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Rims for DH wheelset

nybike1971

nybike1971

Chimp
Nov 16, 2006
67
0
Niskayuna, NY
I am looking to build a reasonably durable and lightweight wheelset for general purpose DH: not full-on hucking, but not race-day only either.

About me: I am 165lbs out of the shower, 175lbs ready to ride. I am sometimes too slow to hit the sweet spot of a transition on big boy race courses, but too stupid to roll it or go around it. Also, I mostly ride at places like Plattekill where flattish landings are par for the course. A soft rim that flat spots easily is not going to cut it.

I am currently using a pair of Azonic Outlaw wheels but the rear hub is developing a bunch of play. Azonic is helping me figure out the problem, but I'd like to have the Outlaw become the backup wheelset. I am running the Azonic wheelset tubeless with yellow tape and a Stan's freeride rim strip without a hitch. My usual tires are MAxxis Minion DHF 2-ply or High roller 2-ply 2.5 or 2.7. These tires seal up beautifully on the converted Azonic rims and never burp. I am not planning on using UST tires on the new rims, but I would like to be able to run Maxxis 2-ply tires tubeless.

Is Azonic still using the Alex Supra D rim in their wheelset?

I compiled a list of rims with weight and internal/external rim width. I would be interested in hearing If you guys have had good or bad experiences with any of these rims and if you have a recommendation for what would suit me needs the best.

Here we go:

Rim Internal width External width Published weight

Alex Supra D 25mm 31.7mm 588g
Atomlab Pimplite 22.4mm 31.5mm 630g
DT Swiss FR600 25mm 31.8mm 600g
Mavic EX721 21mm --- 590g
Mavic EX823 UST 23mm --- 655g (+eyelets)
Mavic EX729 29mm --- 675g
Spank Spike EVO 35AL 30mm 35mm 599g
Sun MTX 31 24mm 31mm 630g
Sun EQ 31 22.4mm 31.5mm 546g
Syncros FR DS32 --- 32mm 564g
WTB LaserDisc FR --- 30mm 570g
WTB LaserDisc DH --- 34mm 635g

Is there any other rim I am forgetting?
 
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zdubyadubya

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
My vote is EX721. Light, strong, reliable. Anyone can find something wrong with any rim or have some friend who "exploded those rims on the first run", but you need a rim which is pretty good at a little bit of everything....? this wheel does it.
 
mtg

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
If you're going to run tubeless, get 823's. They're very strong and actually made to run tubeless.

My experience: Last year I ran 823's with Maxxis UST tires, and this year I've been on Deemax with Maxxis UST, and the setup works great. I can run in the low 20's for psi, every once in awhile hear a rim ding, but they still don't dent, and never a hint of burping (with proper UST/UST setup). The only flats I've had are from punching a hole in the tread area of the carcass (which would flat a tubed tire as well).
 
Matchew

Matchew

Monkey
May 26, 2006
511
0
NH / Mass (ugh)
zdubyadubya said:
My vote is EX721. Light, strong, reliable. Anyone can find something wrong with any rim or have some friend who "exploded those rims on the first run", but you need a rim which is pretty good at a little bit of everything....? this wheel does it.
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Never tried tubless but here are my thoughts on 2 of your options:

In my experience, the EX721 is a great all around rim for about a season. Mine were too dented to even hold a tire on about mid way through this season (1.5 race seasons total). Plus side is they have definitely prevented a few pinch flats on race runs by denting instead. In your case this probably isn't a good thing. However, (w/tube) if you don't mind replacing at least the rear every season and keep track of your spoke tension/truing the 721 is great.

729's are a good bit heavier but also much stronger and less likely to dent. I rode a set for 2.5 seasons with regular maintainence and they only have a couple small flat spots and are still pretty true with good tension. After my 721's died I switched over to the 729. The extra weight is noticeable but I would rather have a noticeably stronger rim that I can beat on without worry. Tires tend to go on tight with the 729 so I assume that could help with potential burping problems, I also like the wider tire profile over the 721.

My vote: EX729 (Out of mavic options, tube in)
 
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nybike1971

nybike1971

Chimp
Nov 16, 2006
67
0
Niskayuna, NY
mtg said:
If you're going to run tubeless, get 823's. They're very strong and actually made to run tubeless.

