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Hayes Stroker Ride sticking. Here we go again...

BIGHITR

WINNING!
Nov 14, 2007
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Maryland, east coast.
Well, I was riding up hill today and felt like I had a flat or something was dragging behind. So I stopped, got off my bike, spun both tires and the front tire all but stopped the moment I let go of it with my hand. I just bought brand new Hayes Stroker Rides end of last season because the Hayes Mags that came on my King Fisher 1 pulled to the handlebar and stopped working after a season and get this, not once, but three times stopped working. The first two times Hayes fixed it under warranty and sure enough, the first time it lasted 3 weeks till the lever once again pulled all the way to the handlebar and had zero brake power and then it lasted 3 months after they fixed it the second time. So I got fed up sending the brake back to Hayes because it takes a few weeks to get it back and I have no front brake for three weeks at a time. So I blow the money on the new Stroker Rides end of season last year and put the Hayes Mag in a box figuring I'll send it back AGAIN for the THIRD time for the same problem that Hayes for some reason just can't seem to fix. Not only does the guy on the phone at Hayes tell me now that it's out of warranty, he said all they did was bleed the break both times according to their records as to what was done to it. Apparently no one put on a new cable witch all three times, Hayes reps on the phone told me was probably the problem. So now they won't cover the brake under warranty. As if I'm not pissed enough because they've fixed it twice and both times it failed again, now my BRAND NEW STROKER RIDE front brake is sticking today. So before I take it off just to have Hayes bleed it and over look the real problem once againg, does anyone know what would cause it to stick? I had to push my finger against the back of the lever today to push it outwards away from the handlebar to get it to release and stop dragging the rotor.

What could be the problem that's cause in it to stick so soon? It's got about 15 rides on it now. It seems odd the brake would stick being I bought it new and it's had very minimal usage in a place here called Avalon that is just single track in a state park. It's had zero abuse. And I clean the hell out of my bike every time I finish riding so it's not dirt in it. What could cause it to stick?
 

BIGHITR

WINNING!
Nov 14, 2007
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Maryland, east coast.
Why would you continue to buy hayes brakes?
Because my Hayes nines on my other bike work like a charm. Seems like the more money you spend on the "better" stuff, actually has more probs than the cheaper heavier stuff.

I have always been told that Hayes are the best hydraulic brakes. I didn't think Shimano was all that and I've never liked Avid much. And I figured if I spent more on a "better" more expensive set of brakes I MIGHT not have this kind of problem. But it appears once again I do. Now it looks like I have TWO phone calls to make tomorrow. Rockshox and Hayes. Let you know the outcome later...
 

Mr Jones

Turbo Monkey
Nov 12, 2007
1,475
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It sounds like YOU need to rebuild and bleed the brakes YOURSELF. Pony up for a caliper seal kit and a master cylinder seal kit. The first gen stroker rydes on my stumpy are going strong and the only maintenance I've done to them is change brake pads.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Because my Hayes nines on my other bike work like a charm. Seems like the more money you spend on the "better" stuff, actually has more probs than the cheaper heavier stuff.

I have always been told that Hayes are the best hydraulic brakes. I didn't think Shimano was all that and I've never liked Avid much. And I figured if I spent more on a "better" more expensive set of brakes I MIGHT not have this kind of problem. But it appears once again I do. Now it looks like I have TWO phone calls to make tomorrow. Rockshox and Hayes. Let you know the outcome later...
when hayes 9's/mags were designed (god, a decade ago now? more i think, they came out in the late 90's) they were the best on the market. its not b/c they were that great, its that everything else was that bad. the one thing they did have going for them was reliability, but even then they will ultimately sh*t the bed. maintenance on them was so/so. the grossest used brake fluid i've ever seen has come out of hayes mags & 9's. it was like black sludge.


my long term experiences with shimano brakes are WORLDS better than with hayes. I've used a number of models over the years (saints, xt's, ever deore). and they are all ROCK solid. I've NEVER gotten dirty fluid out of any of my shimano brakes. it comes out looking like it went it (that pale red color). Hell, to this day I'm racing DH on a set of first gen saint brakes with the same year's XT levers. Total number of issues over the lifetime: zero (knocks on wood). I bleed 'em once a year, and change pads as needed. 5 years old and still working like they're brand new.
 

mellow_sparky

Monkey
Aug 21, 2009
133
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Washington State
Because my Hayes nines on my other bike work like a charm. Seems like the more money you spend on the "better" stuff, actually has more probs than the cheaper heavier stuff.
Not to pile on... But...

