means every word of what he said in that link.
This also has nothing to do with short sighte selfishness, in fact, wanting to save the planet for your own good is more selfish then letting it be in peace without the parasite that is called the human race.
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Well done Burly....Well done......
Please, I never said anything about saving the planet for my own good. It takes generations and I'll be long gone. It's selfish to use the limited resources during your lifetime and screw over those that might come later.
Yes, we ARE parasites. But we can be less parasitic if we make some changes.
And spare us your argument that its ok to shred the landscape for fun because in the end "mother earth" will be better off without us. Even if it may be true on some macro, cosmic level, it's not the reason you fire up the buggy and you know it.
I "fire up" my motorcycle purely for fun and don't really care if it shreads the sand and rocks in the areas that we are allowed to ride. People riding outside designated areas are stupid and careless but those of us who follow the rules at least have some interest in keeping the planet nice.
I'm not saying we should turn the entire wilderness in OHV land.
But I have no idea if this course was on a heavily used dirt road or on Robert Redford's private nature reserve.
What I don't want to happen is a bunch of hippie environmentalists who don't give a damn that 8 people died to use this to tell me where I ride.
When it comes to the trails I use, I know EXACTLY what my impact is and I repair the damage or prevent it from happening.
I can't say the organizers of the California 200 are as insightful as myself, OGRipper, or the trail organizations which we both belong to. But if left to a bunch of dirty hippies, the next thing is that anything with rubber tires will be banned from nature.
But I have no idea if this course was on a heavily used dirt road or on Robert Redford's private nature reserve.
What I don't want to happen is a bunch of hippie environmentalists who don't give a damn that 8 people died to use this to tell me where I ride.
When it comes to the trails I use, I know EXACTLY what my impact is and I repair the damage or prevent it from happening.
I can't say the organizers of the California 200 are as insightful as myself, OGRipper, or the trail organizations which we both belong to. But if left to a bunch of dirty hippies, the next thing is that anything with rubber tires will be banned from nature.
I have no problem with someone tearing the earth up...as long as its their own piece of it. You want to play in sh!t? Play in your own. That might be easy for someone to say if they live in the middle of undeveloped-nowhere. Not so much for most of us who live in populated areas.
And some of you are older....have kids?
And some of you are older....have kids?
Precisely.
As someone who races mountainbikes, dirtbikes, Off-road vehicles, motorcycles then goes backpacking in the Sierras the next weekend, this is a pretty jacked up deal. Some thoughts tho:
-8 people died
-This event will forever impact off-road racing AND OHV access in Cali (I was to race the next race in said series, it has been cancelled due to this event)
-It is a miracle something like this has never happened before (You Tube:San Felipe ZOO ROAD jump, Ojos Negros Jump, Borrego jump) in my opinion it should have happened many times before.
-It is impossible to regulate a crowd, unless the course is closed.
-As far as the sport being wasteful, stupid, ect...Those comments are dismissible. Who the he!! are you to judge what is correct?
-The OHV access B.S is strictly political.
-Both sides are to blame for the BS. Just like any other "access" debate./
-8 people died
-This event will forever impact off-road racing AND OHV access in Cali (I was to race the next race in said series, it has been cancelled due to this event)
-It is a miracle something like this has never happened before (You Tube:San Felipe ZOO ROAD jump, Ojos Negros Jump, Borrego jump) in my opinion it should have happened many times before.
-It is impossible to regulate a crowd, unless the course is closed.
-As far as the sport being wasteful, stupid, ect...Those comments are dismissible. Who the he!! are you to judge what is correct?
-The OHV access B.S is strictly political.
-Both sides are to blame for the BS. Just like any other "access" debate./
Save the planet. Kill yourself.
EDIT: Perhaps that is a bit absurd, but it is the answer if we take these arguments to the extreme. Denying access of any group(s) to deserts, forests, coasts, etc. is an extreme measure and as such should only be used in extreme cases. There are some resources that we need to protect at this level. However, not all nature falls into this category.
Jumping directions for a moment, we need to consider the implications of successful of OHV bans. To enact initial legislation to get public lands closed to any group is a large investment of time and money. However, once the process has been initiated -the precedent set- it becomes much easier to ban access to other groups. This means that just because an area is deemed too sensitive to vehicular traffic, does not mean that in five years someone won't deem it too sensitive for bike traffic and finally foot traffic.
Do we really want to limit access of natural lands and waters only to their government appointed guardians? Not me!
