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ZTR Flow vs. 721's

Pegboy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 20, 2003
1,139
27
New Hamp-sha
I'm going to get a new wheel set and was planning on 721's on Hope's. If I go through CRC they would run about $425. The other consideration would be the ZTR Flows, which would be an extra $20+. I've never run UST and may not even if I had the option, but I would have the option with the ZTR's and they would be lighter by about 50+g's.

I found an old thread regarding the ZTR's and transcend was running them, amongst others, and claimed they were more durable than the 721's. I know neither are going to be bomb proof but am wondering if they are really comparable or not and or if there is a clear advantage from one to the other.

It seems like CRC's stock on Hope hubs is very limited and, right now, the only option would be blue hubs...which I don't want, so if anybody has any suggestions for a wheel supplier let me know.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
the flow builds less stiff (requires lower spoke tension), is not UST (you still need the same tape and tim strip as any other rim), but overall holds togther well.

you might also look at dt ex500, mavic en521 as well as the ex721.
 

cowman

Monkey
Oct 17, 2004
227
2
Seattle, WA
I love my flows, though I haven't had much time on 721's aside from some dirt jumping. I find the light and stiff feel of the flows makes my bike much more nimble and gives an effortless feel. Check them out, you won't be disappointed.
 

MattPatt

Monkey
Apr 3, 2008
111
0
A, A
I've had experience with both and found that the ZTR rim, built right and maintained, will last as long or longer than the 721. As you point out, neither are going to take the abuse of heavy DH rim, but myself and the 12 other riders on my team race them all season long and we feel that the weight to strength trade off is spot on if it's performance you seek.

As you pointed out, the ability to run tubeless, with just the yellow rim tape and valve core, is a very nice feature of the ZTR too. The rim bead works makes setup a cinch and helps prevent burping. For the non-tubeless crowd out there, I've also personally experienced far fewer pinch flats with this rim than with the other wheels I've run in the past. These days ZTR Flow rims is the only rim I use, for DH, AM, DJ.

Hope that helps
 

Dwdrums00

Monkey
Mar 31, 2007
224
0
With the Flows if you want to run tubeless you will still need to run the rim strips.
Negative, you have been misinformed. I am running flows without rim strips on non UST tires and they seal perfect. On my 721's I am running stans rim strips on non UST tires and they seal ok.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
^i'm confuzzled. unlike a ust rim, you still need to seal off the spoke holes, no? whether w/ rim strips, gorilla tape, or w/e?
They come with a special yellow rim tape installed and sealed. You can just drop a tire on and go to town.

They also include a rimstrip for it incase you have a beat up old tire, but i've never needed to use them with DH tires.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,289
5,029
Ottawa, Canada
^i'm confuzzled. unlike a ust rim, you still need to seal off the spoke holes, no? whether w/ rim strips, gorilla tape, or w/e?
yes, you still need to seal the holes. you can do this with tape, rather than with a full rubber rim strip.

I ran flows on my trail bike (I'm now on Archs). I hadn't really considered them to be DH rims. I recently purchased a 721 for my DH bike, assuming it's a DH rim. If the Flow is as strong as the 721, then I'm a little bummed caus' I had a spare Flow rim sitting around... but on the bright side, I now have a spare rim sitting around that I can use for my DH bike!
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
They come with a special yellow rim tape installed and sealed. You can just drop a tire on and go to town.

They also include a rimstrip for it incase you have a beat up old tire, but i've never needed to use them with DH tires.
Strange. My flows came with no special rim tape. Bought a tape from the same company that makes caffe latex.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
In my experience (5 seasons on Flows), they are as strong or stronger than 721s, which is what I ran before Notubes stuff. The Flows have been taking a beating on my DH bikes, Archs on my trail bike and hopefully a set of the new "real" dh rim sometime shortly.

Although, I doubt I will stay on them, as the flows are more than enough for my 140lbs of slow moving fury.
 

etabs

Chimp
Jan 22, 2010
16
0
Montreal, quebec, Canada
i ran the flows all summer last year and i was really surprised at how well they help up. I went to 3 or 4 races, to weeks in whistler, and the rest of the season riding in bromont and i ended up with a few very small dents in the back rim, but the truing was super easy... well, the back one lasted until i cased a drop and the it cracked, but it was a bad case and it properly would have happened to most rims anyways.
 