My wife has Hayes Nines on her bike - they have been flawless for a good six seasons (and she's taken the bike on many Whistler trips) - the Nines are great brakes.

I went through several warranty issues with Stroker Carbons until I gave up and went to Avid - now no problems. As far as I can tell, the Stroker design is finicky. Hell, I even had a LBS rebuild them under warranty and they still leaked. Ditch them and get something else.
 

BIGHITR

WINNING!
Nov 14, 2007
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Maryland, east coast.
It sounds like YOU need to rebuild and bleed the brakes YOURSELF. Pony up for a caliper seal kit and a master cylinder seal kit. The first gen stroker rydes on my stumpy are going strong and the only maintenance I've done to them is change brake pads.
I need to pony up for a caliper and master cylinder seal kit on a pair of brakes I bought new end of summer last year, and let sit all winter in my basement till last month? Yer kidding me right? Brakes should last a year at least. These were on my bike from end of July last year to end of October. Then started riding last month. They have four months riding on them in a place called Avalaon otherwise known as Patapsaco State Park in Maryland. It's not Cali riding! It's singletrack, no tough stuff, hardly ever mud, and most definitely no abuse to them. They're just going up WAY too quick. And I can't just unload them and take another loss.

What would cause the lever to stick? It doesn't pull back. The back brake pulls back when I let it go but the front brake stays pulled in. What could be the problem? I have a bleed kid so that's not a problem.
 
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jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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I need to pony up for a caliper and master cylinder seal kit on a pair of brakes I bought new end of summer last year, and let sit all winter in my basement till last month? Yer kidding me right? Brakes should last a year at least. These were on my bike from end of July last year to end of October. Then started riding last month. They have four months riding on them ...
:rofl:


buyer beware dude. its been some time since hayes had made a good brake.
 

Deano

Monkey
Feb 14, 2011
233
0
cheap reliable and power enough for most things.

Shimano SLX.

or Avids elexirs in the cheap range.

Why your stuck in the 90s and that hayes makes great brakes is a mystery to me, but maybe you got the same har too ;)
 

JeffKill

Monkey
Jun 21, 2006
688
0
Charlotte, NC
:rofl:


buyer beware dude. its been some time since hayes had made a good brake.
I have the stroker trails on my AM bike and the stroker ace's on my DH bike. Zero problems and Zero complaints since I installed them 3 years ago. I bleed them once a year and change the pads when needed.

In my experience, when set up properly, Hayes brakes are just as good as the rest. Not saying that they're better than Shimano or Avid either, but not the crap brakes that a lot of people on here make them out to be.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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I have the stroker trails on my AM bike and the stroker ace's on my DH bike. Zero problems and Zero complaints since I installed them 3 years ago. I bleed them once a year and change the pads when needed.

In my experience, when set up properly, Hayes brakes are just as good as the rest. Not saying that they're better than Shimano or Avid either, but not the crap brakes that a lot of people on here make them out to be.
so you're in the middle of the bell curve and got a set that works. hayes' problem is that there's too many outliers that don't work and/or are plagued with problems
 

JeffKill

Monkey
Jun 21, 2006
688
0
Charlotte, NC
so you're in the middle of the bell curve and got a set that works. hayes' problem is that there's too many outliers that don't work and/or are plagued with problems
I ride with 4 or 5 others that have the same positive results with newer Hayes brakes as well. I've seen plenty of Avid and Shimano brakes have problems too (Avid more than Shimano).

