Why do you think it is that so many people (most) believe in god and religion? When I was eight and in Sunday school I was able to debate the existence of god and the need for religion based only on logic and reason (I knew very little science). I was asked to leave, and my sister said me too, me too. Now with the knowledge that comes from higher education it seems absurd that people are willing to pretend that there is some man floating around out there that made everything and watches over us all so that he can destroy us at a later date (in a few days if I'm not mistaken). There was a time (dark ages) when religion served the purpose of educating, teaching right and wrong, but most importantly controlling the masses both politically and on a personal level. Why do so many still "believe"? Please respond with intelligent comments based on sociology, anthropologic theory, you know, science. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/may/15/stephen-hawking-interview-there-is-no-heaven
Make believe vs. science
- Thread starter Killdozer
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I was kicked out of Sunday School for much the same reasons. 
Short answer IMHO, there is no evolutionary reason against such beliefs, therefore the meme persists as it provides 'explanation' for things we don't (or don't want) to understand and a sense of belonging to a tribe.
Short answer IMHO, there is no evolutionary reason against such beliefs, therefore the meme persists as it provides 'explanation' for things we don't (or don't want) to understand and a sense of belonging to a tribe.
"Think about everyone you know. Then think about how many people there are in the world. Now recognize that 50% of them are below average intelligence."
I think religion and "god" need to be kept seperate.
I have absolutely no idea why anyone would choose to believe in a "god" for any reason other than to not have to be responsible for their own actions. A serious cop-out if you will. I simply can not respect people with these views.
Religion, on the other hand, in its simplest form is nothing more than a set of guidelines for how to act unto your fellow man. In this regard I think religion can be great, ten commandments type ****, if you know what I mean.
However religion in its more modern form is nothing but a tool to subjugate the masses and justify ridiculous wars/conflicts, so that the people that are defying my middle point (decency to one another) can feel like they are still righteous.
background: parents are both european immigrants, mother raised roman catholic, rejected it in her late teens. Father raised lutheran but never seriously. I never grew up going to church, but a good 50% of my family is die-hard god-believers. People you cant even have a conversation with without them wishing that god can save you.
biggest pet peeve about religion: And this generally applies to the ultra god-types, born agains for example. Leave me the fsck out of your bull****. I don't care and I certainly don't want to have you attempt to indoctrinate me.
I have absolutely no idea why anyone would choose to believe in a "god" for any reason other than to not have to be responsible for their own actions. A serious cop-out if you will. I simply can not respect people with these views.
Religion, on the other hand, in its simplest form is nothing more than a set of guidelines for how to act unto your fellow man. In this regard I think religion can be great, ten commandments type ****, if you know what I mean.
However religion in its more modern form is nothing but a tool to subjugate the masses and justify ridiculous wars/conflicts, so that the people that are defying my middle point (decency to one another) can feel like they are still righteous.
background: parents are both european immigrants, mother raised roman catholic, rejected it in her late teens. Father raised lutheran but never seriously. I never grew up going to church, but a good 50% of my family is die-hard god-believers. People you cant even have a conversation with without them wishing that god can save you.
biggest pet peeve about religion: And this generally applies to the ultra god-types, born agains for example. Leave me the fsck out of your bull****. I don't care and I certainly don't want to have you attempt to indoctrinate me.
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predicting thread implosion in 5...3...2...4....5..4..1...zedro
IMHO pieces of crap who got mistreated in high school formulate the opinion that normal, intelligent people can't have religion without being "conformist masses" and therefore join the rapidly growing field of agnosticism in an effort to make themselves feel better about not having any faith in anything including themselves.
IMHO pieces of crap who got mistreated in high school formulate the opinion that normal, intelligent people can't have religion without being "conformist masses" and therefore join the rapidly growing field of agnosticism in an effort to make themselves feel better about not having any faith in anything including themselves.
yayyyyyyy black jesus!
I never believed in god.
Here read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox
And this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion
and watch this 8 min ted talk http://www.bu.edu/buniverse/view/?v=L0PVab3
Also, people believe in God because they are uniformed. They need easy answers to yet unanswerable questions, or they fear death, or they need a sense on community, or they need a reason for existence, or they use it justify an agenda.
I've read many arguments for god (http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Enough-Faith-Atheist/dp/1581345615) and been to several lectures on god.
And I have learned this:
God is a cash cow. People who believe in religion are a cash crop. it's all about the money.
Religion and God have no place in modern society, I hope that they disappear from the world.
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I believe in God and am a Christian. I however, did not for several years at one point and was really questioning and analyzing my beliefs, almost wanting not to believe. I then took about a year trying other religions and reading why they believe what they believe, doctrine, etc... I have taken several philosophy classes in college too. Most of my philosophy professors believed there is a God, even though it is a "secular" school. Due to their reasoning, I have taken into account a lot more variables than most do when making statements about religion and beliefs and God.
I mean guys, you ever hold a baby? you ever do any deep science labs with a microscope for biology? Things are to perfect and consistent and physical matter is only one aspect of it all.
