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Most "unique" feeling suspension system?

Hesh To Steel

Monkey
Dec 12, 2007
661
1
Hell's Kitchen
So to start off, this isn't a thread about "which bike to buy" or "which suspension setup is better". I'm just wondering, for those of you who've spent time on multiple DH bikes what you consider to be the most unusual or non-conventional feeling setup.

I've heard people on this andother forums say things like "You have to try the rail system on the Yeti to understand what I mean" and I've heard similar comments made about the massive rearward travel on the Jedi.

I've only ever ridden one DH bike so I'm curious to see what peoples' thoughts are. Also it's winter, and if I can't ride bikes I'm damn well going to type about them on the internet.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
448
I've only seen one of these, and it was this poor kid who bought it off the internet from another guy, brought it into our shop, and it had THE worst rear end slop I've ever seen. I mean, BAD. Like, it seemed like the back end wanted to fall off.

So yes, I could see how that could be "unique".
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
i had one of these for a few weeks thanks to our Cdale rep at the time. utter crap, even for its time. it musta been hard for the pros to really ride them when the suspension basically locked out in certain gears
 

FCLinder

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2002
4,402
0
Greenville, South Carolina
Wow, I remember an Older Dude racing one of those things here in the South somewhere in the late 90's. He said that the only reason he was so fast (Cat 3 racer) was because of that bike. I still remember Jeremy R. spiting all over me, while laughing, when he said it.

I have been racing on SP and VVP designed bikes over the past 13 or 14 years. I like a bike that is between the two. In other words not a true SP design like an Orange, but a design like the Old DHR, TR450, Morewood Makulu, Trek Session, etc. The SP to me tended to hang up in rocks, pedal feedback, and brake jack. Where the VVP didn't have these problems, but did blow through the travel easy, and didn't pop out of the turns like I liked. Now understand this can change under bike setup, but I tend to run my suspension soft. What I like in a design is, ramp up on the suspension, poppy feeling, pedals like a rocket, doesn't get hung up in the rocks,and rails turns.

Once again, just about any design out there these days can achieve the above.

Hope this helps some,
Cecil
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey


nothing like it, it just accelerates, let me know when you go to diablo and you can take it for a run, hit a berm and it shoots out of it, hits rocks and just goes faster, its not a marketing gimmic, its nuts, i had a 303, i give the rails a "meh"
 

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
Interesting, those two designs are quite similar kinematically. And to be honest, it looks like that design should work really well in terms of where the virtual pivot migrates. I wonder what made them suck? Maybe it was just the shock and/or leverage curve? I never realized the KHS had an idler...I wonder if that was an add on to try and fix the high virtual pivot...
 

gollub01

Chimp
Sep 10, 2010
50
0
jh wyoming
I agree.....ive ridden everything out there, the Canfield Jedi is hard to beat. I love the 2010, cant wait to build up my 2011. Great bikes-
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
The VST prototype FTW made several years ago. Of all the bikes I've ridden, that design was truely unique. Alot of companies boast active suspension and efficent pedaling, but that was the only bike I rode that truely "pedaled like a hardtail"(literally) and seemingly lost no speed in the rough stuff. Still bummed that bike never happened, and that he never sold the design to someone with the means to bring it to market.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout
The VST prototype FTW made several years ago. Of all the bikes I've ridden, that design was truely unique. Alot of companies boast active suspension and efficent pedaling, but that was the only bike I rode that truely "pedaled like a hardtail"(literally) and seemingly lost no speed in the rough stuff. Still bummed that bike never happened, and that he never sold the design to someone with the means to bring it to market.
i sure hope he hasn't forgotten about that
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,037
7,554
My lengthening-wheelbase Canfield F1 felt pretty weird. Not easy to loft the front wheel on that one.

 

quickneonrt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2003
1,611
0
Staten Island NY


nothing like it, it just accelerates, let me know when you go to diablo and you can take it for a run, hit a berm and it shoots out of it, hits rocks and just goes faster, its not a marketing gimmic, its nuts, i had a 303, i give the rails a "meh"
if the Jedi is so great why buy a new Demo????
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,908
634
hey, you got a session too!

trek vs specialized vs canfield bros GO!

but seriously. I vote this as the most unique:

 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
My lengthening-wheelbase Canfield F1 felt pretty weird. Not easy to loft the front wheel on that one.