There are a lot of people out there that don't have the slightest idea what they're doing when it comes to working on/setting up brakes (along with ever other component out there). They can't get it right, so the product sucks. Then they get on every forum they can find to piss and whine about how bad it is.

I've been riding Hayes brakes since disc brakes came out for mtb's. Only problems I've encountered were caused by bad wrecks. Hayes make good brakes, and have damn good customer service in all of my experiences with them.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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I ride with 4 or 5 others that have the same positive results with newer Hayes brakes as well. I've seen plenty of Avid and Shimano brakes have problems too (Avid more than Shimano).
ok... let me update my previous statement. you and you're 4 or 5 riding buddies are in the middle of the bell curve and got hayes products that were reliable.

Over the last decade, I've seen more hayes with issues than I have all other brands of brakes combined (excluding hope :D ). Not just my own experience, but from years working in shops, and racing and riding on both sides of this country.

There are a lot of people out there that don't have the slightest idea what they're doing when it comes to working on/setting up brakes (along with ever other component out there). They can't get it right, so the product sucks. Then they get on every forum they can find to piss and whine about how bad it is.
Absolutely agree, but even a perfect setup and routine maintenance can't overcome excessive variability from productions specs (which is just as important when it comes to long term performance).

I've been riding Hayes brakes since disc brakes came out for mtb's. Only problems I've encountered were caused by bad wrecks. Hayes make good brakes, and have damn good customer service in all of my experiences with them.
Hayes made great brakes. Past tense. They used to be the industry leaders. They got too cozy there, and now are just another brand in the pack. I see far fewer people running hayes these days than I used to; nowadays its mostly shimano and avid.
 

JeffKill

Monkey
Jun 21, 2006
688
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Charlotte, NC
Over the last decade, I've seen more hayes with issues than I have all other brands of brakes combined (excluding hope :D ). Not just my own experience, but from years working in shops, and racing and riding on both sides of this country.
Well we've somehow experienced the exact opposite, so I'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen so many problems with Avid brakes, it's not even funny. Yet everyone I come across with Hayes, never has issues.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Well we've somehow experienced the exact opposite, so I'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen so many problems with Avid brakes, it's not even funny. Yet everyone I come across with Hayes, never has issues.
I've seen a lot of avid issues too. That's why they're not on any of my bikes :D
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
ive been using Hayes brakes for the better part of 12+ years and have less problems with their brakes then i have with Avid. id buy another set of Hayes before id buy another Avid brake....(though ill be using Formulas from now on after how happy i am with The Ones.)
 

JeffKill

Monkey
Jun 21, 2006
688
0
Charlotte, NC
So GETTING back on TRACK, what would cause a brake with so little use for the lever to stick when it's pulled?
Sounds like the lever piston needs some grease. Dennis Yuroshek posted a video a while back showing how to do this on the Stroker Ace, but Im not sure if the same applies to the Ryde. Have you contacted Hayes about the problem?

Here's a link to the vid: Hayes on Vimeo
 

BIGHITR

WINNING!
Nov 14, 2007
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Maryland, east coast.
Sounds like the lever piston needs some grease. Dennis Yuroshek posted a video a while back showing how to do this on the Stroker Ace, but Im not sure if the same applies to the Ryde. Have you contacted Hayes about the problem?

Here's a link to the vid: Hayes on Vimeo
YES Demo9, here comes the "That means it's crap" punchline," right?

Jeff, let's say after they told me they would not warranty my Mags because they're out of warranty after having been in their shop twice last year and they didn't bother to replace the cable, they just bled it, I left a pretty ticked off message on their machine about these new Rides that I bought to replace the mags and how quick I'm having problems with them already. So no, they have yet to return my call. I called them Monday on my way in to work. It's now Wednesday night. Doesn't surprise me. This is telling me more to send the Stroker Ride back, get it fixed and unload it on ebay and switch over to Shimano double piston calipers. The Japanese are so much better at making durable products than any U.S. company can, and when they go up, they stand behind the product even if it's outside warranty if it's their defect.

