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One way to make Dual Slalom better

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
669
0
San Jose, CA
My Tivo recently recorded the City Parallel in Munich event. This was a ski dual slalom in Munich with huge crowds. As far as ski racing goes, it was an exciting event to watch.

Now as far as our DS goes, one complaint that always arises when the talk of taking DS mainstream is that it is too difficult for the normal person to understand. I never quite understood this lack of understanding..., but I guess the aveage Joe with a six pack of Bud in him may struggle with the time difference and how the loser of the second run can actually be the winner of the race.

Anyhow, the City Parallel used the time difference of the first run, and delayed the losers gate from opening by that time difference for the second run. So the net result is that whoever wins the second run is the winner. Pretty simple stuff, and one less argument against DS. I'm not a ski racing expert but it appeared that this was new to skiing because the announcers had to keep reminding themselves that the winner of run 2 was the winner, regardless of time difference.

I like this approach because it gives the rider who is behind a rabbit to chase and could make for more exciting finishes. It also relieves Joe six-pack from trying to do the math in his head.

Has anyone used this approach in DS before. I thought someone did it years ago but not sure.



On a slightly different note, I would like to see these gates (used in ski-, boardercross) that open around waist level to be tried with 4x instead of a normal gate. It would make the races less predictable I think, and the BMX snap less critical.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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Now as far as our DS goes, one complaint that always arises when the talk of taking DS mainstream is that it is too difficult for the normal person to understand. I never quite understood this lack of understanding..., but I guess the aveage Joe with a six pack of Bud in him may struggle with the time difference and how the loser of the second run can actually be the winner of the race.
you mean double elimination? that IS quite a stretch for people who's primary racing interest consists of watching a bunch of billboards drive in a circle.
 

bobsten

Monkey
Oct 23, 2008
240
0
rain rain go away
You'd have to have a gate that only drops one at a time, this technology is certainly around but how do you get it to drop at exactly .05 of a second? Those races can get even tighter than that so riders may argue that... I am surprised the King of the Mountain Series never implemented that though.
 
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Eastern States Cup

Turbo Monkey
Feb 29, 2008
2,465
2
East Coast
On the east coast ds and 4x are a money losing deal for promoters. I highly doubt any one would invest the thousands of dollars such a timing system would cost.

3x or 2 out of 3 ds with no timing required and on grass is a solution that we MAY try at Eastern States Cup races in 2011.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
On the east coast ds and 4x are a money losing deal for promoters. I highly doubt any one would invest the thousands of dollars such a timing system would cost.

3x or 2 out of 3 ds with no timing required and on grass is a solution that we MAY try at Eastern States Cup races in 2011.
I know 4X is a loosing battle, but i dont see how duel slalom would be so bad, if you went and made 2 trials like diablo i could see it, but just 6 inch high berms on the ski slope, few little jumps, i would think you could get a fun little track in a days time with a bobcat. I may have lower standards than some, but i think it would be fun, maybe a few mtns get together and split the bill on the gate? rent 1?
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,882
2,133
not in Whistler anymore :/
first, an event like this NEEDS to be in a big city to gather large crowds like this. remember the district ride event in nuremberg a few years ago? it also attracted large crowds in a time when slopestyle events where really rare. so don't talk about events at diablo or "the east coast", talk about urban racing events in big cities. else, you can forget about big crowds...
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
first, an event like this NEEDS to be in a big city to gather large crowds like this. remember the district ride event in nuremberg a few years ago? it also attracted large crowds in a time when slopestyle events where really rare. so don't talk about events at diablo or "the east coast", talk about urban racing events in big cities. else, you can forget about big crowds...
i cant think of any place near me that can pull that off :(
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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i cant think of any place near me that can pull that off :(
think harder. you need what, not even a hundred feet of elevation to make a ds course?

one thought... team up with local XC race promoters... here in NJ xc races tend to be pretty well attended. Might be a good place to start.
 

