So let's say I took the sway bar off the front of my truck....

A properly engineered and R&D'd sway bar is not a band-aid. It is (in theory if not in practice) an integral, tuned and tested part of the entire suspension system as designed by the manufacturer. My understanding is that the OP has added aftermarket UCA's and coilovers to his truck. I would also guess that a taller wheel/tire package has been added. If that's the case, I would leave the sway bar on assuming it does not interfere with any other components.

Sway bars not only change roll rate (I apologize for what's probably improper terminology) but they also affect the oversteer/understeer characteristics of the vehicle. Most street vehicles leave the factory with a relatively stiffer front sway bar (or no rear) to keep them neutral or introduce some oversteer. Removing the front sway bar can create excessive oversteer during hard cornering. I'm not just talking about race cars. This is true for IFS trucks, radio controlled cars, Toyota Camrys...etc.

Removing the front sway bar will probably allow for better flex offroad. I have tried this with several vehicles and I found that it allowed much smoother droop, so that a wheel that might otherwise have been in the air would touch dirt. Unless your front diff is locked, though, a tire that is that unweighted to begin with will probably spin anyway.

Re: the Ford Super Duty response: I own one of these, and as far as I can tell, the front suspension design fundamentally limits any roll or articulation by design. If it were not for flex, twist, slop and soft bushings, the suspension would not be able to articulate at all.

BIGHITR said:

Speaking off... Anybody remember Ladder Bars?

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I do...... Great for drag racing....... Also great for getting a 4x4 stuck on a tree.....

stgil888 said:

A properly engineered and R&D'd sway bar is not a band-aid. It is (in theory if not in practice) an integral, tuned and tested part of the entire suspension system as designed by the manufacturer. My understanding is that the OP has added aftermarket UCA's and coilovers to his truck. I would also guess that a taller wheel/tire package has been added. If that's the case, I would leave the sway bar on assuming it does not interfere with any other components.

Sway bars not only change roll rate (I apologize for what's probably improper terminology) but they also affect the oversteer/understeer characteristics of the vehicle. Most street vehicles leave the factory with a relatively stiffer front sway bar (or no rear) to keep them neutral or introduce some oversteer. Removing the front sway bar can create excessive oversteer during hard cornering. I'm not just talking about race cars. This is true for IFS trucks, radio controlled cars, Toyota Camrys...etc.

Removing the front sway bar will probably allow for better flex offroad. I have tried this with several vehicles and I found that it allowed much smoother droop, so that a wheel that might otherwise have been in the air would touch dirt. Unless your front diff is locked, though, a tire that is that unweighted to begin with will probably spin anyway.

Re: the Ford Super Duty response: I own one of these, and as far as I can tell, the front suspension design fundamentally limits any roll or articulation by design. If it were not for flex, twist, slop and soft bushings, the suspension would not be able to articulate at all.

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Are you saying we're stupid?

jdcamb said:

Are you saying we're stupid?

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I think he said just go for disconnecting it...

CrabJoe StretchPants said:

I think he said just go for disconnecting it...

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Good. Because clearly we are the only ones who know what the phug we are talking about here.

Like to many chefs spoil the soup. To many smart people ruin the thread....

See dirt, we say really smart chit cuz that how we roll....

jdcamb said:

Good. Because clearly we are the only ones who know what the phug we are talking about here.

Like to many chefs spoil the soup. To many smart people ruin the thread....

See dirt, we say really smart chit cuz that how we roll....

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Pun?


45

CrabJoe StretchPants said:

Pun?


45

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Thats the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Obviously you're almost as smart as me. What you can do with 3 letters, a question mark, and the #45, it takes some of our more challenged monkies, whole sentences, with paragraphs and stuff, going on and on trying to make some aimless point to prop up thier puny, weak egos. Sad actually. Some people should actually smoke pot just so they can have an excuse. You my friend keep setting that bar higher and higher with each post. That and your handle. Keep up the good work....

Wow. Thick is the ignorance in here...and I just came from Pinkbike!
They're just swaybars. They do exactly what the name implies. No more, no less. First of all..I don't even know how you retained the front swaybar with LT. But I stopped wading through the stupid and shot straight to the end.

I put a Total Chaos kit on my 4Runner(read short and heavy!), and flog the effin Molly out of it. Once the body rolls to a certain point(and I'm talking seriously pushing it here) it'll simply transfer load to the rear and the rear will slide out and follow suit. It's actually VERY predictable. Keep the rear and even consider beefing up the rear anti sway system, but ditch the front so it can do what it needs to do.
What some of you are also forgetting is that when you go LT, not only are all the bushings upgraded to a much stiffer and stronger poly bushing(which eliminates any slop and play), but it also widens the front end SEVEN INCHES. That's a lot of regained stability.

Bad pic...
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5650310/

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5650310/

...and another with a LOADED trailer. Didn't really tone down the driving for it...