It's apparent what JonKranked said is true. Hayes USE to be a good company. I used to hear that on the trail from guys. That's why I bought Hayes the first time. Poor quality seems to be the same for a lot of the bike biz companies lately. I'm still ticked Manitou doesn't have firm ride springs just a year and a half after I bought my 2008 Travis. Which is the main reason why after 15 years riding on nothing but Manitou forks, five forks in all, I wrote Manitou off this winter and bought two brand new Rockshox Boxxers.

Ya know, you try to voice your opinion to these companies to give them feedback and they're like passengers in an airport when the officers tell people to take off their shoes and take off any metal and they walk up to the magnetic detector seconds later with shoes on and their pockets full of cell phones, keys and everything else. At least Japs listen. They believe in honor and shame, creating brand loyalty, quality and durability, and repeat sales. American companies believe in the bottom line, profit margin. It's typical. Manitou's lost a very happy customer and to be honest with you, a fan that touted how good they were in the woods to other riders for 15 years.

But I'll give Hayes to the end of the week before I just box it up and send it back with my receipt and just tell them to fix it.
 
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TheTruth

Turbo Monkey
Jun 15, 2009
3,893
1
I'm waving. Can you see me now?
I need to pony up for a caliper and master cylinder seal kit on a pair of brakes I bought new end of summer last year, and let sit all winter in my basement till last month? Yer kidding me right? Brakes should last a year at least. These were on my bike from end of July last year to end of October. Then started riding last month. They have four months riding on them in a place called Avalaon otherwise known as Patapsaco State Park in Maryland. It's not Cali riding! It's singletrack, no tough stuff, hardly ever mud, and most definitely no abuse to them. They're just going up WAY too quick. And I can't just unload them and take another loss.

What would cause the lever to stick? It doesn't pull back. The back brake pulls back when I let it go but the front brake stays pulled in. What could be the problem? I have a bleed kid so that's not a problem.
I don't want to jump on the "You sound like a dumbass band wagon", but when you say "Brakes should last a year at least!" That is like saying "Tubes should last 3 months minimum!"

I have had this problem with my avid brakes. The reason your brakes are sticking like that COULD BE because there is sediment on the outside of the small hole that allows fluid access to the bladder. When you squeeze the lever fluid can move out freely, but when the fluid tries to come back in there is sediment making it harder for the fluid to come back in. What I did is just replace the line and rebleed the system.

But this is just a guess. Best thing to do is what Ih8rice said and get them sent out to QBP.
 

BIGHITR

WINNING!
Nov 14, 2007
1,084
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Maryland, east coast.
if you cant get anywhere with Hayes, have you local bike shop send them to QBP. they do warranty and service work on brakes
Yeh, well, it's been a week and not a single word from Hayes. Poor brakes, poor warranty work, poor customer service. They're on a great roll. :mad:

So wtf is QBP? Never heard of them. Will they do what Hayes can't seem to do, fix my Hayes brakes the first time I send them back? :think:
 
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JeffKill

Monkey
Jun 21, 2006
688
0
Charlotte, NC
Yeh, well, it's been a week and not a single word from Hayes. Poor brakes, poor warranty work, poor customer service. They're on a great roll. :mad:

So wtf is QBP? Never heard of them. Will they do what Hayes can't seem to do, fix my Hayes brakes the first time I send them back? :think:
What number are you calling? I've never had a problem getting anyone on the phone at Hayes.
 

