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bullit398

Chimp
Oct 21, 2007
69
1
Neptune, NJ
So I was at Diablo today for opening day. This is my 8th season riding there. In general I am a big fan of diablo. I had already gone down tempest once, bypassing the anthem drop. Second run through there we head for anthem. No problem, hit it 100 times before. Anyone who has ridden this knows that you need decent speed to make the tranny. When on the bridge you cant see the landing until just before take off. This is what I saw:





At the time when I saw it, I had a spit second choice. Slam on the brakes on the bridge (not enough time) or try to land it. I went for it and got drilled head first into the ground as soon as I hit the branches. Keep in mind this trail was listed as OPEN. I destroyed my helmet and had my bell rung. We grabbed branches and tried to close it off at the start of the bridge.

I went to the office and told them what happened. I said they owed me a helmet for total negligence on their part. No one from the park would even come out to talk to me. They sent their EMT out. They had the EMT tell me that my helmet was fine I just need a new visor. They said I should have looked before I hit it.

Seriously??? I would have been ok with it if even someone came out and admitted that they screwed up. I'm lucky to have not broken my neck. Doesn't anyone check the trails before opening day? Clearly all that crap didn't fall last night. It looked like it was dragged there to close the drop. Why wouldn't they close it at the entrance?

Anyway, I will continue to ride Diablo as it is my local park and I have a season pass. I would just offer some warning that just because its open doest mean they cleared the trail. I feel I am at least owed an apology. Anyone from Diablo, I would love to hear a response.
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
Not to take their side but if you care about your own safety you should scope things out when it is the first time of the season, before you hit a stunt even if it is something you've hit before. But as a park they should really scout all the trails before oppening them for riding and hopefully do some maintenence.
 

aham73

Chimp
Jan 28, 2011
29
0
Philadelphia/ San Francisco
It's their fault for leaving a trail open that has dangerous debris/conditions. It is negligence. My friend had a similar situation happen playing paintball. There was a lawsuit, etc because he sustained serious injury.

That said, I'd call a higher up at Diablo and let them know what happened. You need to make sure the boss's boss knows. That way, they can make sure all the people under him/her are looking out for the riders. **** happens. Never know what could have lead to it.

Also, Diablo is my home park too. I'll be ordering up a season pass very soon!
 

Krzr3000

Monkey
Apr 24, 2005
113
0
Wow. Regardless of the sticks, it looks like the landing wasn't touched from last season. I always thought they slacked on maintenance, but this is just negligence.

I live about equal distance between highland and diablo...i think i will continue going to highland.
 

epic

Turbo Monkey
Sep 15, 2008
1,041
21
They should have a trail check every day. Not just before opening day (and it looks like they didn't even have that).
 

Mr Nug

Monkey
Aug 26, 2007
138
1
UK
That is terrible. I can understand why no one has apologised as that would be admitting negligence. Resorts have been sued for less however although unfortunately (and luckily), the fact that you're okay means there's less weight behind your argument.

Also:
The EMT told you that your helmet was okay?? Do they have a section in their first aid qualification where they can somehow do off hand structural analysis on protective wear too?!

I wouldn't take that. The helmet's obviously taken an impact and all companies state that they should be replaced after impact (apart from POC and Bern). Whether it's up to Diablo to compensate you is another argument altogether but I wouldn't accept the EMT's opinion as the final word.
 

bullit398

Chimp
Oct 21, 2007
69
1
Neptune, NJ
That is terrible. I can understand why no one has apologised as that would be admitting negligence. Resorts have been sued for less however although unfortunately (and luckily), the fact that you're okay means there's less weight behind your argument.

Also:
The EMT told you that your helmet was okay?? Do they have a section in their first aid qualification where they can somehow do off hand structural analysis on protective wear too?!