THRILLSEEKA said:

Wow. Thick is the ignorance in here...and I just came from Pinkbike!
They're just swaybars. They do exactly what the name implies. No more, no less. First of all..I don't even know how you retained the front swaybar with LT. But I stopped wading through the stupid and shot straight to the end.

I put a Total Chaos kit on my 4Runner(read short and heavy!), and flog the effin Molly out of it. Once the body rolls to a certain point(and I'm talking seriously pushing it here) it'll simply transfer load to the rear and the rear will slide out and follow suit. It's actually VERY predictable. Keep the rear and even consider beefing up the rear anti sway system, but ditch the front so it can do what it needs to do.
What some of you are also forgetting is that when you go LT, not only are all the bushings upgraded to a much stiffer and stronger poly bushing(which eliminates any slop and play), but it also widens the front end SEVEN INCHES. That's a lot of regained stability.

Bad pic...

...and another with a LOADED trailer. Didn't really tone down the driving for it...

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How does it handle a Police chase with the trailer?

Excess is pretty much the key to any fail, is it not? All you gotta do is not be a douchebag and ANYTHING can be safe. Or should I change that to "all you gotta do is be a total douchebag and anything CAN be unsafe?" I'm POSITIVE I could roll a Porsche 911 as quickly as I could my 4runner give the right opportunity. I run "lifted trucks being unsafe" right up there with "I'm too stupid to turn the key off in my out-of-control-Prius so I killed 13 familes with my stupidity" bracket. You just need to know how your junk works and know..and respect...its limits.

Oh...and I actually think the trailer would be an awesome anti-pit manuever aid! With an in-cab trailer disconnect, I could be James Effin Bond!

But the 6cyl says otherwise....

oversteer rocks! go for it!

THRILLSEEKA said:

Wow. Thick is the ignorance in here...and I just came from Pinkbike!
They're just swaybars. They do exactly what the name implies. No more, no less. ...

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You do realize.... I have a BA in automotive science, and I am a Master tech right? There is no ignorange in what I am listing

On your second part, thats ignorance..... There is alot mroe to sway bars than just what theya re called......... After taking a few months of suspension classes you might get it.

I understand widened front ends just fine, I also understand offroad suspension quite well.... But what I especially know, is how suspensions are suposed to work on the paved road.

THRILLSEEKA said:

Wow. Thick is the ignorance in here...and I just came from Pinkbike!
They're just swaybars. They do exactly what the name implies. No more, no less. First of all..I don't even know how you retained the front swaybar with LT. But I stopped wading through the stupid and shot straight to the end.

I put a Total Chaos kit on my 4Runner(read short and heavy!), and flog the effin Molly out of it. Once the body rolls to a certain point(and I'm talking seriously pushing it here) it'll simply transfer load to the rear and the rear will slide out and follow suit. It's actually VERY predictable. Keep the rear and even consider beefing up the rear anti sway system, but ditch the front so it can do what it needs to do.
What some of you are also forgetting is that when you go LT, not only are all the bushings upgraded to a much stiffer and stronger poly bushing(which eliminates any slop and play), but it also widens the front end SEVEN INCHES. That's a lot of regained stability.

Bad pic...
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5650310/

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5650310/

...and another with a LOADED trailer. Didn't really tone down the driving for it...

Click to expand...

So much fail in one post.

THRILLSEEKA said:

Oh...and I actually think the trailer would be an awesome anti-pit manuever aid! With an in-cab trailer disconnect, I could be James Effin Bond!

But the 6cyl says otherwise....

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There is still time for you to edit your posts. We would totally understand....

No need to edit. 6600 of highway miles in 3 months, can't recall really wishing I had a swaybar. Prob 500-1000 offroad miles as fast as my 6 banger would push, glad I didn't have one.
I love how someone with a DEGREE is going to argue with someone who has the actual subject, drives the **** out of it every day, and couldn't be happier with it. Yeah, my bud has a WyoTech degree in suspension design too...just got done building his rear four link because it jacked everytime he punched the throttle. Good luck with your degree on your wall, I'm gonna go drive my truck in the driveway.
Oh, maybe you should shoot the Trophy Truck boys some suggestions while you're at it, they only run rear swaybars too...but I guess it's not like they go fast over any uneven terrain or anything. I'm out.

I'm just going to note that the person acting like this is a great idea is a "thrill seeker", but obviously to a much greater extent. Not only that, but he's a THRILLSEEKA. He's obviously super hip and hardcore.

loco-gringo said:

I'm just going to note that the person acting like this is a great idea is a "thrill seeker", but obviously to a much greater extent. Not only that, but he's a THRILLSEEKA. He's obviously super hip and hardcore.

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Don't act like you know things... Like for instance what we are talking about.