Supa8

Monkey
May 3, 2002
493
0
Middle of MA
In my experience (5 seasons on Flows), they are as strong or stronger than 721s, which is what I ran before Notubes stuff. The Flows have been taking a beating on my DH bikes, Archs on my trail bike and hopefully a set of the new "real" dh rim sometime shortly.

Although, I doubt I will stay on them, as the flows are more than enough for my 140lbs of slow moving fury.

Are you running tubes or tubeless? Just got a Stans Flow wheelset built but still running Maxxis FR tube in the back and a welterweight up front. Curious how those running tubes had faired and with what tubes were used.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Are you running tubes or tubeless? Just got a Stans Flow wheelset built but still running Maxxis FR tube in the back and a welterweight up front. Curious how those running tubes had faired and with what tubes were used.
I've done both. Tubes right now due to frequent tire changes for weather. They both work great!
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
yes, you still need to seal the holes. you can do this with tape, rather than with a full rubber rim strip.
how is this different than a conventional rim? just a more airtight bead lock interface? i'm guessing there might be other (non tubeless specific) rims that work similarly (assuming welded seam)... hmm...
 

MattPatt

Monkey
Apr 3, 2008
111
0
A, A
I've done both. Tubes right now due to frequent tire changes for weather. They both work great!
2nd that, I'm tubleless right now running Spec Hillbillys on one set of wheels and Butchers on the other, makes for quick changes depending on conditions. If I'm testing tires I swap to tubes, since the sealant can be a bit of a mess... But experience racing DH on tubeless has been pretty positive. Get the occasional burp, but the amount of air loss isn't significant.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,289
5,029
Ottawa, Canada
how is this different than a conventional rim? just a more airtight bead lock interface? i'm guessing there might be other (non tubeless specific) rims that work similarly (assuming welded seam)... hmm...
it's the profile of the sidewall and bead hook interface. It's designed to work with tubeless specific tires. other than that, they are no different really.

Transcend, thanks for the info, that's interesting to hear about the 721 vs Flows. I'm replacing the front wheel on my trailbike with Archs on a King hub, so I'll have a full extra front wheel laced on a Flow. That might even allow me to try tubeless on my DH bike. Will a standard DHF (non-UST) fit well on a Flow?
 

miuan

Monkey
Jan 12, 2007
395
0
Bratislava, Slovakia
I couldn't get a 2.5 2-ply hi-roller to seal on new flow rim. On the contrary, a 4-year old Wetscream sealed on my rear 823 with zero problems. I was too lazy and disillusioned to try again, but it definitely feels like the 823 or stan's strip are less hassle to set up with standard tires.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Wont be running 721s again I cracked mine first practice run and ha e pretty well destroyed it fast...my weight combined with charging nasty lines didn't work out so well for it.....

If you are lighter and smooth its a solid rim...if I were lighter id lace up 721s again....was told by stans id destroy there stuff too...

So same thing lighter and smoother linechoice goes along ways as far as build spec.....got a buddy beatingon flows but he's 150lbs so no issues....
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,086
0
A, A
running 721s at the moment and love them. Thinking of building up some flows as in have the rims but undecided to put them on the dh or trail bike. Im 200lb and not the smoothest of riders. Usually get a season out of a rear 721 and replace them because the sidewalls are dinged badly. Do you think id get away with the flows ? Also anyone tried running continental rain kings or kaisers tubeless on them?
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
I actually like DT EX500s better than Flows. They build stiffer, are only ~25g heavier, and have held up better for me historically. DT took a lot of grief over their first 6.1Ds but the EX500s are great, great rims.
 
Jul 24, 2008
29
0
Enumclaw
I"ve been running Flows/Hadleys on both my DH and All Mtn. for the last year with no issues. I did 10 DH races on the same set. I'm 220 and ride 4-5 days a week. I run tubeless Minions on both with no issues. I would highly recommend the Flows, also the ZTR355's I've had the same set for almost 4 years and they have taken a beating and kept going.