toxic sludge and aluminum sourcing for bikes

I don't want to get into a political rant here, but I feel like I must say this: most of the members of the Monkey are either Canadian or American (funny thing, even when I'm from Argentina, in the south cone of the American Continent, seems like I don't qualify to be called "American"...). I have been to the 'States about two months ago. I saw a myriad of cars driving with just a person inside. Insanely big cars. With big engines. The only thing small with them is the mileage they get for each gallon of fuel. And even worse, seems like nobody can drive with a stick there. Every car has an automatic gearbox...

I don't want to put everybody in the same room, but after my short visit to USA I got thinking why do you people need those big engines and monstrous cars? Most of the people just drive from their homes to their workplaces and back home again (oh, wait, I just forgot the Starbucks drive-thru...).

The entire country is designed around cars. And those cars are fuel-hungry. And that hunger gets satisfied through wars. It's sad, but true.

Bikes don't make a significant part of aluminum use around the world. As it was said before in this thread, airplanes, power lines and cars get a bigger share.

slimshady said:

I don't want to put everybody in the same room, but after my short visit to USA I got thinking why do you people need those big engines and monstrous cars?

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we buy them because we can.

slimshady said:

I don't want to get into a political rant here, but I feel like I must say this: most of the members of the Monkey are either Canadian or American (funny thing, even when I'm from Argentina, in the south cone of the American Continent, seems like I don't qualify to be called "American"...). I have been to the 'States about two months ago. I saw a myriad of cars driving with just a person inside. Insanely big cars. With big engines. The only thing small with them is the mileage they get for each gallon of fuel. And even worse, seems like nobody can drive with a stick there. Every car has an automatic gearbox...

I don't want to put everybody in the same room, but after my short visit to USA I got thinking why do you people need those big engines and monstrous cars? Most of the people just drive from their homes to their workplaces and back home again (oh, wait, I just forgot the Starbucks drive-thru...).

The entire country is designed around cars. And those cars are fuel-hungry. And that hunger gets satisfied through wars. It's sad, but true.

Bikes don't make a significant part of aluminum use around the world. As it was said before in this thread, airplanes, power lines and cars get a bigger share.

Click to expand...

Where do you draw the line? A bike still takes a lot of energy etc to make, and are generally designed to only last 5 years. Pretty stupid in my mind, when the technoligy is there to make them last longer with probably zero handicap, and using steel could halve the environmental impact.
Recycling is a huge part overlooked though. Just recycle your cracked frames, and even small parts correctly and you're making a huge difference. Better still, ask your local bike shop if they recycle, if not, ask to leave a bin there, and get them to call when filled, you pick up, sort, and sell, it'll pay for your time.

no skid marks said:

Where do you draw the line? A bike still takes a lot of energy etc to make, and are generally designed to only last 5 years. Pretty stupid in my mind, when the technology is there to make them last longer with probably zero handicap, and using steel could halve the environmental impact.
Recycling is a huge part overlooked though. Just recycle your cracked frames, and even small parts correctly and you're making a huge difference. Better still, ask your local bike shop if they recycle, if not, ask to leave a bin there, and get them to call when filled, you pick up, sort, and sell, it'll pay for your time.

Click to expand...

I now realize I got too fundamental (and judgemental) in my previous post. Even when USA is the biggest resource hog at the industrial countries, the whole world's problems wouldn't be solved if the whole nation starts recycling at its maximum capacity. Recycling policies should not only be encouraged by every single government in the world, but also enforced. We are all stressing the ability of our environment to re-incorporate our waste and non-recycled debris. Don't get me wrong, I'm nothing closer to a tree hugger or environmental activist. It's just a matter of survival.

On the other hand, when you are closer to the lowest strata of the economy pyramid, you just don't mind recycling. Your whole life spins around your next meal... A few years ago, my brother started a project here in La Plata, Argentina, to teach indigent people how they could organize and get a bigger profit by collecting and recycling collectively than the one they got by digging individually in the richer people's garbage. It didn't last long, but that was due to a poor support from the local government. Try to explain to the people in Ghana, Iraq, India, Serbia, or even here in Argentina, how recycling will affect their life and the ones of their offspring. All they care about is today, because when it comes to future, they can't take anything for granted.

IH8Rice said:

we buy them because we can.

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Well, seems like I stroke a soft spot there... I'd say if you can buy them, you can start thinking about everyone else...

we buy them because we can.

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I love you man!

slimshady said:

Well, seems like I stroke a soft spot there... I'd say if you can buy them, you can start thinking about everyone else...

Click to expand...