BIGHITR

WINNING!
Nov 14, 2007
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Maryland, east coast.
Jeff, I called Monday and left them a message that I was not very happy with their product. It's Saturday. Obviously they didn't like my anger over their product being crappy. I guess if I had sugar coated it and BS'd them up a lot and kissed their ass, maybe they would have called me back. I have a non working MAG in my basement that is worthless to me because they said it was now out of warranty. Funny though, all they did was bleed it twice both times I sent it back to be fixed. And both times they said on the phone it could be a cable but they NEVER PUT ON A NEW CABLE UNDER THE WARRANTY!!! Now that it's OUT of warranty, they said they won't warranty it. They'll charge me to fix it. Charging me to fix it takes the profit out of selling it and thereby cutting the cost of me being FAITHFUL TO THEIR COMPANY LAST SUMMER WHEN I BOUGHT HAYES BRAKES AGAIN TO END THE CONSTANT SENDING BACK OF THEIR MAG LAST YEAR HAVING ME WITHOUT A FRONT BRAKE FOR SIX WEEKS LAST SUMMER!!! You think they'd want to humor me a bit by now wouldn't you?

Here's the number I dialed!

Phone:1.888.MTN.DISC, (1.888.686.3472)
 
Dude, face palm city.
If even your pissed as all hell you can get more out of a situation by being calm and making your case as opposed to coming off as an emotional wound up douche. EVEN IF YOU ARE ACTUALLY RIGHT.
Remember this as it will serve you well in life.
QBP and BTI are parts distributers that also are service centers for certain brands. Brakes, suspension etc.....
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Back in the 90s the now so-called BIG Companies were trying to build a reputation. That's why they honored warranties so quickly, developed and tested their products extensively before taking them into the market and had decent QC departments. 20 years later, they just sit and enjoy what they harvested back in the day. It's the Microsoft philosophy spreading to every single industry: untested, underdeveloped, price-inflated products, with poor customer support, even poorer quality control. Bill G said it out loud: "We don't do beta testing. Our customers are our beta testers".

OK, so the market has grown a lot from the 90s. So the production batches grow bigger and bigger. But so do the prices. In 2001 you could buy a more-than-decent single crown fork for about 200 bucks. Now you have to almost double that number. And if a significant amount of those forks are defective, the company won't issue a recall. They figured out it's easier and cheaper dealing with individual claims, and globally, many affected customers will never even place a warranty claim for a faulty component.

No wonder why small and dedicated companies are growing their market shares. They have better development programs, customer care and quality control than the big players.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Yeh, well, it's been a week and not a single word from Hayes. Poor brakes, poor warranty work, poor customer service. They're on a great roll. :mad:

So wtf is QBP? Never heard of them. Will they do what Hayes can't seem to do, fix my Hayes brakes the first time I send them back? :think:
i can only imagine and laugh at the message you left for them. as pissed as you might be, getting mad at them via voicemail is probably the last way to get your sh!t fixed.

QBP is a large parts distributor and does service work for brakes and suspension. only your LBS can send in warranty/repair parts to them, so go make nice with your LBS and have them send it in.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,563
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Back in the 90s the now so-called BIG Companies were trying to build a reputation. That's why they honored warranties so quickly, developed and tested their products extensively before taking them into the market and had decent QC departments. 20 years later, they just sit and enjoy what they harvested back in the day. It's the Microsoft philosophy spreading to every single industry: untested, underdeveloped, price-inflated products, with poor customer support, even poorer quality control. Bill G said it out loud: "We don't do beta testing. Our customers are our beta testers".

OK, so the market has grown a lot from the 90s. So the production batches grow bigger and bigger. But so do the prices. In 2001 you could buy a more-than-decent single crown fork for about 200 bucks. Now you have to almost double that number. And if a significant amount of those forks are defective, the company won't issue a recall. They figured out it's easier and cheaper dealing with individual claims, and globally, many affected customers will never even place a warranty claim for a faulty component.

No wonder why small and dedicated companies are growing their market shares. They have better development programs, customer care and quality control than the big players.