TheTruth

Turbo Monkey
Jun 15, 2009
3,893
1
I'm waving. Can you see me now?
think harder. you need what, not even a hundred feet of elevation to make a ds course?

one thought... team up with local XC race promoters... here in NJ xc races tend to be pretty well attended. Might be a good place to start.
Yes. XC races are very well attended. I am sure a local shop would be down to do it. What we need is a public DS park and we are good to go!
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
think harder. you need what, not even a hundred feet of elevation to make a ds course?

one thought... team up with local XC race promoters... here in NJ xc races tend to be pretty well attended. Might be a good place to start.
I dont think its really the elevation that is the problem, Its a few fundamental problems i think, you racing on pavement, seems like a DS duryea event to start, you have to get streets closed (could be a problem) Jumps have to be wood as well as berms and what not (most cities dont wana dump tons of dirt into the road, to get washed into sewers) Insurance, still need a gate/timing, if you do it in the cities (at least where i live) people may watch, but i dont see it paying for itself, and if you wanted to do it on a baseball field where its not pavement, your chances get even worse.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Yes. XC races are very well attended. I am sure a local shop would be down to do it. What we need is a public DS park and we are good to go!
get some friends together to help volunteer to mark the course run the event etc as part of a larger race governing body (convince them to handle registration :brows: )

I dont think its really the elevation that is the problem, Its a few fundamental problems i think, you racing on pavement, seems like a DS duryea event to start, you have to get streets closed (could be a problem) Jumps have to be wood as well as berms and what not (most cities dont wana dump tons of dirt into the road, to get washed into sewers) Insurance, still need a gate/timing, if you do it in the cities (at least where i live) people may watch, but i dont see it paying for itself, and if you wanted to do it on a baseball field where its not pavement, your chances get even worse.

i want what you're smoking. how big of a slalom course are you imagining? this is real life, not Downhill Domination.
 

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
669
0
San Jose, CA
On the east coast ds and 4x are a money losing deal for promoters. I highly doubt any one would invest the thousands of dollars such a timing system would cost.

3x or 2 out of 3 ds with no timing required and on grass is a solution that we MAY try at Eastern States Cup races in 2011.
Cost of timing is the big downside that I see. However, it's not any more than is required for 4x. Also, there are probably a few idle gates sitting around in the summer at various resorts. I'm sure some of them would like a few extra bucks by renting them out to MTB oraganizations.

For smaller series and grassroots racing then yes the timing system can be expensive.
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
848
242
You'd think that, course-wise, it wouldn't be significantly harder than setting up a cyclocross course, although the timing is a different issue.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
i want what you're smoking. how big of a slalom course are you imagining? this is real life, not Downhill Domination.
You work in F.L., can you think of a place in there to do it, all the cities near there are like that, mine being worse. There are places with woods, like skyline, but i dont see anybody taming the woods for a temporary DS track.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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You work in F.L., can you think of a place in there to do it, all the cities near there are like that, mine being worse. There are places with woods, like skyline, but i dont see anybody taming the woods for a temporary DS track.
who said it had to be in the woods? diablo is the only place i can think of offhand who's ever had a "dual" slalom course in the woods, and they only built it there so they don't have to tear it down before and rebuild it after ski season.

all you need is an open field with a reasonable amount of slope.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
all you need is an open field with a reasonable amount of slope that isnt a baseball or soccer field, and can be insured by the town and make money
fixed

Ih8rice, pavement was in regards to doing it in a city, most cities (at least near me) dont have empty grassy hills, they are turned into houses or soccer fields. I figure pavement is 1 of the more realistic approach
 

Tetreault

Monkey
Nov 23, 2005
877
0
SoMeWhErE NoWhErE
in my city we have done group rides that include a single elimination type urban DS. pretty simple, mark out a route in your mind and two buddies give it **** down the hill, over the obstacles ect... it doesnt cost anything, and you win bragging rights which is the best prize of all. Your still racing and having fun that's what its all about
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
I remember way back in the day Northstar had one laid out up on one of its slopes during the summer.
 

Pip3r

Turbo Monkey
Nov 20, 2001
1,112
0
Foxboro MA
Back to the original point of offset gate starts - sounds like a really cool format! There was such debate for years over gate starts and whether they should have a cadence or not - the offset would be different enough from BMX to keep things interesting!