THRILLSEEKA said:

No need to edit. 6600 of highway miles in 3 months, can't recall really wishing I had a swaybar. Prob 500-1000 offroad miles as fast as my 6 banger would push, glad I didn't have one.
I love how someone with a DEGREE is going to argue with someone who has the actual subject, drives the **** out of it every day, and couldn't be happier with it. Yeah, my bud has a WyoTech degree in suspension design too...just got done building his rear four link because it jacked everytime he punched the throttle. Good luck with your degree on your wall, I'm gonna go drive my truck in the driveway.
Oh, maybe you should shoot the Trophy Truck boys some suggestions while you're at it, they only run rear swaybars too...but I guess it's not like they go fast over any uneven terrain or anything. I'm out.

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Wow.... What a dumb****.....

You still have absolutly no idea what a sway bar actually does do you.... how bout shut up and learn something before telling people you know best.


Guess what dumbass... if I were building a trophy truck.... I wouldnt be putting a fckin sway bar on the front either... why would one ask... its a ****ing OFFROAD specific build.

WHY then would one ask me, a professional, you would want to keep the sway bar on your vehicle........... I dont give a flying **** how many miles you have on yoru truck what you have driven ETC....... This is simple, you dont understand what its actual purpose is, Yeah I get it you have driven all those miles and never felt you wish you had one......

I will say this again...... Compare it to a knee pad with riding..... For the majority of the time .... ON THE STREET, NOT OFFROAD....... a sway bar does....... wait for it....... Absolutly nothing..... just like a knee pad when you never crash. But when your in a corner, and something goes wrong....... you make a sudden correction and over bank the vehicle....... Finally your in a situation were the sway bar actually does something.... just like when you crash on your mountain bike into a rock pile... thats when your knee pads actually do something.......



You tell me you know better because you have the miles............ You come off with you dont know cause you havent driven it........... Would you like a giant shoe horn now to get yoru foot out of your mouth?

Guess what.... I have driven designed, built, tested, and ran the holy **** out of both on and off road suspensions...................

If you are as good as you say because you have driven it...... That means you should be able to go and take teh ASE test for steering and suspension and pass with no worries what soever right?




Oh, and for the record, Wyotech doesnt give a degree at all, they give a certificate, UTI in Arizona is the only one taht gives a degree.... and thats only an AA.... I have gone WAY further in my training from there

whose first?

DirtyMike said:

Oh, and for the record, Wyotech doesnt give a degree at all, they give a certificate, UTI in Arizona is the only one taht gives a degree.... and thats only an AA.... I have gone WAY further in my training from there

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If you were at Wyotech pre 2004 you would have gotten a degree. 2004 and after is when you got the certificates. Regardless I have never heard of anyone getting a "Suspension Design" degree from there.

And to be sorta on topic here, I took the sway bar off my car so I could go lower.

stiffer sway bars on lowered trucks is the suck. took my Hotchkis system off and put stock oversized bars back on.

hydro422 said:

If you were at Wyotech pre 2004 you would have gotten a degree. 2004 and after is when you got the certificates. Regardless I have never heard of anyone getting a "Suspension Design" degree from there.

And to be sorta on topic here, I took the sway bar off my car so I could go lower.

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I didnt go to Wyotech myself, I went elsewere...... No there isnt a suspension design degree......... Automotive sciences.......

Taking it off to go lower..... Seen that before too. Of curious reasons.... What car and how low?

DirtyMike said:

Taking it off to go lower..... Seen that before too. Of curious reasons.... What car and how low?

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Took it off my 76 El Camino when I bagged it, and also on my MkIV JTI, which is also bagged. The Camino is laying frame after some fab work and the JTI is almost to the ground, need to notch it so I can crush my pinch welds.

hydro422 said:

Took it off my 76 El Camino when I bagged it, and also on my MkIV JTI, which is also bagged. The Camino is laying frame after some fab work and the JTI is almost to the ground, need to notch it so I can crush my pinch welds.

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Different strokes..... Not my personal style but sound slike you have had some time and fun on your hands......... Yeah Sways would have to come off for somehting like that.........

Pics??

Yeah, lowered cars ain't for everyone, but to each his own. I think I'm just ignorant tho, everyone where I grew up had lifted trucks.
It sits a lil bit lower than than in this pic.

The Camino currently has a blown motor and is in a field behind my dads house, But the frame is resting nicely on the ground.

hydro422 said:

Yeah, lowered cars ain't for everyone, but to each his own. I think I'm just ignorant tho, everyone where I grew up had lifted trucks.
It sits a lil bit lower than than in this pic.
]

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Naw I dig a lowered car...... Just depends on what the car is, and what methods are used in the lowering process....... In my head what I would want on the Elcamino would be nice and low, but not on bags... for me its just alot of work and tire replacements.... the Camaro I would probably want to keep close to stock height, if anything maybe an in lower....... Not saying anything bad, just difference in style is all.......