My experience: Last year I ran 823's with Maxxis UST tires, and this year I've been on Deemax with Maxxis UST, and the setup works great. I can run in the low 20's for psi, every once in awhile hear a rim ding, but they still don't dent, and never a hint of burping (with proper UST/UST setup). The only flats I've had are from punching a hole in the tread area of the carcass (which would flat a tubed tire as well).
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I am not too fond of the Maxxis UST tire options for downhill. I prefer running a combination of 3C and 60a compounds depending on conditions and have never had an issue sealing these tires on converted rims (DT 5.1d, Stan Flow, or Azonic Outlaw).

Have you tried sealing Maxxis Minion DHF 2.7 to the EX823 rim? Do you use sealant or run it dry with UST tires?
 
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S

Stylecat

Chimp
Aug 27, 2009
5
0
I'm planning on a new wheelset as well. My plan is 721 in the front, 729 in the back(on hope hubs). No idea on how well they work with tubeless tho...
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Maxxis' regular DH offerings work well on 823s with a little sealant. Never ran a 2.7, but I can't imagine they'd be much different than the 2.5s in that regard.

If you want totally bombproof, and don't mind the extra weight much, 823s are great. I've been running one on the back of my Draco for a while, and it's been flawless. You're light enough and smooth enough I think you could get away with 721s, if you want lighter. I just did the 823 because I wanted something I'd have a really hard time killing, rather than something that would hold up so long as I didn't make a big mistake (see: the 5.1d that I nuked casing the road gap the first day we rode together).
 
Jim Mac

Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
May 21, 2004
6,352
282
the middle east of NY
HAB said:
Maxxis' regular DH offerings work well on 823s with a little sealant. Never ran a 2.7, but I can't imagine they'd be much different than the 2.5s in that regard.

If you want totally bombproof, and don't mind the extra weight much, 823s are great. I've been running one on the back of my Draco for a while, and it's been flawless. You're light enough and smooth enough I think you could get away with 721s, if you want lighter. I just did the 823 because I wanted something I'd have a really hard time killing, rather than something that would hold up so long as I didn't make a big mistake (see: the 5.1d that I nuked casing the road gap the first day we rode together).
Click to expand...
Luca, go with this 'young punk's' advice - from how you ride, I'd say that you would benefit from slightly heavier, more durable rims. You're a recently converted hucker!:D

EDIT: what rear hub are you thinking of running? Will you keep the Azonic?
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Jim Mac said:
Luca, go with this 'young punk's' advice - from how you ride, I'd say that you would benefit from slightly heavier, more durable rims. You're a recently converted hucker!:D

EDIT: what rear hub are you thinking of running? Will you keep the Azonic?
Click to expand...
Since he said the Outlaws would be a backup, I think the implication was that this would be an entirely new wheelset.

chillindrdude said:
i was thinkin' about ZTR Flows.... altho i've been pretty happy with my 721s
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Eh, they're a really good trail bike wheel, but I don't see them being something you can really DH on a lot and expect them to live that long. If you're OK with a race day wheelset that you'll rebuild maybe once a season, sure.
 
nybike1971

nybike1971

Chimp
Nov 16, 2006
67
0
Niskayuna, NY
Jim Mac said:
Luca, go with this 'young punk's' advice - from how you ride, I'd say that you would benefit from slightly heavier, more durable rims. You're a recently converted hucker!:D

EDIT: what rear hub are you thinking of running? Will you keep the Azonic?
Click to expand...
HAB said:
Since he said the Outlaws would be a backup, I think the implication was that this would be an entirely new wheelset.
Click to expand...
The rims on the Azonic wheels are holding up fine, it's the hubs that are giving me grief. The rear one has developed a bunch of play after only a couple of months of use ... Azonic has shipped me some replacement bearings and if that doesn't take care of it I'll send the wheel back to them. They have been very responsive and helpful.

I wouldn't mind having a second wheelset also to allow for different tire combinations (it's a pain to swap sealed tires in a converted tubeless setup).