I wouldn't take that. The helmet's obviously taken an impact and all companies state that they should be replaced after impact (apart from POC and Bern). Whether it's up to Diablo to compensate you is another argument altogether but I wouldn't accept the EMT's opinion as the final word.
Youre right, I dont really think they would apologise, but a new helmet for cost would have gone a long way. As far as the EMT, I have been riding long enough to know that an impact hard enough to make you dizzy = new helmet no matter what.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
No Maintenance. None
12345

That said, i thought that after dominion got re-burned in, and alpine as well, the day ended up being 10X better. I dont entirely blame diablo, its been a REALLY ROUGH winter, and it rained 21 days this month in NJ. it is the 30th, you do the math, probably cant even drive the machine in that mud-for those who say open later, well at least there was riding, i had a great day. I dont think this lack of maintenance will happen next year.
 

slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
0
Not to take their side but if you care about your own safety you should scope things out when it is the first time of the season, before you hit a stunt even if it is something you've hit before.
That's correct.

It's not negligence by anyone except those who are riding without thinking, riding under assumption.

OP's argument comes from a place of being concerned for his own well-being and I can understand that concern. But any time you ride a trail anywhere, you should be aware that things can change since the last time you rode it, and to ride it blindly assuming it's as you imagine/remember... that's pretty negligent to me.

Sorry to say it, but the negligence looks like the rider's negligence here.

When I ski at lift-served areas, I don't expect everything to be perfect, and in fact I don't want it to be perfect.

I feel the same way about trails, even at lift-served bike parks. If you want to ride or ski, you need to care for your own self.

The more you demand others protect you from danger, the more dumbed-down everything will become. Just look at the US Forest Service in about 95% of places where MTB trails exist: the past 5 years has seen a grooming and dumbing down because of the increase in riders and especially an increase in riders who demand that the USFS make "safe trails."

One thing's for sure: I'm glad as hell I'm not back in NJ. Too many people back there think "society" is supposed to protect them from danger, and too many are sue-happy and eager to see negligence.

Take care of your own self.
 
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Zaphoid

Chimp
Aug 8, 2007
50
0
That's correct.

It's not negligence by anyone except those who are riding without thinking, riding under assumption.

OP's argument comes from a place of being concerned for his own well-being and I can understand that concern. But any time you ride a trail anywhere, you should be aware that things can change since the last time you rode it, and to ride it blindly assuming it's as you imagine/remember... that's pretty negligent to me.

Sorry to say it, but the negligence looks like the rider's negligence here.

When I ski at lift-served areas, I don't expect everything to be perfect, and in fact I don't want it to be perfect.

I feel the same way about trails, even at lift-served bike parks. If you want to ride or ski, you need to care for your own self.

Diablo puts branches and other debris on the landings and lips of features in order to deter the winter mt users from attempting to hit those features. The fact that those debris were intentionally left on a feature, on a trail labeled open, by a mt. that was open is a gross failure to care for the safety of the riders.
They were too lazy to do a trail check on opening day. That is f**king terrifying. Does not speak well for the rest of the year if this is the level of maintenance we can expect.


I am also glad you are no longer in Jersey
 
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Krzr3000

Monkey
Apr 24, 2005
113
0
That's correct.

It's not negligence by anyone except those who are riding without thinking, riding under assumption.

OP's argument comes from a place of being concerned for his own well-being and I can understand that concern. But any time you ride a trail anywhere, you should be aware that things can change since the last time you rode it, and to ride it blindly assuming it's as you imagine/remember... that's pretty negligent to me.

Sorry to say it, but the negligence looks like the rider's negligence here.

When I ski at lift-served areas, I don't expect everything to be perfect, and in fact I don't want it to be perfect.

I feel the same way about trails, even at lift-served bike parks. If you want to ride or ski, you need to care for your own self.

The more you demand others protect you from danger, the more dumbed-down everything will become. Just look at the US Forest Service in about 95% of places where MTB trails exist: the past 5 years has seen a grooming and dumbing down because of the increase in riders and especially an increase in riders who demand that the USFS make "safe trails."

One thing's for sure: I'm glad as hell I'm not back in NJ. Too many people back there think "society" is supposed to protect them from danger, and too many are sue-happy and eager to see negligence.

