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XX shifter XO rear Der?

abbike18

Chimp
Aug 23, 2009
30
0
Does anyone know if you can use a XX rear shifter on a 10 speed XO short cage rear derailleur? For some reason Sram doesn't make a short cage XX, but I would like to use the XX shifter.
 
Last edited:

Natedog

Monkey
Nov 8, 2003
210
0
Ventura, Ca
That should be fine. As long as it's a 10 spd der. I was under the impression that 10 spd shifter and 9 spd der isn't compatible. But any 10spd shifter should work with any 10 spd der.
 

DhDork

Monkey
Mar 30, 2007
352
0
Hell, AZ
Up until now I know that as long as your shifter matches the cassette in terms of how many speeds you would be fine. But on the Sram website they have a different derailleur for 10sp and 9sp. As far as mixing XX and XO as long as they are both 10sp compatible you are good to go.

My question is, as anyone mixed a 10sp Chain, Cassette and Shifter with a 9sp derailleur and it work?
 

Natedog

Monkey
Nov 8, 2003
210
0
Ventura, Ca
Up until now I know that as long as your shifter matches the cassette in terms of how many speeds you would be fine. But on the Sram website they have a different derailleur for 10sp and 9sp. As far as mixing XX and XO as long as they are both 10sp compatible you are good to go.

My question is, as anyone mixed a 10sp Chain, Cassette and Shifter with a 9sp derailleur and it work?
Just like you said in your answer above. Both items (shifter and der) have to be 10spd for these to work. So there really isn't a way to fool the system, that I'm aware of yet.
 

abbike18

Chimp
Aug 23, 2009
30
0
Anyone remember what happened with the 8 to 9 speed thing? I think it was the same - 8 speed rear der with 9 speed shifter was a no go, but 8 speed shifter with a 9 speed rear der was ok? for some reason that doesn't seem to make sense but that is what i remember.

Also - called Sram tech this afternoon. All of the direct actuation shifters and rear der are compatible. So XX 10 speed shifter will work with the XO rear der. Now if only they would make a short cage XX.
 

DhDork

Monkey
Mar 30, 2007
352
0
Hell, AZ
Anyone remember what happened with the 8 to 9 speed thing? I think it was the same - 8 speed rear der with 9 speed shifter was a no go, but 8 speed shifter with a 9 speed rear der was ok? for some reason that doesn't seem to make sense but that is what i remember.
It's because the derailleur does not determine how much the chain will move with each shift. The derailleur is free to move between two points. The shifter determines how much the derailleur moves with each shift (ie: indexing). With the cassettes being different spacings between each gear from 8sp to 9sp to 10sp, the shifter has to match the cassette but not the derailleur. Which makes me think you should be able to use a 10sp shifter with a 10sp cassette, and 9sp derailleur. Or "8sp Derailleur" for that matter.

On a side note, a 10sp chain will work on a 9sp system, but not vice-versa. The difference is a little shaved off of the pins to make it thinner and compatible with the spacing of a 10sp cassette.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,908
634
It's because the derailleur does not determine how much the chain will move with each shift. The derailleur is free to move between two points. The shifter determines how much the derailleur moves with each shift (ie: indexing). With the cassettes being different spacings between each gear from 8sp to 9sp to 10sp, the shifter has to match the cassette but not the derailleur. Which makes me think you should be able to use a 10sp shifter with a 10sp cassette, and 9sp derailleur. Or "8sp Derailleur" for that matter.

On a side note, a 10sp chain will work on a 9sp system, but not vice-versa. The difference is a little shaved off of the pins to make it thinner and compatible with the spacing of a 10sp cassette.
no idea if it works or not, but the shifter is pulling cable, but that doesn't necessarily mean the ratio of cable pull to lateral der. movement is the same for 9/10 speed. if the pull a 10 speed shimano cable 1 shift with a sram der and a 10 speed sram cable 1 shift with a sram der and the der will end up in a different spot.

I'm sure somebody else can write that out better then I can, but basically pull ratio's make a big difference. if its different, its different.

No idea if it is or not though.
 

DhDork

Monkey
Mar 30, 2007
352
0
Hell, AZ
no idea if it works or not, but the shifter is pulling cable, but that doesn't necessarily mean the ratio of cable pull to lateral der. movement is the same for 9/10 speed. if the pull a 10 speed shimano cable 1 shift with a sram der and a 10 speed sram cable 1 shift with a sram der and the der will end up in a different spot.

I'm sure somebody else can write that out better then I can, but basically pull ratio's make a big difference. if its different, its different.

No idea if it is or not though.
Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. I can see it being completely 'proprietary' seeing as they would make more mula that way.
 
think about it this way.

Sram uses 1:1 actuation, and Shimano has been 2:1. Meaning that while both an XT and x9 shifter (nine speed) have nine clicks, the sram shifter cannot be used on a shimano 9 speed drive train because not enough cable is pulled per click to properly actuate the shimano derailleur. This is true in reverse, that the shimano shifter on the sram derailleur system will pull too much cable per click.

