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Tire geeks: Kenda H-factor opinions.

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
Crazy, I know...there's people who ride tires other than Maxxis! INSANE!
Let's just get this out of the way: If you think you're an expert at knowing what makes a tire great or terrible, then don't waste our time with stupid crap like "Buy Maxxis." I am not a fan of the people at Maxxis. Atleast the ones I've spoken with, in both the mtn bike and the rockcrawling world. Kenda has been GREAT to me, so I CHOSE them.
If you aren't a brand whore and are truly interested in performance, then I am absolutely interested in your opinions, good or bad!

I've been a bit preoccupied as of late and haven't really had a chance to get out and about since nearly last July. On a new TR450 that I'm loving and needing some new rubber. Like everyone else wanting a fast roller with superb braking and can handle corners. My PREFERRED terrain is loose, deep and damp(hence my move to the PNW very soon), but I love everything.
The H-factor LOOKS like it might fit the bill with short center blocks and a fairly strong looking shoulder row, with a nice transition in between the two...
It's technically an all-mtn tire but I'll be running the 2.5 DH in Stick E rubber.

Alright, hammer it out!
 

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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Kenda has been GREAT to me, so I CHOSE them.
Awesome! Convince them to make some DTC versions of the lopes and telonix tires so those pinner little center knobs quit squirming around with all that squishy rubber.

I'll give ya 20 bucks!


here's another render of that thing that shows the profile a little better



Kinda looks like it would behave exactly like a nevegal. Probably faster.


edit: get this thing



It looks like a mohawk. You could scream and chuck tomahawks at your enemies.
 
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DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
Dont get along with them THAT well, but I'll sure as hell recommend it as well!

One thing about those Elmocos...damn, those things will DESTROY a set of djs when they're slightly damp... Yikes!

And that BBG is crazy looking... like the back of Mr.T's head! Wonder if they come in dark brown...
Lopes definately has a unique design that apparently works very well for him. Looks MUCH faster than the Elmoco, but I wonder how it handles offcamber wet stuff... I've always been a fan of the Telonix up front, but the big center blocks wouldn't hold roots. I split them all down the middles a few times with a hotknife and they do MUCH better, but still feels like I have a brake sticking when I hit hardpack. I'm OK with that cuz that's not what they were designed for!

To me, it DOES remind me of a slightly more aggressive Nevegal, with the intermediate knobs already cut, and a stronger, more consistent shoulder...I think it might be worth a try, for sure.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I'm actually kind of serious though.......that BBG looks like it would be pretty legit. There some effective looking sideknobs on that thing and no stupid hunks of rubber to get in the way of them working. I've never even seen that tire before.

That solid centerhawk looks like it would be sketch on slime though. I think I'm going to get a set for my trail bike.......maybe as a rear for my dh bike.

I'd run a telonix or a moco before that h-factor though. That's just me.


And quit riding dirtjumps with dh tires!!!!! GRRRRR!!!
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
Actually, it's just a big pump track/line/trail, and it's my own, I'm the only one who rides it. And they're only 2.10 single plys on my HT...so TECHNICALLY I qualify! heheh But it's right in the middle of my XC run, so I tend to hit it up on my way back to the truck. SmallBlock 8s should fix the problem.

My problem with the Lope's line is his lack of ANY transition knobs, and I like a slightly rounder profile. I do think the ElMoco might be a bit better in the wet than the BBG, but I havent gotten to try it yet.

Also, unless I misunderstood you, both the ElMoco and the Telonix ARE available in DTC, but only in the folding versions...
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Oh I guarantee you that moco works better in the wet than that BBG. It's just that the BBG looks really fast with some braking traction and sideknobs that you actually use......because they don't have 'intermediate' knobs in the way.

You don't need intermediate knobs. Lean it if you mean it yo. Even sitting right over that channel where no knobs are present, the center and sideknobs will still be contacting dirt and giving you traction. Much MORE turning traction actually since you're not riding across the flat surface of another knob lifting the tire out of the dirt.

Those DTC tires aren't full blown DH tires though right? They have the same tpi count and folding bead that the xc casings do.
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
You got it, DTC=XC casing.

I know what you're saying about the intermediate lugs, spent a day checking footprints in a soggy section.