I'll worry about everyone else when they buy my house & food for me.
Until then, I'll keep my nose to the grindstone, bust ass daily & buy wtf I want
I got a really big fvcking truck, & I'm saving for another!
I do build my bikes out of good old USA free range steel. Aluminum is the devil..

FlyinPolack said:

I love you man!

I do build my bikes out of good old USA free range steel. Aluminum is the devil..

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I'd say Big Ass Corporations are the devil. Blaming a whole country for the world's disgrace is just dumb (me getz facepalm here). The whole makealltheprofityoucanwhileyoucan culture is fvcking us all. Most of the industrial processes can be improved to be less contaminant, or to stop their pollution for good. But if that means less profit for the owners/shareholders, it's a no-can-do.

IH8Rice said:

we buy them because we can.

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Doesn't mean that you should.

FlyinPolack said:

I'll worry about everyone else when they buy my house & food for me.
Until then, I'll keep my nose to the grindstone, bust ass daily & buy wtf I want
I got a really big fvcking truck, & I'm saving for another!

Click to expand...

It's people with that attitude that is sending this planet straight down the toilet.

Hard work is one thing but at some point people need to think of someone and something other than themselves and do their part for this planet.

slimshady said:

Most of the industrial processes can be improved to be less contaminant, or to stop their pollution for good.

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Unfortunately that's just not true. In any kind of ore processing field, there will always be waste that is unusable. When it's in slurry form, they don't really have a choice but to put it in a tailing's damn. But of course unlike this one, they're supposed to be built properly.



Back to the point: In most mining/processing fields a marked improvement of environmental processes is just too damn expensive. I'm talking about reducing to a point where it has a noticeable effect on the area around it ( not small things like a few less ppm of contaminants in your waste that just make you appear to be making a difference). What is too expensive you ask? Well a fact of life is everything is done for a profit, and no company will ever operate if they aren't making a profit. Sure it's better for the earth if they have no pollution, but the money pays the bills and if that ceases, so does the product.

ekimox said:

Doesn't mean that you should.

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when communism takes over in the U.S., ill worry about what i should buy. until then, Americans will buy whatever over-sized vehicle they want. the #1 selling vehicle in America for over 25years, is a pickup truck....not really the pinnacle of fuel efficiency

Where's Tootricky when you need him? Id like to see him comment on "cultural differences" in this thread!

ekimox said:

It's people with that attitude that is sending this planet straight down the toilet.

Hard work is one thing but at some point people need to think of someone and something other than themselves and do their part for this planet.

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I was born poor, & decided to change my circumstances myself through hard work. I just wish that the rest of the world would do the same...

Our arrogance has put us on top, it's why we own the world. We will not settle for less, & have no problem working hard to have more. It's that simple, really.

We have this group in the USA, it's called the EPA. It's crooked & inefficient as hell, but it does keep things a lot cleaner than most countries that don't have one. Maybe all of those "terribly polluted" 3rd world countries that steal all of our work could of thought of it before hand, eh? There is a reason why the worst environmental disasters seem to happen in these places. The people in charge there were thinking of profits (Just like us evil Americans).

You can blame America for your problems all you want but keep this in mind:
The next time there is a Hurricane, Tsunami, or Earthquake ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, the USA will be there to help. Even all of the Jerkoffs that hate us will get help...

Peace

Ha. Gotta love/hate the American attitude.

Our arrogance has put us on top, it's why we own the world.

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LOL, the irony is cringing. I think China would have something to say about that... and nearly every other nation outside your borders.

You do know there's a whole World outside your borders, don't you?

Sure, you yanks help out a lot, but you also manage to fcuk things up quite a bit... but let's not argue about that.

Sure you do do somethings better than many 3rd world countries, not hard though is it?

God bless America

Peace

Hmm....I'm moving to a town next week that has 2 Alumina refineries and 2 red mud dams, one of which is bigger than that one.

And someone who has been burnt by Caustic on several occasions, I can think of no worse way to die. What a disaster.

FlyinPolack said:

I was born poor, & decided to change my circumstances myself through hard work. I just wish that the rest of the world would do the same...

Our arrogance has put us on top, it's why we own the world. We will not settle for less, & have no problem working hard to have more. It's that simple, really.

We have this group in the USA, it's called the EPA. It's crooked & inefficient as hell, but it does keep things a lot cleaner than most countries that don't have one. Maybe all of those "terribly polluted" 3rd world countries that steal all of our work could of thought of it before hand, eh? There is a reason why the worst environmental disasters seem to happen in these places. The people in charge there were thinking of profits (Just like us evil Americans).

You can blame America for your problems all you want but keep this in mind:
The next time there is a Hurricane, Tsunami, or Earthquake ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, the USA will be there to help. Even all of the Jerkoffs that hate us will get help...