Take care of your own self.
So on a jump trail i should stop before every jump and make sure the landing is clear? The trail is OPEN on opening day. Rough winter or not, intentionally placed debris should not be on a landing for a sizable drop with a blind takeoff. This has nothing to do with dumbing down or padding, thats absurd.

These aren't forest service xc trails. This is a bike park where you PAY to ride a specific type of riding.
 
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epic

Turbo Monkey
Sep 15, 2008
1,041
21
If something fell down between one run and the next, or after trail check, that's one thing, but it is reasonable to expect the mountain to try and keep the trail clear.
 

DownhillR3

Monkey
May 31, 2007
630
0
Bullit, i'm sorry to hear about your run-in with the Anthem drop. And what do you expect... since Jack wasn't available today to schmooze the incident over with, of course knowone is going to talk to you about. Me on the other hand have been waiting for Diablo e-mail me back since earlier this week, business or customer relations isn't their forte, that's for sure.
 

Salami

Turbo Monkey
Jul 17, 2003
1,784
118
Waxhaw, NC
I dont entirely blame diablo, its been a REALLY ROUGH winter, and it rained 21 days this month in NJ. it is the 30th, you do the math, probably cant even drive the machine in that mud-for those who say open later, well at least there was riding,
What a dumbass!! It is 100% their fault.

So what if it has been a rough winter? It may be a good reason for not having groomed landers and jumps.

It is not a good reason for ANY debris to be left on the trail like that. How hard is it to walk every trail and make sure it is clear of debris like that?

And if they couldn't get the trails cleaned up properly in time there is a simple solution: put off opening until the trails are safe.
 

quickneonrt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2003
1,611
0
Staten Island NY
What a dumbass!! It is 100% their fault.

So what if it has been a rough winter? It may be a good reason for not having groomed landers and jumps.

It is not a good reason for ANY debris to be left on the trail like that. How hard is it to walk every trail and make sure it is clear of debris like that?

And if they couldn't get the trails cleaned up properly in time there is a simple solution: put off opening until the trails are safe.

Agreed 100% I wish Vertical Earth didn't close down and I lived only an hour and a half from Highland instead of Diablow
 

TheTruth

Turbo Monkey
Jun 15, 2009
3,893
1
I'm waving. Can you see me now?
It was a mess today, have they not heard of a leaf blower? Every trail was a mess except for maybe Greenhorn.
Oh wahhhhhh. The trails were too leafy for you! Cry me a river. The snow at mountain creek just melted and the trail crew did not have enough time to get rid of all of the wet leaves. Perhaps you should reconsider your perspective and stop bitching.
 

nelsonjm

Monkey
Feb 16, 2007
708
1
Columbia, MD
That's awful. Glad you got out reasonably ok. Maybe they are protected somewhat due to the "ride at your own risk" clause.. But that comment about your helmet being fine is total negligence unless they happened to be a trained helmet inspector.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
That's awful. Glad you got out reasonably ok. Maybe they are protected somewhat due to the "ride at your own risk" clause.. But that comment about your helmet being fine is total negligence unless they happened to be a trained helmet inspector.
Waivers don't typically hold much water in cases of gross negligence.
 

WhoRyder

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2007
1,834
0
NYC
Did anyone see hat HUGE iceberg parallel to Lower Breakout... i was trying to have some riders huck it... :-)
 

DhUrbaner

Chimp
Oct 9, 2006
49
0
I want George Ryan back! Seriously though, It was like riding 98-99' style. It was rough, but I believe with the amount of riders riding there the trails will be better soon. Alpine was in good shape aswell as greenhorn. The branches on the landing were put there by diablo employees, they should be responsible to remove them, if the branches fell naturally thats a different story. my2cents.
seeyatom.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
And THIS is why Big Bear shut down. You are responsible for ANYTHING in the trail.
Cant agree more. **** like this sucks make no mistake, yes the people at the mountain messed up.... Shti happens, its opening day, noone has been riding these trails yet so yeah, as a rider you should be looking out probably even closer than any other time being opening day.......

