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Roco Air WC on DW-link. Low enough LSC?

DirtyMartini

Chimp
Nov 23, 2010
25
0
San Diego
I'm thinking of putting a Roco WC Air on my IH 6Point.

This frame uses a DW-link which is low leverage (thus requiring low damping settings) and it's a DW-link and thus performs best with especially low LSC damping.

Does anyone know for sure (please don't just speculate or guess) if an "off the self" Roco WC Air can achieve low enough LSC damping for a DW-link bike? Or, will it need something like a "Sunday tune" (as the WC Coil does) to achieve the right LSC damping for this frame?
 

miuan

Monkey
Jan 12, 2007
395
0
Bratislava, Slovakia
Reshimming a roco is not that hard. Despite being a hack, I did it at home. Not sure about the roco air, but unless it uses some internal sealed negative chamber, it shouldn't be much harder.
I would strongly recommend that you try the roco air before purchase. I didn't and it felt terible on my devinci. The air spring was very firm in the beginning of stroke, then it dove right to the bottom. Didn't feel too stable.
 

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,263
177
Jersey Shore
Reshimming a roco is not that hard. Despite being a hack, I did it at home. Not sure about the roco air, but unless it uses some internal sealed negative chamber, it shouldn't be much harder.
I would strongly recommend that you try the roco air before purchase. I didn't and it felt terible on my devinci. The air spring was very firm in the beginning of stroke, then it dove right to the bottom. Didn't feel too stable.
I liked it on my Supreme MDH, especially after using the DHX5 air that seemed to blow through travel. The ROCO seemed to hold the bike higher in the travel..

OP: what shock are you running now? and what are you trying to achieve by switching to a ROCO?
 

DirtyMartini

Chimp
Nov 23, 2010
25
0
San Diego
I liked it on my Supreme MDH, especially after using the DHX5 air that seemed to blow through travel. The ROCO seemed to hold the bike higher in the travel..

OP: what shock are you running now? and what are you trying to achieve by switching to a ROCO?
The frame is an IH 6Point. I do all mountain and some light free riding.
I originally had a DHX Air 5.0, it actually felt pretty good on big hits, but felt dead through gnar. Found a good deal on a Roco WC coil and had it custom tuned/revalved for my weight, style, frame. The Roco Coil feel really good through gnar, but big hit is kind of harsh. I'm 95% sure I've got the correct spring (350#), tried a 400# which was too stiff, can't imagine a 300# being stiff enough. Maybe I just need to dial in the HSC on the Roco Coil? It's currently on the lightest compression setting and still harsh landing. Not sure if I'm blowing through travel to and bottoming or if there's too much damping and I'm not getting enough travel on big hit.
The roco WC is my first coil shock, so maybe I just prefer the feel of air? There's some good deals on Roco WC Air shocks right now so I was thinking of trying one out to see if it'd be good enough. Plus the Roco Coil is a brick chunk of a shock w/ marz steel coil. I'd consider going Ti if I got the Roco Coil dialed in just how I like. But if the air will perform at 90% of the coil, might as well save the weight and the money.
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
I loved the roco wc coil on my 6point. You probably need to add air pressure on your wc coil so it ramps up at the end of travel.
 

DirtyMartini

Chimp
Nov 23, 2010
25
0
San Diego
I loved the roco wc coil on my 6point. You probably need to add air pressure on your wc coil so it ramps up at the end of travel.
Another 6Point/Roco Coil rider in San Diego, what are the odds? Thanks for the feed back! I'll try some higher pressures. I'm currently at the lowest recommended air pressure to encourage the bike to use it's 7" of travel (2.75" stroke, not 2.5").

92SE-R, how much do you weigh all geared up? Did you get a low compression tune? What PSI and Spring rate are you running?
 
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92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
I think your bottoming out if it feels harsh with a 350lb coil. I weigh around 150 and used a 300lb coil with the lowest air pressure, like 170 or something. What do you mean by big hits? Square edged rocks at high speed or drops to flat? Id back off the hsc a bit so you are more supple on square edged hits and it looks like you need to air up to the max to ramp up the progression all the way. The roco has always felt bottomless to me. I'm running a crappy dhx5 right now waiting for avy to come out with their dhx mod. I miss my roco
 

DirtyMartini

Chimp
Nov 23, 2010
25
0
San Diego
I think your bottoming out if it feels harsh with a 350lb coil. I weigh around 150 and used a 300lb coil with the lowest air pressure, like 170 or something. What do you mean by big hits? Square edged rocks at high speed or drops to flat? Id back off the hsc a bit so you are more supple on square edged hits and it looks like you need to air up to the max to ramp up the progression all the way. The roco has always felt bottomless to me. I'm running a crappy dhx5 right now waiting for avy to come out with their dhx mod. I miss my roco
I weigh 190 with all my gear. I should have been more clear about "big hit." What I meant was drops onto a down hill slope. So not to flat, but not onto the other side of nice steep double either. Are you familiar with att? The medium sized drops and jumps at att are what I have in mind.
I've had the HSC turned all the down most of the time, so I can't back it off any more.

Sometimes I think about have avy do the $179 tune on my roco, but I'd hate to spend that money only to find out I was running the wrong HSC setting, air pressure, or spring.
 

tuumbaq

Monkey
Jul 5, 2006
725
0
Squamish BC
How can you not be 100% sure you are running the correct spring rate?Why are you only 95% sure ?

Seems like you may be relying on the actual number off the spring which would be a mistake.