Peace

Click to expand...

Your post is hilarious. The arrogance of some (read: some) Americans is astounding. First of all, hard work is the only way you will ever get ahead in this life. I'm not knocking the US for but you're not the only hard workers on this planet.

Really, the USA owns the world?? Hilarious!!! The US is practically owned by China and the Middle East so don't kid yourself. With the debt the US has amassed in the past 10 years it's going to be that way for a very, very, long time.

Other terribly polluted countries? The US owns that title as the largest ABUSER of energy on Earth. The pollution goes hand in hand with that.

The worst environmental disasters happen in 3rd world countries? BP Oil Spill ringing any bells or has that already been swept under the rug in the US media and forgotten about? The BP spill was the worst thing to ever happen to this planet.

Every time I cross the border from Vancouver (Canada) I'm blown away by all the SUV's and full size trucks driving around, most all of them big V8's. Canada has their fair share of trucks and SUV's but here it seems people drive trucks because they actually use them. If you actually NEED a big truck that's great but the fact of the matter is most people driving big trucks and SUV's drive them solely because "WE CAN!!!” That's the worst possible reason ever. Take a look at your actual needs and drive something that fits those needs. I'm not suggesting that we all drive around in Smart cars but we all need to start doing our part for this planet and if that means driving a smaller more efficient vehicle than so be it. Do I wish I drove a truck sometimes? Sure. But 98% of the time my ride works just fine.

For the record I drive an Audi A4 Avant (32+ mpg hwy) and I also work my fcuking ass off.

FlyinPolack said:

I was born poor, & decided to change my circumstances myself through hard work. I just wish that the rest of the world would do the same...

Our arrogance has put us on top, it's why we own the world. We will not settle for less, & have no problem working hard to have more. It's that simple, really.

We have this group in the USA, it's called the EPA. It's crooked & inefficient as hell, but it does keep things a lot cleaner than most countries that don't have one. Maybe all of those "terribly polluted" 3rd world countries that steal all of our work could of thought of it before hand, eh? There is a reason why the worst environmental disasters seem to happen in these places. The people in charge there were thinking of profits (Just like us evil Americans).

You can blame America for your problems all you want but keep this in mind:
The next time there is a Hurricane, Tsunami, or Earthquake ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, the USA will be there to help. Even all of the Jerkoffs that hate us will get help...

Peace

Click to expand...

Is it me or is your neck really red.

gonna need more

BTW, Klein was the 2nd worst polluter in Oregon one year.

IH8Rice said:

when communism takes over in the U.S., ill worry about what i should buy. until then, Americans will buy whatever over-sized vehicle they want. the #1 selling vehicle in America for over 25years, is a pickup truck....not really the pinnacle of fuel efficiency

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Is that avatar saying you are a bad religion fan or just anti christian? Because I find it hard to believe that any half way intelligent BR fan would have such arrogant and flat out retarded verbal diarrhea. Besides, that statistic is a prime example of the cultural issues we have in this country. One group will blame him, then someone else blames someone else for all the problems, while we all burn through the worlds resources at an epic pace. But thats ok because we can just get recruiters to sit out side of our high schools to round up another generation to kill and die for what some other county has. Right?

Oh, if you are a BR fan, I am going to the Halloween show here in ATL. Maxxximum Stokage Bra11!1

FlyinPolack said:

I was born poor, & decided to change my circumstances myself through hard work. I just wish that the rest of the world would do the same...

Our arrogance has put us on top, it's why we own the world. We will not settle for less, & have no problem working hard to have more. It's that simple, really.

We have this group in the USA, it's called the EPA. It's crooked & inefficient as hell, but it does keep things a lot cleaner than most countries that don't have one. Maybe all of those "terribly polluted" 3rd world countries that steal all of our work could of thought of it before hand, eh? There is a reason why the worst environmental disasters seem to happen in these places. The people in charge there were thinking of profits (Just like us evil Americans).

You can blame America for your problems all you want but keep this in mind:
The next time there is a Hurricane, Tsunami, or Earthquake ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, the USA will be there to help. Even all of the Jerkoffs that hate us will get help...

Peace

Click to expand...

Hey Mr tea party,

It is a function of most economies to have poor. Poor is what makes rich. When you say you wish the rest of the world would bust there as like you, I understand you are out of the loop or just live is some fantasy. Alot of people bust their ass, harder than you ever would, in sweat shops run by nike, johnson and johnson, and pretty much any company sold at walmart. The poor have to be there, as one of the biggest consumer on the planet we dont need to make it so hard for the people who make our sh!t.