But constant complaints liek this is exactly why here in socal, we have to drive all the way to mamoth or tahoe for our closest lift access riding now.


For the OP, glad your ok and glad your smart enough to know to replace your helmet.......... This advice is what I tell roadies all the time, even if its not your fault, if you have right of way, if everything should be going your way......... Your still the only one that can keep you safe. Yes they should have checked everything on the trail, but yes you should have looked before hitting it as well.




This is to everyone here.......... Please take a step back and remember what personal responsibility is in our sport..... Riding trails like this is like shooting guns.... If you didnt check it, it isnt safe. Sorry but that is the hard line and truth in both cases.
 

Uncle Cliffy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2008
4,490
42
Southern Oregon
Man, I don't know why everyone saying it's the OP's responsibility...

I couldn't in the slightest way, imagine something like this happening in Whistler. It would be like them opening Dirt Merchant, then having a bonfire at the bottom of the first stepdown. The entire hill is littered with features similar to this, but it just wouldn't happen... The pictures posted show me clearly that the branches were placed there for a reason. (Whatever that is.)

Waiver or not, it's clearly their fault. But, of course it's always going to be the riders fault.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
I agree with DirtyMike 100%. The only person in this world responsible for your safety during an event like this...is you.

Just because there is a crossing guard in the middle of the street...are you really gonna walk across without looking both ways?

And so what if an EMT gave his personal opinion about your helmet. Did his shirt say "DOT" certified and you're gonna believe him?

I could jump a blind jump one thousand times. If even once a 2 foot diameter tree limb falls on the back side of it at any point...and I hit it...it's MY CHOICE!!!!

Stay home if you're not willing to accept responsibility for your lifestyle choice. I'm revoking your man card!:rolleyes:
 

Krzr3000

Monkey
Apr 24, 2005
113
0
lol @ dudes saying its riders fault because he should have looked before he lept. This isn't a backyard stunt, or a local trail system. This is a ski resort/bike park which charges you to ride their lift and trails. The same place that hosts the US open ffs. Do you really check the landing of every drop or jump when riding at a DH bike park? If you say yes you are lying.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Diablo-Freeride-Park-Set-to-Kick-Off-East-Coast-Riding-Season.html

For the past month, the ParkLogic Trail Crew has been busy scouring the mountain and revamping existing lines and features to improve upon the already impressive custom-built trail network.

Experience America’s Premier Gravity race. Prestige, honor and bragging rights are at stake this May 26th-29th as athletes from across the globe will make the pilgrimage to Diablo Freeride Park to compete in the most prominent downhill event in America
 

FarkinRyan

Monkey
Dec 15, 2003
611
192
Pemberton, BC
This isn't black-or-white, both parties can be at fault in a claim for negligence.

Diablo and their trail crew were definitely negligent here; leaving a trail open in that condition is without a doubt negligent to some degree. Had the trail crew properly inspected and cleared the trail there wouldn't have been a pile of wood arranged on the landing of a big, blind stepdown. No question about it.

The rider is also negligent, they didn't check the stunt before they rode it and had they, they wouldn't have chosen to gap a big, blind stepdown onto a pile of sticks.

So, as with most negligence claims, both parties are at fault to some degree and the judge has to decide how to split the hairs of culpability and assign blame.

That said, what kind of two-bit shonky operation allows a trail in that condition to open at all? That's just inexcusably, irrevocably sh1t, regardless of the fact that the rider is partly at fault here. Diablo and their trail crew should be ashamed.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
lol @ dudes saying its riders fault because he should have looked before he lept. This isn't a backyard stunt, or a local trail system. This is a ski resort/bike park which charges you to ride their lift and trails. The same place that hosts the US open ffs. Do you really check the landing of every drop or jump when riding at a DH bike park? If you say yes you are lying.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Diablo-Freeride-Park-Set-to-Kick-Off-East-Coast-Riding-Season.html
Let me make this even more clear......... I did not say it was the riders fault....... I am saying the rider could have easily prevented it, even though it wasnt his responsibility.