Around here I'm ridiculously limited to tire testing. I basically have to just ASSUME what's going to work on the terrain I'll be running when I get there. All the good stuff's a days drive away(reason #2 for moving!), so I have to judge the tires I've tried based on what I have ridden with them. And here I have one line that keeps popping into mind where mowhawkish tires keep blowing out on me, it's a long SLIGHTLY off camber section that wraps to the left around a hill . Even my Telonix won't hold unless I lean er to the left and ride the shoulder lugs or when the center pushes out and then catches me with the shoulders. Both of which are very distracting. I have pretty good luck with my cut Excavators though...and I just angle cut the intermediate lugs. I don't really seem to have too many issues at all with the Telonix everywhere else. Been pretty good to me.
Only complaints about the Telonix and the Excavators are that they roll like ****. I'm planning a much-needed trip here soon that will include Rocky Mountain granite and dust, Whatever-the-hell terrain is in northern Idaho, and then Whistler/Bellingham. Only want to bring one set of tires.

Also Kid, if you get a chance, the KOTs are a friggin BLAST! I've tried Wetscreams, Michelin Muds and Swampthings before they released the KOT and it's my absolute fav. Rolls FAST for a long spike and I haven't managed to fold the lugs over yet.
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
If you check the intermediate lugs on the H-factor, looks like they are short towards the center and deeper on the shoulder side, unlike some of the other round-profile tires that have all equal height lugs. Hoping this will lessen the impact of those intermediate lugs, but still hold speed on those long flat sweepers..?
I'm just gonna have to try em, huh?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
If they ramp up from the centerline out, they I'd suspect they'd do exactly what it sounds like you're describing.......hold in a 'neutral position' on an offcamber section. But you're still not digging the knobs in, you're riding the tops of them. Not all bad but I'd rather have knobs digging in. I mean riding something off camber is the same principle as a flat tracker turn with the bike leaned over......you've just got gravity to dig in with instead of momentum.

Hard to say without knowing the section you're talking about but if leaning over a bit more would solve it, I personally wouldn't buy a tire for ONE section of ONE trail but rather what works for hard cornering in MOST sections.

I might get a pair of those KOTs at the end of summer once the 'dirt'(sic) around here goes to total moon dust. I've never ridden spikes in powder and those look more like something I'd want to try than most mud tires out there.


Either way, thanks for making me look at kenda's website. I found some things I want to try.....even if they're not on my dh bike :D
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
One last note on the H-Factor's intermediate lugs-they're very widely spaced, and the shoulder lugs are twice the size and count as a Nevegals...and a cut Nevegal isn't a bad run, really!
Oh, and not buying tires for here, buying them for my road trip to Whistler and all the goods in between! Be nice if they worked here, too, but the riding is lame anyway so tires matter not, really....

BTW...you're avatar fugging ROCKS!
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Yeah don't tell anyone but I was on a roadtrip once and destroyed a tire. Took a buddy's nevegal. I did cut off every single intermediate knob before I put it on my bike though.

It's in my garage if you want it. 4 rides I think :D

Arkayne gets the credit for the avatar. Dirt dick ninja is the title of the piece I think.....
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
does not look terrible:


or:

and cut off all the intermediate knob portion of the 3 segment wide center knobs
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
does not look terrible:


or:

and cut off all the intermediate knob portion of the 3 segment wide center knobs
I dont believe the Nexcavators are out yet, and Id need to see the actual production version first. As it is it doesn't "seem" like there's enough shoulder blocks, and almost seems like there's more spacing between them than the original Excavator as well.
Looks like it should roll a bit faster though...?
 

MinorThreat

Turbo Monkey
Nov 15, 2005
1,630
41
Nine Mile Falls, WA
I'm jumping into this discussion a bit late; however . . . especially since you will be in B'ham soon, give another thought to Excavators. They may not be the fastest roller but they pay that back in spades with traction.

I've been running the 2.5 Stick-Es for three seasons now and I have to say that I like them better than my former 'tried-and-true' DHF/DHF.

They hang on to EVERYTHING: wet rocks, roots and mud at Whistler, the sharp rocks and moon dust of North Idaho and everything in between. They are truly as all-condition tire as you are going to find.

When I got my first set, I also got a set of 2.5 Nevegals to change out as conditions warranted. I never put them on. The Exs took care of it all. And all you have to do to turn it into a full-on mud tire is to cut out the middle tri-knob (a trick I found here from EC himself).
 