:tinfoil:
 

BIGHITR

WINNING!
Nov 14, 2007
1,084
0
Maryland, east coast.
Back in the 90s the now so-called BIG Companies were trying to build a reputation. That's why they honored warranties so quickly, developed and tested their products extensively before taking them into the market and had decent QC departments. 20 years later, they just sit and enjoy what they harvested back in the day. It's the Microsoft philosophy spreading to every single industry: untested, underdeveloped, price-inflated products, with poor customer support, even poorer quality control. Bill G said it out loud: "We don't do beta testing. Our customers are our beta testers".

OK, so the market has grown a lot from the 90s. So the production batches grow bigger and bigger. But so do the prices. In 2001 you could buy a more-than-decent single crown fork for about 200 bucks. Now you have to almost double that number. And if a significant amount of those forks are defective, the company won't issue a recall. They figured out it's easier and cheaper dealing with individual claims, and globally, many affected customers will never even place a warranty claim for a faulty component.

No wonder why small and dedicated companies are growing their market shares. They have better development programs, customer care and quality control than the big players.
EXACTLY!!! Too big for their britches! They forget the faithful customer that has bought from them for years, and continues to buy from them. This is my third set of Hayes brakes. Nines, Mags and Strokers. You'd think when I told the guy on the phone that I REPEAT BOUGHT HAYES last summer to replace their DEFECTIVE HAYES I sent back twice to their shop that they couldn't fix, you'd THINK they would be kissing my ass to stay with them, not the other way around to get it fixed! It's their defect and their warranty shop that didn't fix it the first time and apparently was unable to fix it the second time. That says something about their service department.

So what is a customer supposed to do? Keep sending it back to them over and over and over and over till they get it right and hope it gets fixed before the warranty runs out? Hell, they didn't even offer me a discount if I turned the old brakes in and offered to buy a new set! I had to pull out $150 out of my pocket to buy the new brakes to END the problem of having NO front brakes half of last summer. I'm sorry to be nasty about it but they dropped the ball on this one. Hayes should have covered the old brake under warranty because they never fixed it while it WAS under warranty in their shop twice to be fixed. All they did was bleed it.

As to the new Strokers going up so fast, it's still under warranty. But for the new set to be giving me a sticking problem THIS quick? Four months riding?

Look at what Hadley did for me! They realized the defect in my Hadley Hubs was their fault. They completely rebuilt my hubs for nothing and shipped it back to me WITH FREAKING FREE TOOLS for the problem! THAT'S what a GREAT American company service USE to be like! Hadley sold me on their product, durability, and standing by me, the customer.
 
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BIGHITR

WINNING!
Nov 14, 2007
1,084
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Maryland, east coast.
Well, I gave Hayes brakes two weeks. NO return call from Hayes. It's a good thing for them the warranty ran out, because three times is the lemon law. Because after two times back to their service shop, it's apparent I got the Hayes lemon.

Mags will go on sale on Ebay soon to be sold as parts use only. Back brake works. HOW I don't know. Brand new Stroker Rides with three months on them will go Ebay as soon as they warranty fix what's wrong with THIS pair as well. Hopefully, Hayes will FIX this set! Because whoever buys them off Ebay will be all sales final.

Looks like I'm buying Japanese Quality Shimano for now on. Learned my lesson well. :hmm:
 
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bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
As painful as this thread is, Yuroshek's tip video was helpful. Just wonder what type of grease I could use instead of buying a little piddly packet of lube from Hayes.

Also, watched the Hayes Stroker bleed video. Don't really even know that it's necessary to use that little bleed screw at the lever. Would think you could just treat it like Shimanos and feed DOT fluid up through, tap the lever to get the bubbles out and put the screw back in.

Any thoughts?
 

ocelot

Monkey
Mar 8, 2009
395
10
Canadastan
Also, watched the Hayes Stroker bleed video. Don't really even know that it's necessary to use that little bleed screw at the lever. Would think you could just treat it like Shimanos and feed DOT fluid up through, tap the lever to get the bubbles out and put the screw back in.

Any thoughts?

The bleed fitting is there so that you can connect a hose going to your catch can. Hayes aren't like Hopes or Shimanos where you need to open the reservoir in order to perform the bleed.