I have CK hubs + Flow rims on my trail bike and it's a setup that has proven durable for trailriding and the hits I am willing to take on a short travel bike, but I wouldn't want to use those rims day in and day out for DH duty.

Right now, I am leaning towards Hadley hubs + EX823. I think that's a wheelset that would last me a few seasons unless I really screw something up badly.

Can you fit Schrader valves in the 823 or are they drilled for Presta only?
 
daisycutter

daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,657
129
New York City
Hadley hubs + EX823 make a great wheelset. I like DT 440 hubs as well. I broke a 3 year old 440 hub by dropping it while re-lacing it to a new rim. DT sent me out a new hub, no questions asked.

I also like Mavic's 729 rims they can take a major beating as well.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,367
1,605
Warsaw :/
Go 823s. Im a bit lighter than you but Im a hack and tend to run too low pressures on trackcs that require a bit more, I dent rims and am not really smooth and 823s are the only rims that I am almost not able to dent. I also use them tubeless with UST tires and they are amazing.
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
nybike1971 said:
The rims on the Azonic wheels are holding up fine, it's the hubs that are giving me grief. The rear one has developed a bunch of play after only a couple of months of use ... Azonic has shipped me some replacement bearings and if that doesn't take care of it I'll send the wheel back to them. They have been very responsive and helpful.

I wouldn't mind having a second wheelset also to allow for different tire combinations (it's a pain to swap sealed tires in a converted tubeless setup).

I have CK hubs + Flow rims on my trail bike and it's a setup that has proven durable for trailriding and the hits I am willing to take on a short travel bike, but I wouldn't want to use those rims day in and day out for DH duty.

Right now, I am leaning towards Hadley hubs + EX823. I think that's a wheelset that would last me a few seasons unless I really screw something up badly.

Can you fit Schrader valves in the 823 or are they drilled for Presta only?
Click to expand...
They're drilled presta, but if you're running them tubeless, they come with a presta valve for that, and a very good schrader adapter for the stem.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,859
24,451
media blackout
Arrow DHH rims, end of story. Nearly indestructible! I hammered on a set for 2 years and never needed to true them. Granted, they were freaking boat anchors.
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
jonKranked said:
Arrow DHH rims, end of story. Nearly indestructible! I hammered on a set for 2 years and never needed to true them. Granted, they were freaking boat anchors.
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Jon, Luca's my size, not yours. He doesn't need wheels that would hold up a Challenger tank.

:weee::weee:
 
kazlx

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
I have the 823s/Hadleys on my Knolly DT, which I ride everywhere. I love the setup and haven't had an issue with them yet. They sealed up fantastic to regular 2.5 High Rollers. I'm really happy with my decision to build the wheelset that I wanted and haven't regretted it one bit. Would gladly put the same build on a full DH sled without hesitation. I had to tighten a few spokes after a weekend in Northstar, but I'm pushing 230lbs and not exactly ballet dancer smooth.
 
nybike1971

nybike1971

Chimp
Nov 16, 2006
67
0
Niskayuna, NY
VooDooHoo said:
721's Luca:thumb:

and you had better bump up for this weekends race or you will encounter the wrath of viciousDHer
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Unfortunately I won't be able to make it to the race this weekend. I am visiting a friend in Boston and then riding at Highland.

How long have you had the 721 for? Any dents?

TheTruth said:
I might need to take a picture of my ex721 abuse. It's not good. But, if you are anywhere but New Jersey/New York, I think you will be fine with the 721's.
Click to expand...
Oh boy! The mountains where I spend most of my time are Plattekill, Whiteface, Diablo, and Highland. I guess Highland doesn't have too many rocks. :rofl:
 
B

balfarider22

Chimp
Feb 20, 2008
55
0
Lansing, New York
HAB said:
Eh, they're a really good trail bike wheel, but I don't see them being something you can really DH on a lot and expect them to live that long. If you're OK with a race day wheelset that you'll rebuild maybe once a season, sure.
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the flows work fine if youre a smooth rider. i have 3 sets of the flows on different bikes. one of them i have been using for 3 full race seasons at platty now. has some dents but nothing crazy... if you arent a pretty smooth rider i would recommend 721's. theyll last you forever.
 