I mean, I believe there is an intelligent creator, and I am a non-demoninational christian with my own opinions formed through studying history myself deeply and being influenced by science itself. Do I agree with everything my church says? Definitely not, I hardly agree on a lot of things.
Now, aside from design and creation, you can take on the argument of whether God plays roles in moral aspects of life etc. There are a plethora of topics.
I mean guys, you ever hold a baby? you ever do any deep science labs with a microscope for biology? Things are to perfect and consistent and physical matter is only one aspect of it all.
I mean, I believe there is an intelligent creator, and I am a non-demoninational christian with my own opinions formed through studying history myself deeply and being influenced by science itself. Do I agree with everything my church says? Definitely not, I hardly agree on a lot of things.
Now, aside from design and creation, you can take on the argument of whether God plays roles in moral aspects of life etc. There are a plethora of topics.
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Could an omnipotent being create a stone so heavy that even the omnipotent being could not lift it?
not to relate is to relate
Main problem with this dumb statement is that the existence of a deity cannot be intelligently defended on any level. Secondly, I would also argue that putting faith in, or expecting supernatural beings to be on the lookout for you is directly at odds with having faith in one's self.
It seems sad, I'm almost sorry I started this. Guess most people aren't confident enough to just believe in themselves and reality. It must feel reassuring to think there is an explanation for everything but that you can never know it, or to think that you are being watched over with your other club members. http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/230805/science-help-us
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no you ain't, bitches be trollin hard up in this thread. you think you're better than other people because they believe in something. that's the saddest thing in the world. "i'm better than you because you think or feel differently than I do". Who else has said those words? Now go enjoy your prom and quit trollin'.
here's the great thing about faith and/or religion....I don't give a **** about what you believe. If you want to think I'm stupid for having faith in god/spaghettimonster/dao/buddha/wendy's, then that puts you right up there with other famous hatemongers. I don't think if I convert you, that you'll experience rapture or get invited to sit at the cool kids lunch table or any of that ****. The great thing about life, and America, is that I can believe whatever dumb **** I want to believe, and you get to go through life just as miserable as you ever were. I/we/the religious and/or faithful don't need to debate and or prove, and that's the difference.
fwiw, I am a scientist, I work daily with gene manipulations, I have faith in god/some other presence, and and I'm pro-choice. I graduated from a private institution with honors. I don't shop at walmart or k-mart. I live in/near a major metropolitan area, I'm politcally moderate, and I don't believe that political beliefs should be based off of religion....yet I still have faith in some higher power.
bit touchy now ain't we
Just as long as you're aware that your opinions don't make any actual sense, I think we can be in total agreement.here's the great thing about faith and/or religion....I don't give a **** about what you believe. If you want to think I'm stupid for having faith in god/spaghettimonster/dao/buddha/wendy's, then that puts you right up there with other famous hatemongers. I don't think if I convert you, that you'll experience rapture or get invited to sit at the cool kids lunch table or any of that ****. The great thing about life, and America, is that I can believe whatever dumb **** I want to believe, and you get to go through life just as miserable as you ever were. I/we/the religious and/or faithful don't need to debate and or prove, and that's the difference.
fwiw, I am a scientist, I work daily with gene manipulations, I have faith in god/some other presence, and and I'm pro-choice. I graduated from a private institution with honors. I don't shop at walmart or k-mart. I live in/near a major metropolitan area, I'm politcally moderate, and I don't believe that political beliefs should be based off of religion....yet I still have faith in some higher power.
The three worst things to happen to human beings :
- Religion
- Alcohol
- Henry Ford
Personally, I think it best (And have learned...) to avoid debating things like religion on the interweb...I dont come here for my beleif strata. I come here to see boobies, and talk about bikes and stuff...
Well, I just like to prod anyone who takes anything too seriously.
To the rock question above. I believe that is a meaningless paradox. It's like saying, "Can God draw a square circle?" I don't believe inherent and illogical impossible circumstances fall under the category "Omnipotent". I did not to mean to dismantle it in a rude way.
Also I will play the devils advocate here. Let's say He could make a rock so big, He couldn't move it. Well, He created the rock, so why couldn't He then again make the rock physically manageable. Also, as physical beings we tend to think in simple terms of physics etc, and are continuously hindered by our physical limits of mother nature. Now I ask you, why does God have to play by the rules of physics?
To the quote:
It's not a matter of believing in myself and reality. I am plenty confident in myself and believe I can achieve whatever I want. That's not what it's about for me at all. I believe there is a higher being that had to have had above and beyond amazing ingenuity and supernatural intelligence. I think God does give me the ability to live my life though, and he is the only one accountable for my existence. I don't use him as a lean to, or my only support, I have a pretty good self-esteem, I can be cocky occasionally and I know I can do what I want and it can either reap negative, positive or neutral consequences.
I guess it must be upsetting to get called on your false beliefs, know deep down that there is no good reason for them but not have the courage to admit you have been wrong and are perpetuating one of the greatest lies in history.
I met Drunken Ninja, He is my god. I cashed in my Ira and mailed him all of my money. When I get to heaven St Peter is going to have the bong ready and I am going to rip one with Sammy Davis Jr, have sex with Marilyn Monroe, and settle in with my new roomy Jimi Hendrix. DN said so......