Love that bike had 2, pull up and it pushes backwards on the travel and stays glued.... If you want a bike that literally motos the $h!t out of a BIG nasty rock garden then this is the bike.... Holy crap I did a few drops to rocks on it and it mowed over it (blind landing and I suffer CRS too left) the wheels got destroyed 2 times on the rear in a month but the bike felt amazing in the nasty...
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
Love that bike had 2, pull up and it pushes backwards on hte travel and stays glued.... If you want a bike that literally motos the $h!t out of a BIG nasty rock garden then this is the bike.... Holy crap I did a few drops to rocks on it and it mowed over it (blind landing and I suffer CRS too left) the wheels got destroyed 2 times on hte rear in a month but hte bike felt amazing in the nasty...
isnt this the same as a jedi, just longer static geo?
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
isnt this the same as a jedi, just longer static geo?
LOL the jedi is SO much more nimble and pop friendly compared to the F1.... The f1 I got to where I could manual and wheelie it I had the jedi side by side and I flipped over on the jedi first wheelie... LOL hit the ground hard, the jedi corners beter but for a hash and mash a rock garden bike it corned well and yeah bringing the front end up off the ground took getting used to....It did really well on single track as well but it evolved for the better... I still have my white front triangle here Im looking for links and a rear to rebuild it for a drop bike....
 

flymybike

Monkey
Jan 7, 2004
260
0
Jackson Hole
That's how I've felt on high, single pivot bikes (very rearward path in first half of travel). How does the Jedi's wheel path differ from the F1's?
My lengthening-wheelbase Canfield F1 felt pretty weird. Not easy to loft the front wheel on that one.

Nice, thats a proto 2005 F1! Sweet bike. It's not the wheel path making that F1 front hard to lift, it was the chainstay length. The Jedi is an inch shorter CS so at sag, now your about 1/4" shorter than you typical DH frame. That helps you lift the front easier and also speeds up the corners. The long stays (17") on the old F1's made it great for hucking and being able to keep it together on the landings.
 

Hesh To Steel

Monkey
Dec 12, 2007
661
1
Hell's Kitchen


nothing like it, it just accelerates, let me know when you go to diablo and you can take it for a run, hit a berm and it shoots out of it, hits rocks and just goes faster, its not a marketing gimmic, its nuts, i had a 303, i give the rails a "meh"
Thanks dude. I might take you up on that sometime this season.


Any of you guys ridden any DH bikes with pull shocks? Any interesting characteristics there? I think Sunn had a pull-shock based DH frame, right?
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
pics? or top secret?


The red bumper on the linkage sat against the chainstay yoke and essentially "locked out" the suspension while pedaling, but if your wheel hit any thing the bumper was overcame by the natural suspension movement and it acted like it should. The other aspect of it was how the hand in the picture is picking up on the chainstay, moving the bumper away from the chainstay - so the rear end could move backwards for sqaure edged hits. From how he explained it, the axle didn't move in a path, but moved freely with a range depending on how it was activated. It truely rode like that too. Whether the enginerds will confirm or criticize it, I dont know; but it was a really impressive riding bike in person.
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout


The red bumper on the linkage sat against the chainstay yoke and essentially "locked out" the suspension while pedaling, but if your wheel hit any thing the bumper was overcame by the natural suspension movement and it acted like it should. The other aspect of it was how the hand in the picture is picking up on the chainstay, moving the bumper away from the chainstay - so the rear end could move backwards for sqaure edged hits. From how he explained it, the axle didn't move in a path, but moved freely with a range depending on how it was activated. It truely rode like that too. Whether the enginerds will confirm or criticize it, I dont know; but it was a really impressive riding bike in person.
yea the bumper was just a stop adjuster for the lower linkage. my understanding was that the lower linkage was more active for small bump stuff, but then when you hit something larger the bumper would lock out the lower linkage and the upper linkage would take over. IIRC the bumper height was adjustable so you could tweak where this transition point was.


edit: here's the thread about it when it first turned up
 

altix

Monkey
Feb 14, 2007
407
0
My 2006 V10 with an extra hole drilled in the upper shock mount. Lowered the BB by an inch and had an INSANE amount of ramp at the end of travel. Maybe I put it in the wrong place but the first 70% of travel felt completely normal. Then right after that on a big hit the suspension would just sorta ramp like 90degrees on a graph. it was insane. sure corned well though. way slack too. best bike ive had ever.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
My 2006 V10 with an extra hole drilled in the upper shock mount. Lowered the BB by an inch and had an INSANE amount of ramp at the end of travel. Maybe I put it in the wrong place but the first 70% of travel felt completely normal. Then right after that on a big hit the suspension would just sorta ramp like 90degrees on a graph. it was insane. sure corned well though. way slack too. best bike ive had ever.
Same length shock? Where was the hole drilled compared to the stock upper hole?
 

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,347
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
My 2006 V10 with an extra hole drilled in the upper shock mount. Lowered the BB by an inch and had an INSANE amount of ramp at the end of travel. Maybe I put it in the wrong place but the first 70% of travel felt completely normal. Then right after that on a big hit the suspension would just sorta ramp like 90degrees on a graph. it was insane. sure corned well though. way slack too. best bike ive had ever.
Pic's or it didn't happen. :D
 

illnotsick

Monkey
Jun 3, 2009
257
0
My 2006 V10 with an extra hole drilled in the upper shock mount. Lowered the BB by an inch and had an INSANE amount of ramp at the end of travel. Maybe I put it in the wrong place but the first 70% of travel felt completely normal. Then right after that on a big hit the suspension would just sorta ramp like 90degrees on a graph. it was insane. sure corned well though. way slack too. best bike ive had ever.
I've been curious to try this, I think a little lower bb would really make it corner better.