You have to physically measure you sag FIRST.Spring rate can be (and 99% of the time they are) off by as much as 70-80 lbs ...Your #400 could in fact be a #435 and your #350 a #325 giving you the impression something is wrong with the shock.

Unless if you have a way to accurately measure the force of the spring I would highly recommend you make sure you achieve the right sag when sitting on your bike...Then , if you still have issues with it and your bike allows it ( im not squite sure what your frame is.. 6" or more? ) I would buy myself an Push RP23 with a boost valve.Perfect air shock for a trail bike IMO

I havent had a lot of experience with the Rocco but from what I have , it was nothing special , certainly no better than the coil version...
 

DirtyMartini

Chimp
Nov 23, 2010
25
0
San Diego
How can you not be 100% sure you are running the correct spring rate?Why are you only 95% sure ?

Seems like you may be relying on the actual number off the spring which would be a mistake.

You have to physically measure you sag FIRST.Spring rate can be (and 99% of the time they are) off by as much as 70-80 lbs ...Your #400 could in fact be a #435 and your #350 a #325 giving you the impression something is wrong with the shock.

Unless if you have a way to accurately measure the force of the spring I would highly recommend you make sure you achieve the right sag when sitting on your bike...Then , if you still have issues with it and your bike allows it ( im not squite sure what your frame is.. 6" or more? ) I would buy myself an Push RP23 with a boost valve.Perfect air shock for a trail bike IMO

I havent had a lot of experience with the Rocco but from what I have , it was nothing special , certainly no better than the coil version...
The only reason I'm not 100% sure I have the right coil is because I don't have a lot of experience with coil shocks. I'm 95% certain because I've got the correct amount of sag, achieved that sag with an appropriate amount of preload, because a 350# spring is what other riders of my weight are using on their 6Point, because 350# is what all the online spring calculators recommend, because 350# is what my shock tune shop recommended, and because when simply bouncing around on it in the parking lot it feels about right for my weight. But you're totally, right I could have a spring that's way off. My bike has a 2.5:1 linkage ratio so I'll unload the preload, sit on the bike, measure how much the spring compresses and mathematically back out the springs actual spring rate.

I guess the first thing to figure out is if I'm blowing through all my travel and bottoming out or if I'm getting too little travel (due to too much spring and/or HSC damping).
 
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tuumbaq

Monkey
Jul 5, 2006
725
0
Squamish BC
The only reason I'm not 100% sure I have the right coil is because I don't have a lot of experience with coil shocks. I'm 95% certain because I've got the correct amount of sag, achieved that sag with an appropriate amount of preload, because a 350# spring is what other riders of my weight are using on their 6Point, because 350# is what all the online spring calculators recommend, because 350# is what my shock tune shop recommended, and because when simply bouncing around on it in the parking lot it feels about right for my weight. But you're totally, right I could have a spring that's way off. My bike has a 2.5:1 linkage ratio so I'll unload the preload, sit on the bike, measure how much the spring compresses and mathematically back out the springs actual spring rate.

I guess the first thing to figure out is if I'm blowing through all my travel and bottoming out or if I'm getting too little travel (due to too much spring and/or HSC damping).

Not too sure how to read your reply but I wasnt trying to be an ass just so you know..Its a common mistake most people do.Seems like you already have measured your sag so thats good start...What other riders of your weight are running on their bikes is purely irrelevant, simply because each different springs have different forces ( and also because 95 % of those guys probably just went by the number and never actually measured the sag ;))Spring calculator is there to help getting in you in the ball park but again , once you have an idea, you cant just go out and buy a spring that "should " be ok...chances are, it wont, trust me, it'll be off for sure....its a drag but you just cant rely on those # and you have to make sure it is right...this is especially true with low leverage bikes . . .

Now the thing is...the Rocco air isnt better and wont magically solve your problem...its basically the same as you already have on there only not as good. Air<Coil.

Hope you can figure this out, without having to spend to much $$$$ . . . good luck my friend !
 
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DirtyMartini

Chimp
Nov 23, 2010
25
0
San Diego
Not too sure how to read your reply but I wasnt trying to be an ass just so you know..Its a common mistake most people do.Seems like you already have measured your sag so thats good start...What other riders of your weight are running on their bikes is purely irrelevant, simply because each different springs have different forces ( and also because 95 % of those guys probably just went by the number and never actually measured the sag ;))Spring calculator is there to help getting in you in the ball park but again , once you have an idea, you cant just go out and buy a spring that "should " be ok...chances are, it wont, trust me, it'll be off for sure....its a drag but you just cant rely on those # and you have to make sure it is right...this is especially true with low leverage bikes . . .

Now the thing is...the Rocco air isnt better and wont magically solve your problem...its basically the same as you already have on there only not as good. Air<Coil.

Hope you can figure this out, without having to spend to much $$$$ . . . good luck my friend !
I'm sorry, I didn't take what you where saying as being an ass, and I wasn't trying to be an ass in response, but now I see how it could look that way. I was just trying to be thorough. Thanks for being understanding and not getting pissed right away.

Regarding the air, I'm assuming it's much lighter than the coil, so I was going to buy one, try it out, and see if it's worth it, sell it if not, but don't want to do that if the air's LSC will need revalving.
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
Stay with the coil. Try upping the air pressure. Its free to try. Imo, you need to set your sag first and air up before you start worrying about doing a tune. Do about a 30% sag to get started. In your attack position, measure your eye to eye. 8.75 - your sagged eye to eye should be 30% of 2.75.