What Shimano has done with DynA-Sys is change the actuation ratio (I think that I read it was 1.3:1) and so you need a 10 speed shifter to push the 10 speed derailleur around correctly. AFAIK Sram has done a similar thing, in that the cable pull is different between their 9 and 10 speed X9/X0 offerings and that is why one must purchase the matching shifter to derailleur.

Someone correct me if I'm off base
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,157
359
Roanoke, VA
All SRAM 10 speed stuff is compatible. You can't use a 9speed derailleur with 10v shifters.
If you want a shortcage rear derailleur for mtb use you can run any of SRAMs road derailleurs. Pick up a Rival deraileur and call it a day.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
tl;dr but my saint 9 speed derailleur works great with my 8 speed chain, cassette, and shifter.

also, 10 speed yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
 

DhDork

Monkey
Mar 30, 2007
352
0
Hell, AZ
Better question, what are you doing for work that allows you to put XX parts on your DH bike where they will likely get torn apart?
Pinkbiker's get bored when the snow hits in the mighty north, in which case they must find new places to contaminate.
 

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
tl;dr but my saint 9 speed derailleur works great with my 8 speed chain, cassette, and shifter.

also, 10 speed yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
I want ask about your saint derailleur, does it move around or just stable as Xo ? my old xt moves up and down a lot .. then I saw that xo body is very stiff. I wonder how are shimano compared to sram regarding its body movement?
 

DhDork

Monkey
Mar 30, 2007
352
0
Hell, AZ
I want ask about your saint derailleur, does it move around or just stable as Xo ? my old xt moves up and down a lot .. then I saw that xo body is very stiff. I wonder how are shimano compared to sram regarding its body movement?
The Saint is going to move more than the Sram, but less than the XT due to a stiffer spring on the Saint. The Sram has one less pivot for movement making it ideal for suspension designs such as FSR.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
I want ask about your saint derailleur, does it move around or just stable as Xo ? my old xt moves up and down a lot .. then I saw that xo body is very stiff. I wonder how are shimano compared to sram regarding its body movement?
I can't comment on multi-friggin pivots or whatever the dude above is talking about, and I can't really compare it to a SRAM drivetrain as the last one I used was an ESP 9, which broke.

I can say that the new.saint derailleur has been flawless, with no play and no adjustment since I bought it early last season. Shifts are firm and quick. The only (only) thing i don't like about it is that it rattles off the stop as I go down the trail. The black part rotates on the gold part, and it will "clack" against the stop. I don't know if there's a way to cure that, maybe I am botarded....but outside of the noise it works excellently.

 

Sghost

Turbo Monkey
Jul 13, 2008
1,038
0
NY
The only (only) thing i don't like about it is that it rattles off the stop as I go down the trail. The black part rotates on the gold part, and it will "clack" against the stop. I don't know if there's a way to cure that, maybe I am botarded....but outside of the noise it works excellently.
Glue a bumper on made of rubber or velco
 

Minh

Chimp
Feb 3, 2012
1
0
I actually bought what I thought was a 10-speed X0 from a LBS that said it was (see more below), and I tried for 2 days to make it work with my 10 speed cassette and my X9-10 speed shifters (contrary to the derailleur, the number of speeds is silk screened on the shifter). It just won't work, because the 10-speed cassette is actually wider than the 9-speed cassette. With the maximum travel of the 9-speed derailleur (top and bottom adjustment screws set at loosest), and cycling through all 10 speeds with the shifter, the derailleur travels from the bottom gear to about halfway between the 9th and 10th cog.

A little known fact is while the XX is only available in 10-speed, X0 and X9 are available in both 9 and 10 speed, and the number of speeds are NOT labeled neither on the derailleur nor the box. There are only 2 ways to find out:
- confusingly, the NINE (9) speed has a part number starting with 10A (yes, ten-letter A); the TEN (10) speed has a part number starting with 11A (eleven-letter A)
- the 9 speed has the classical cable pick up which looks like half a chuck wagon wheel. The 10 speed has a pick-up that looks like a spoon or beaver tail.

I had both parts in my hands and installed them both in succession on a real bike. Can't beat that for being sure...

Minh
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,208
581
Durham, NC
It's because the derailleur does not determine how much the chain will move with each shift. The derailleur is free to move between two points. The shifter determines how much the derailleur moves with each shift (ie: indexing). With the cassettes being different spacings between each gear from 8sp to 9sp to 10sp, the shifter has to match the cassette but not the derailleur. Which makes me think you should be able to use a 10sp shifter with a 10sp cassette, and 9sp derailleur. Or "8sp Derailleur" for that matter.
The geometry of the 9 and 10 speed derailleurs are different, so it's a no-go.
 

TWeerts

Monkey
Jan 7, 2007
471
0
The Area Bay
what about the position of the cable fixing bolt? for instance, if it were further up the parallelagram, that lever would rotate more slowly.

so, if your trying to pack another gear in the same spacing (9sp vs 10sp); it would be advantageous to slow the rotation of the parallelagram in order to have more precision to hit more # of gears? teh bran hurts