America is not on top. I just went to europe 2 months ago and believe me, they have stronger money, more stability, and health care. Everyone I talked to over there asked me what the hell is wrong with our politics? That foolish pride is running us in the ground.

The EPA is not "crooked". That is crap put in your head by people who are sucking off big business. The EPA makes companies spend money to keep the planet clean because the companies will not self regulate. This is why we have government.

And yes we will be there the next time there is a major disaster.

FlyinPolack said:

I was born poor, & decided to change my circumstances myself through hard work. I just wish that the rest of the world would do the same...

Our arrogance has put us on top, it's why we own the world. ....


Peace

Click to expand...

Awesome satire there brother.




Wait. What?

No.

NO? REALLY? You're kidding right? Serious?



Oh. My. God.

wanabe said:

...But thats ok because we can just get recruiters to sit out side of our high schools to round up another generation to kill and die for what some other county has. Right?

Click to expand...

Face it. The world is imperfect. Each and every country, each and every person on this planet is flawed, so therefore there will always be conflict between one person, one country, one continent and another.

Yes... until energy is free and plentiful, until hunger is abolished, until racism is just a word in the dictionary, until the human race evolves and true peace prevails, then recruiters need to round up another generation to fight, protect, and possibly die.

I assume you live in the United States. I assume you enjoy your "ability" to say what you want, when you want, and how you want? Imagine if you had your way and recruiters stopped inviting our young into service. Our military would weaken creating a power vacuum that some other country would fill. What would stop that other country from deciding they want our land and livelihood? If they were to take it, what would you say?

If there is gonna be a super power, why can't it be us? Times are definately in flux, things will eventually change, but in the mean time.... can't we all just get along?

sanjuro said:

BTW, Klein was the 2nd worst polluter in Oregon one year.

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Visual pollution certainly.

wanabe said:

Hey Mr tea party,

It is a function of most economies to have poor. Poor is what makes rich. When you say you wish the rest of the world would bust there as like you, I understand you are out of the loop or just live is some fantasy. Alot of people bust their ass, harder than you ever would, in sweat shops run by nike, johnson and johnson, and pretty much any company sold at walmart. The poor have to be there, as one of the biggest consumer on the planet we dont need to make it so hard for the people who make our sh!t.

America is not on top. I just went to europe 2 months ago and believe me, they have stronger money, more stability, and health care. Everyone I talked to over there asked me what the hell is wrong with our politics? That foolish pride is running us in the ground.

The EPA is not "crooked". That is crap put in your head by people who are sucking off big business. The EPA makes companies spend money to keep the planet clean because the companies will not self regulate. This is why we have government.

And yes we will be there the next time there is a major disaster.

Click to expand...

I would never work for nike, johnson and johnson, and pretty much any company sold at walmart. I'm self Employed, in A business that I started myself with a loan & a lot of ambition.

There is no reason for any human being to ever "SETTLE" for being poor.
Anything is possible through hard work.
I have no desire to make anyone's life harder, but if they are going to steal the work, they need to take the same precautions that we would. There is a reason that we charge more, & it is not just our "arrogance"...

The EPA is very crooked. I'm not saying that they haven't done great things to keep our country cleaner, but to say they aren't is just ignorant..

Oh yes, I can't deny that I'm a redneck I like steak, chainsaws, guns, & trucks.
& in America I can have all 4! Fvck Yah!
So There!

Oh, & you sensitive types are way too easy...

"Anything is possible through hard work and a little luck"

Fixed your post.


If you hadn't gotten that loan, where would you be?

FlyinPolack said:

I would never work for nike, johnson and johnson, and pretty much any company sold at walmart. I'm self Employed, in A business that I started myself with a loan & a lot of ambition.

There is no reason for any human being to ever "SETTLE" for being poor.
Anything is possible through hard work.
I have no desire to make anyone's life harder, but if they are going to steal the work, they need to take the same precautions that we would. There is a reason that we charge more, & it is not just our "arrogance"...

The EPA is very crooked. I'm not saying that they haven't done great things to keep our country cleaner, but to say they aren't is just ignorant..

Oh yes, I can't deny that I'm a redneck I like steak, chainsaws, guns, & trucks.
& in America I can have all 4! Fvck Yah!
So There!

Click to expand...

Wow uh OK. I was talking about the people taken advantage of by american companies in the third world. Where there is no way for "hard work" to get them ahead.

And to say that "there is no reason for any on to SETTLE for being poor" is absurd. Pay attention to the rest of the world. You got lucky that you were born in america. You are no better than the majority of the rest of the earths population. We are given the power and resources to better the planet. Wheres the problem.