What can we do? Educate ourselves. Realize that there are sensitive areas and there are stable areas. In much the same way that there are sensible OHV users (and mtb-ers) as well as morons who live for the loud-pedal (skidiots in the mtb world). We need to be able to distinguish between the opposite poles of these two very inhomogeneous groups and the many shades of gray in between. Then we need to react to each accordingly, be it the guy who wanders off track due to lack of understanding the implications or the flora that is disappearing from an area as a result of something completely unrelated to human influences.
I would like to be able to recreate in the desert, mtns, etc. I hope my kids and their kids can too. Closing access at random because of incidents that are not environmentally relevant is not the answer. Tearing hell-bent through the crypto-biotic soils of Moab is also not the answer.
For the record, I sure hope desert racing is not done for. I have never seen one and I sure hope to someday see the Cali 200 or the KOH finals...from a safe distance. I also like to enjoy the wilderness without vehicles, which is pretty easy if you take the time to plan accordingly and realize that you have to share the planet.
Jeebus, Burly sure gave the pot a good stir.
EDIT: Perhaps that is a bit absurd, but it is the answer if we take these arguments to the extreme. Denying access of any group(s) to deserts, forests, coasts, etc. is an extreme measure and as such should only be used in extreme cases. There are some resources that we need to protect at this level. However, not all nature falls into this category.
Jumping directions for a moment, we need to consider the implications of successful of OHV bans. To enact initial legislation to get public lands closed to any group is a large investment of time and money. However, once the process has been initiated -the precedent set- it becomes much easier to ban access to other groups. This means that just because an area is deemed too sensitive to vehicular traffic, does not mean that in five years someone won't deem it too sensitive for bike traffic and finally foot traffic.
Do we really want to limit access of natural lands and waters only to their government appointed guardians? Not me!
What can we do? Educate ourselves. Realize that there are sensitive areas and there are stable areas. In much the same way that there are sensible OHV users (and mtb-ers) as well as morons who live for the loud-pedal (skidiots in the mtb world). We need to be able to distinguish between the opposite poles of these two very inhomogeneous groups and the many shades of gray in between. Then we need to react to each accordingly, be it the guy who wanders off track due to lack of understanding the implications or the flora that is disappearing from an area as a result of something completely unrelated to human influences.
I would like to be able to recreate in the desert, mtns, etc. I hope my kids and their kids can too. Closing access at random because of incidents that are not environmentally relevant is not the answer. Tearing hell-bent through the crypto-biotic soils of Moab is also not the answer.
For the record, I sure hope desert racing is not done for. I have never seen one and I sure hope to someday see the Cali 200 or the KOH finals...from a safe distance. I also like to enjoy the wilderness without vehicles, which is pretty easy if you take the time to plan accordingly and realize that you have to share the planet.
Jeebus, Burly sure gave the pot a good stir.
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at the people who are apparently under the impression that the deserts of the world are endless dunes of lifeless sand.
My wife and I rented quads in the Oregon dunes once many years back.....I feel shame.
That said, most of the life that may have once existied in an ORV park is likely long dead by now. So....PUNCH IT DUDE!
That said, most of the life that may have once existied in an ORV park is likely long dead by now. So....PUNCH IT DUDE!
Clearly they're not, but the places where there are dunes are pretty lifeless, even in areas closed to motorized vehicles.
The "rest" of the desert is also an extremely diverse ecosystem, but there are many areas that are also pretty devoid of life. What I've always thought was funny are the numerous bombing ranges and test areas the US military has that no one ever seems to have a problem with, and they're blowing stuff up. There's way more land set aside for them by the US government than there is set aside for OHVs in the desert.
When designated OHV areas are already so few and far between in places that are already extremely devoid of life, do we really need to close them? And how exactly does the deaths of 8 people standing too close to a race course correlate to the need to close recreation areas? If people are killed in a air race accident does that mean we close airports? When spectators were killed by a freak nascar accident did we start closing local race tracks?
As someone who goes to hike Palm Canyon Borrego Springs and has rode his bike from Anza to Borrego through coyote canyon one day and four wheeled at superstition and ocotillo wells the next day, I do get to see both faces of the desert with and without motor vehicles and I can honestly say I would be sad to see either areas disappear when it looks like they can both exist together with no real harm to the other.
you'd actually be surprised at the things you need to swerve around/brake for in an ORV park in the desert.
We know a little about it.
We do not know "EXACTLY what my impact is".
That's not going to stop me from riding my bicycle or driving my car. It has stopped me from eating most seafood.