Killdozer you do interest me. I am not asking the following out of spite, just out of curiosity if you would not mind, because what you believe has me intrigued and I might be able to take some good things away from it.
There is no sarcasm in this so please don't take it wrong.
Are you ever motivated to go out of your way for people, and if so, why if you yourself could get ahead? Do you take any conservative stances on political or medical issues (such as abortion?). If you believe abortion is wrong, why is that? Allow me to take it a step farther, why do you believe murder is wrong if you do believe it is? (and not eye for an eye, I mean murder for unjust reasons such as a clerk getting shot robbing a bank.) Do you think it is important to make a positive impact on society? Is there any other purpose to life other than ultimately being satisfied personally (i.e. why would you ever die for someone else like perhaps risking your life for a stranger pushing them out of the way of a speeding train, if you would that is)?
bamboo mountain bikes?
I like this. Some of what you've asked is too silly to address, I don't need divine direction to know that murder is wrong, nor to influence me to help others. I do in fact help people in need when I can and I would say that it is because statements like those ten commandments are correct, but you don't need a bible to know that. When you contribute to society your DNA has done it's little bit to help the evolution of mankind down a beneficial path. I have put my life at risk to save others but I'm not sure what circumstances would need to be present to give my life for another, perhaps saving many lives as in war. I understand life to begin for human beings at the point of brain activity so abortion is not murder. Seems like any time I go out of my way to help someone I feel good, so the more good I do the better I feel. Pretty selfish. If someone reads all this and challenges themselves to rethink their position on a religion, then perhaps that person has been "saved".
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People who dismiss all Christians as mindless word for word followers of the bible that are illogical and stupid fall into the same category as people who feel that all muslims are terrorists and that all atheists are sinners.
I don't subscribe to a religion, I've only been to church a few times in my life, mostly because significant others have asked me to go. That doesn't give me the right to make fun of people who do believe in a higher power. After all, according to science, it's human nature: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/12/religious-belief-is-human-nature-huge-new-study-claims/
I don't subscribe to a religion, I've only been to church a few times in my life, mostly because significant others have asked me to go. That doesn't give me the right to make fun of people who do believe in a higher power. After all, according to science, it's human nature: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/12/religious-belief-is-human-nature-huge-new-study-claims/
I see you have met my Mother in law She fits the first example of mindlessnes and she firmly believes in your second example because her minister told her so
faith is the place holder for things that you cannot explain. it can save you tons of time to believe something instead of studying it, and studying may not even yield the result you are looking for. i can opt to believe the earth is round, or some other shape. the only time it creates an issue is when i find myself in need of the information about the shape of the earth in order to make a decision, or when i collaborate with others about something dependent on the shape of the earth.
i can also guess a false positive. i could guess and believe that my cell phone works because the plug i put into it sends food to the elves living inside phone, and that they make my phone work. regardless of why it works, i just need to understand that plugging in my cell phone keeps it working. just because my belief about "why" is "wrong" doesn't mean i can't use a cell phone every day.
i can also guess a false positive. i could guess and believe that my cell phone works because the plug i put into it sends food to the elves living inside phone, and that they make my phone work. regardless of why it works, i just need to understand that plugging in my cell phone keeps it working. just because my belief about "why" is "wrong" doesn't mean i can't use a cell phone every day.
only in the context of being judged by someone with a value system defining atheism as a sin.
assuming atheism is a sin, atheism is not the only sin.
non-atheists can be non-christians and thus not atheists but still sinners.
an atheist can behave in non-sinful ways, thus only having the sin of atheism.
christians can commit sins despite being not-atheists.
Ok, I am a pretty strong Christian and have been most of my life. However, from about 14 till about a year ago I was really questioning my faith and the existence of God. Science can not prove everything but IMO works hand in hand with creation.
Anyways, there are two books I HIGHLY recommend to anybody who questions the existence of God. The first is "Creator and the Cosmos" by Hugh Ross. The second is "The Language of God" by Francis Collins. Both of these were written by people who did not believe in God. Also, the first is quite impressive...it was written by a scientist who was a proclaimed athiest who set out to disprove creation and the existence of God. After all his research he realized it actually pointed to a supreme being. Anywhoo...its really good stuff to read and that's coming from somebody who HATES reading with a passion!!
Anyways, there are two books I HIGHLY recommend to anybody who questions the existence of God. The first is "Creator and the Cosmos" by Hugh Ross. The second is "The Language of God" by Francis Collins. Both of these were written by people who did not believe in God. Also, the first is quite impressive...it was written by a scientist who was a proclaimed athiest who set out to disprove creation and the existence of God. After all his research he realized it actually pointed to a supreme being. Anywhoo...its really good stuff to read and that's coming from somebody who HATES reading with a passion!!
All are sinners. Even Christians.
Use of the word 'we' to speak for people you've never met in meat-space....
hmmm... not sure that's a safe assumption.100%? It's unlikely any good scientist will agree with you on this point, no matter how strident an atheist they are.
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