Back when socal had BB, I used to ride there alot.... I wouildn't trust anything, even if I had just ridden there the week before, my first run I ALWAYS checked each feature before hitting them blindly...... Guess what, I can rememebr at least half a dozen times were there had been trail damage, fallen treens, a rock slide ETC.... stuff that would have resulted in personal injury to myself, stuff that the park was indeed responsible to keep up with..... Yet taking on just a little bit of personal responsibility, I always took it slow on my first runs on each trail, I will always do this anywere I go..... Simple reason, I dont trust others to look out for my safety, so that means I have to check it for myself. I make that first run on a trail checking carefully that everything is on order.... next run I run the hell out of it and have fun.......

This is jsut simple things that can keep you out of harms way..... even when it isnt your fault...

BUT bitching about it on an internet forum, with advice like calling the higher ups of the park, etc....... this is all exactly how bigbear came to be closed for lift access riding......... even with this truly being someone elses job, through personal responsibility, it can be prevented...... Just like the road rider that gets hit by a car when they dont look at an intersection... the roadie has right of way, its a green light... blows through the intersection and dude rolls through a red light in front of them...... Drivers fault... rider if he looks can prevent it.




Oh and for the record, being this is a place that hosts large events, I woudl especially be checking myself mroe often....... you never know when something ahs been changed.....

point in fact..... something here was changed... for whatever reason.... it was changed from the last time the rider was there.....
 
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khoolhandz

Chimp
Jul 27, 2006
89
0
I LOVE SURREY
A responsible ski/mtn resort operator must do sweeps before every opening each day they are open, just like what they do at Whistler. Trails or runs must not be declared OPEN unless it's been properly swept and cleared of any unexpected and potential dangers (relatively speaking).

Unless those branches fell after the trail was inspected and deemed safe in the morning before opening, it is 100% the park's fault.

The waiver you sign is useless if the cause of injury is gross negligence (such as this). If you got seriously hurt, I bet you'd get offered settlement before you even decide to sue.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
This isn't black-or-white, both parties can be at fault in a claim for negligence.
<snip>


That said, what kind of two-bit shonky operation allows a trail in that condition to open at all? That's just inexcusably, irrevocably sh1t, regardless of the fact that the rider is partly at fault here. Diablo and their trail crew should be ashamed.
Def not black and white, thats for sure.

But in responce to the second part...... Someone missed something..... **** happens..... tahts why you should be looking out for yourself instead of expecting others to. You just never know for sure
 

Krzr3000

Monkey
Apr 24, 2005
113
0
Oh i see your point. In terms of who is at fault its both, perhaps moreso the rider. But this is intentionally placed debris on a well traveled trail. Not to mention this particular mountains reputation for neglect. Just adds to the ongoing lolz with this mountain, as this does not surprise me at all. Its really another nail in the coffin for the inevitable....
I used to love this mountain until i rode other places that do it right. Its business, some are better at it.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
Oh i see your point. In terms of who is at fault its both, perhaps moreso the rider. But this is intentionally placed debris on a well traveled trail. Not to mention this particular mountains reputation for neglect. Just adds to the ongoing lolz with this mountain, as this does not surprise me at all. Its really another nail in the coffin for the inevitable....
I used to love this mountain until i rode other places that do it right. Its business, some are better at it.
Ah.... So its also known for neglect..... Man this really is shaping into big bear take two. Same thing, everyone knew the trails were not kept up properly, they knew it was a half rate mountain..... yet they still laid 100% trust that the mountain will have the riders best interest in mind befor ethey ride it...........


Now the question is... were the limbs laid out intentionally by the resort for some reason............
Or did some hikers advocate, skier advocate, mountain biker hater do this with the intention of hurting a rider do it that the mountain did not know about this............

Still alot of unanswered questions
 

cableguy

Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
463
1
Southern California
Big negligence by Diablo. If you had gotten injured seriously, a good lawyer would have taken them to the cleaners. You should document everything and send them a warning letter, so it won't happen again.