And oh yes, I cant deny that I'm a Marxist socialist liberal, I like tofu, education, guns, and my Prius.

As for big useless SUVs that burn even grass along the road, but not that big like in USA, they are very common even in old haughty senile Europe. Young chicks (who surely afforded them after their daily hard work), young bussinessmen whit need for being some one else and lots of other wannabes. They can't properly park even the smaller car but they must have the biggest shjt designed at BMW, Audi, Porsche, VW. And if money is issue, even french super-quality vehicles or Kia is OK.
EU officers hav their mouth full of (shjts) anything about ecology and environmental sustainability. But the fact is EU is also selling weapons to Africa, private companies are illegaly exporting toxic waste to the shelfs of western Africa and selling expired medicaments to poor Africans.
That is the face of mentality of todays "civilized" countries.

Is there a forum for "people who toot their own horns" for this to go to?

Even though this thread is off-topic, I can't help but post my .02...

If everyone consumed resources at the same rate as an average citizen of the United States, we would need many more planets to extract resources from. Without the existence of poverty in third-world countries, our wealth and lavish lifestyles would not be possible. Not everyone can just up and decide to become a wealthy consumer, because there are simply not enough raw materials and laborers for that to become a reality. There is a concept in sociology called the "uses of poverty". Poverty can be seen as a construct of first-world empires that is necessary for our abundant and artificial wealth. Be thankful for what you have, realize that not everyone can have the same degree of wealth that all of us are afforded here, and maybe try to conserve just a little bit so that there is more to go around.

FlyinPolack said:

The next time there is a Hurricane, Tsunami, or Earthquake ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, the USA will be there to help.

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Actually after we saw a bit of footage of you guys dealing with Katrina we'd very much appreciate it if you stayed away. Thanks though.

it's soooooo tiring to listen to the same crap over and over and over and over again....
Freedom™ WAS NOT, IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE the sole answer to every goddamned problem in the US or in the world.
and i'm sorry, but looking at it from the outside i have to add, that the US in it's current state is simply f*cked.

Straya said:

Actually after we saw a bit of footage of you guys dealing with Katrina we'd very much appreciate it if you stayed away. Thanks though.

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Touche'

slimshady said:

I don't want to get into a political rant here, but I feel like I must say this: most of the members of the Monkey are either Canadian or American (funny thing, even when I'm from Argentina, in the south cone of the American Continent, seems like I don't qualify to be called "American"...). I have been to the 'States about two months ago. I saw a myriad of cars driving with just a person inside. Insanely big cars. With big engines. The only thing small with them is the mileage they get for each gallon of fuel. And even worse, seems like nobody can drive with a stick there. Every car has an automatic gearbox...

I don't want to put everybody in the same room, but after my short visit to USA I got thinking why do you people need those big engines and monstrous cars? Most of the people just drive from their homes to their workplaces and back home again (oh, wait, I just forgot the Starbucks drive-thru...).

The entire country is designed around cars. And those cars are fuel-hungry. And that hunger gets satisfied through wars. It's sad, but true.

Bikes don't make a significant part of aluminum use around the world. As it was said before in this thread, airplanes, power lines and cars get a bigger share.

Click to expand...

Two things to add to the above.

1. USA = 5% of the global population and 25% of global energy consumption and you can get thrown in jail for a roach.

2. Netherlands = everyone rides a bike and pot is legal.

Back OT - my sympathies for those affected and my recommendation is to get the phuc outta dodge.

And Bizutch - you hit the nail on the head.

PS - I love USA and Amsterdam.

this american arrogancy is over as soon as the dollar gets dropped as a world currency. then you really know how much your country is still "producing" (and by producing i don't mean "printing new worthless paper money).

Moral of the story.

Your fellow man will screw you over to get ahead. It's been engrained in us through millions of years of evolution.

Raingauge said:

Moral of the story.

Your fellow man will screw you over to get ahead. It's been engrained in us through millions of years of evolution.

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"Ahead" only in the realm myopic fools. See:

Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Cows_on_Selsley_Common_-_geograph.org.uk_-_192472.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Cows_on_Selsley_Common_-_geograph.org.uk_-_192472.jpg/300px-Cows_on_Selsley_Common_-_geograph.org.uk_-_192472.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/7/7c/Cows_on_Selsley_Common_-_geograph.org.uk_-_192472.jpg/300px-Cows_on_Selsley_Common_-_geograph.org.uk_-_192472.jpg

syadasti said:

"Ahead" only in the realm myopic fools. See:

Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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I agree. Most people don't care as long as it's not in their back yard.

Thing is though, planet earth is our back yard. Most men are too short sighted to see it.