Ithnu

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
961
0
Denver
nybike1971 said:
Here we go:
Rim Internal width External width Published weight

Mavic EX823 UST 23mm --- 655g (+eyelets)

Sun MTX 31 24mm 31mm 630g
Sun EQ 31 22.4mm 31.5mm 546g


Is there any other rim I am forgetting?
Click to expand...
For DH these are the ones I have experience with. I also use DT's 5.1 on my trail bike.

From my experience nothing beats Mavic rims for quality. I love'm. For price Sun Ringle' is a great deal. You're not too heavy for an EQ but the MTX has a stronger sidewall, so it would be your call there.

I am not a fan of DT at all. They claim to dent to prevent pinch flats. Sun rims will also dent on hard impacts but don't cost anywhere near as much. I had a MTX 33 with 2 thumb sized dents across from each other and it still held a bead without pinch flatting.
 
MinorThreat

MinorThreat

Turbo Monkey
Nov 15, 2005
1,630
41
Nine Mile Falls, WA
Well, no one's come to bat for Syncros wheels yet, so I guess I better:

I haven't actually laced up my DS 32s yet; but as long as they are as tough as the old DPS 32s, the strength-to-weight ratio promises to be downright incredible. I am not a heavy rider (175-180#) but I am not that smooth - - so I have flogged DPS 32 wheelsets mercilessly and the most attention they've ever needed is retensioning/retruing a couple times a season.

If you go with the DS32 wheelset, you'll get the same quad-bearing hubs as in the DPS32s. I have NEVER had to touch either. Cutaways of these bad boys (top one in ea. pic):





I can't answer for running them tubeless; but since you're already converting non-USTs for the purpose, I see no reason the DS32s would not work as well. They have a good, secure bead lock channel. I run mine tubed at 20-25# consistently in rocky E. Washington/N. Idaho and have never put flat spots in 'em and have never had to deal with pinch flats.
 
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Big J

Big J

Monkey
Jul 18, 2005
421
0
Chicago
For off the shelf wheel sets I had great luck w/ A.D.D.'s which are reasonable and Sun support has been great when comes to rebuilds.

J
 
ScarredOne

ScarredOne

Monkey
Sep 18, 2001
185
0
I'm 175# without gear and run 823s front and rear and have been for almost two years now. I've had no problems, and they seal up with NON UST Maxxis 2-ply 2.7/2.5 tires without a problem, as long as the tires aren't old or contorted funny from shipping.

As I get tired over a long day of lift-assisted riding, I end up riding more like a hack. I developed several large sidewall dents in 729s (front and rear), although none of them resulted in flats. On 823s I've had only a couple slight dings, too small to bend back.

Since you're light and you want a lighter all around wheelset I'd say you could get away with a 721 (don't know how much weight you're gonna save once it's converted though), but since you said you don't always make trannies quite so nicely I'd go with an 823 out back.
 
Tomasis

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
norbar said:
go 823s. Im a bit lighter than you but im a hack and tend to run too low pressures on trackcs that require a bit more, i dent rims and am not really smooth and 823s are the only rims that i am almost not able to dent. I also use them tubeless with ust tires and they are amazing.
Click to expand...
+1........
 
Wa-Aw

Wa-Aw

Monkey
Jul 30, 2010
354
0
Philippines
I don't know if I have just gotten the luck of the draw but...

My Syncros DS28's have been incredibly strong. Not a single dent or single bit of wobble to match my beaten 729 on the back. I usually ride my front pretty rough too and I hear plenty of rim shots. This is making me want to try their 32's. They're both quite light too and the white finish has been very strong.
 
Ithnu

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
961
0
Denver
norbar said:
Go 823s. Im a bit lighter than you but Im a hack and tend to run too low pressures on trackcs that require a bit more, I dent rims and am not really smooth and 823s are the only rims that I am almost not able to dent. I also use them tubeless with UST tires and they are amazing.
Click to expand...
I agree. I get lazy and just plow when I get tired. I was going to re-lace my Hope/823s this spring but when I trued them up they were near perfect. I'm just finishing 2 years of racing on them. There is 1 wobble (damn spoke stripped and I can't true that spot), no dents but lots of scratches.