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Slater

Monkey
Oct 10, 2007
378
0
I really want to be stoked on trying out some Excavators, but the side knobs look half as high and half as numerous as they "should" be in my head.
 

MinorThreat

Turbo Monkey
Nov 15, 2005
1,630
41
Nine Mile Falls, WA
In person, the side knobs are pretty chunky/blocky, IMO. Get them on a 32mm rim and they take on a nice shoulder profile.

I'll have to look at mine tonight, but I don't recall the side-knobs looking like the pic above (tapered outside to inside). My 2.5s seem pretty square in height, more like they appear in this pic:

 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
Yeah, I've got my Excavators still, they are my fall-backs! And to be honest, I ran a 2.4 Telonix front/2.35 Excavator rear in Whistler last July. It was DRY to say the least and despite the 10 years I have on the two guys I went with I stayed with or in front of a set of Nevegals and a set of Minions all week. I also religiously run 16psi front, 18psi rear. Had I bumped that up a bit I might have left em behind, so I'm probably getting a bit retentive with wanting a faster roller.
If I had to rate my needs in a tire in order it would be Braking a solid first, followed by cornering, and last straight line speed. I'm not much of a fan of straight runs anyway, I like it twisty with flow. But like Kidwoo said above, the lugs get a little squirrely on the Telonix when there's traction to be had.
And the more I think about Kidwoo's desire for a DH carcass with DTC... the more I want! Bring that Excavator up to SPEED! Those huge lugs are gooey!
On my front Excavator I cut all the intermediate knobs at an angle from center of tire to shoulder from the middle of the lug down to the casing. In theory, that left a nice edge to still assist with flat corners, cut down some rolling resistance and opened up the shoulder lugs to work more.
 

Slater

Monkey
Oct 10, 2007
378
0
Um we ride VERY differently if you actually run 16/18 psi.

However that profile of the Excavator does look enticing. Wonder how it looks on an 823.
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
Only works with a wide rim. Learned that much in my past. If it's going to be nonstop rock hunting, then I'll def air em up, but I've NEVER gone over 30psi. I SWEAR I get slower the more PSI I put in. Plus bike get's all jiggity, don't like it.
I'm not at risk of ever wearing out a podium, but Id like to think I'm not a turtle. I DO, however, ABSOLUTELY pick my lines. No monstertrucking. I don't avoid the rocks though, I just look for the ones that boost nicely! It's supposed to be fun anyway, isn't it?

How wide is the 823? I know my bud swapped to Kendas and Mavics at the same time, and blamed the Kendas for all the flats he was getting. Yet I was on Kendas but with Outlaws and not an issue all weekend. Actually I've never had an issue with Kendas, other than wearing them out. And the Excavators survived steep rocky runs better than the smaller lugged Nevegals, btw.
 

Slater

Monkey
Oct 10, 2007
378
0
Hahaha that pic is wild!

I just looked at a Telonics, and damn that is actually a decent looking tire. So you guys said they get squirmy when on hardpack?
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
Not enough to keep buying them dude. I think tires like the ElMoco are worse as it's JUST small, squirmy knobs. The Telonix has some very large blocks that I assume stabilize it more. I'm also not the guy to ask as I DO run low PSI. I wasn't really keeping that in mind when I said that. I do NOT doubt that they do, but I think trimming those little intermediate spikes in the center tread would alleviate that.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Hahaha that pic is wild!

I just looked at a Telonics, and damn that is actually a decent looking tire. So you guys said they get squirmy when on hardpack?
A little yeah. Each individual knob is pretty small and unsupported so with gooey rubber they definitely squirm. Mostly in situations like packed berms where you're not really on the sideknobs.

Still the best dust tire I've ever ridden though. With all that surface area with those little knobs they hold in those conditions pretty damn well. Wouldn't take much to get rid of the squirm. They already have the mold, if they'd just make a dtc version it would be really really nice.

Hey THRILLA: I cut some of those sort of intermediate knobs on one to open up the sideknob channel and it squirmed worse in my opinion.

I also ran a moco with all the center knobs completely cut off. It was awesome :)

You couldn't pay me enough to have ridden that tire in the mud like that though.
 
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