I am going to re-lace them though, I already bought the rims. But I may just get a new front hub and sell the wheel complete since its nearly perfect (and I do get Mavic cheap through my team:D)
 
frorider

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Ithnu said:
I am not a fan of DT at all. They claim to dent to prevent pinch flats. .
Click to expand...
are you aware that you're out of date on this? didn't you get the memo that DT rims have been changed?

i've had no issues on the DT 600s. like the width and tubeless weight advantage over my 823s. noticed quite a few DT 600 users this summer. i suspect that some of them, like me, had given up on the older DT rims, but had heard the new ones were improved and gave them a try.
 
Ithnu

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
961
0
Denver
frorider said:
are you aware that you're out of date on this? didn't you get the memo that DT rims have been changed?

i've had no issues on the DT 600s. like the width and tubeless weight advantage over my 823s. noticed quite a few DT 600 users this summer. i suspect that some of them, like me, had given up on the older DT rims, but had heard the new ones were improved and gave them a try.
Click to expand...
A company is allowed to improve so that's fair. My 5.1s on my Meta6 are from 2008 I believe. I got them cheap so I bought 5 hoops. I've been through 2 already. So there's my reason on older DT rims.
 
CoyoteRun

CoyoteRun

Chimp
May 29, 2008
56
0
SF, CA
My vote for SUN MTX.


nybike1971 said:
I am looking to build a reasonably durable and lightweight wheelset for general purpose DH: not full-on hucking, but not race-day only either.

About me: I am 165lbs out of the shower, 175lbs ready to ride. I am sometimes too slow to hit the sweet spot of a transition on big boy race courses, but too stupid to roll it or go around it. Also, I mostly ride at places like Plattekill where flattish landings are par for the course. A soft rim that flat spots easily is not going to cut it.

I am currently using a pair of Azonic Outlaw wheels but the rear hub is developing a bunch of play. Azonic is helping me figure out the problem, but I'd like to have the Outlaw become the backup wheelset. I am running the Azonic wheelset tubeless with yellow tape and a Stan's freeride rim strip without a hitch. My usual tires are MAxxis Minion DHF 2-ply or High roller 2-ply 2.5 or 2.7. These tires seal up beautifully on the converted Azonic rims and never burp. I am not planning on using UST tires on the new rims, but I would like to be able to run Maxxis 2-ply tires tubeless.

Is Azonic still using the Alex Supra D rim in their wheelset?

I compiled a list of rims with weight and internal/external rim width. I would be interested in hearing If you guys have had good or bad experiences with any of these rims and if you have a recommendation for what would suit me needs the best.

Here we go:

Rim Internal width External width Published weight

Alex Supra D 25mm 31.7mm 588g
Atomlab Pimplite 22.4mm 31.5mm 630g
DT Swiss FR600 25mm 31.8mm 600g
Mavic EX721 21mm --- 590g
Mavic EX823 UST 23mm --- 655g (+eyelets)
Mavic EX729 29mm --- 675g
Spank Spike EVO 35AL 30mm 35mm 599g
Sun MTX 31 24mm 31mm 630g
Sun EQ 31 22.4mm 31.5mm 546g
Syncros FR DS32 --- 32mm 564g
WTB LaserDisc FR --- 30mm 570g
WTB LaserDisc DH --- 34mm 635g

Is there any other rim I am forgetting?
Click to expand...
 
Uncle Cliffy

Uncle Cliffy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2008
4,490
42
Southern Oregon
norbar said:
Go 823s. Im a bit lighter than you but Im a hack and tend to run too low pressures on trackcs that require a bit more, I dent rims and am not really smooth and 823s are the only rims that I am almost not able to dent. I also use them tubeless with UST tires and they are amazing.
Click to expand...
Quoted for truth.
 
S

Sonic Reducer

Monkey
Mar 19, 2006
500
0
seattle worshington
i just laced up a 823 to replace a ruined 5.1d. totally new to the tubeless thing. should I stay with a tire that has a real DH casing or can I go to single plys? ust or otherwise? any tips for getting non ust tires seated on 823's? is sealant a requirement with non ust?
 
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