set it in the middle and dont make any changes till you make a run. stop part way down and tune a smidge but get after it first. have fun man jealouse you guys have resorts to ride.
mammoth and n* will eventually open.
Avalanche boxxer upgrade kit out! Will fit majority of forks!
- Thread starter bullcrew
- Start date
mammoth and n* will eventually open.
Nope, I'm 210lb but prefer a stiff spung lightly damped fork so I opted for no midvalve.
It seems you can't get the Totem cart withouth the midvalve now, is that right?
you can craig, craig has it alcarte as well.
he opted to make it a whole unit on the site to rid any confusion. seems people ordering wrong stuff and they are constantly trying to fix the errors.
i didnt think it was hard but then sometimes people are busy or ocupied mentally.
so yes you can order it anyway you like.
So I guess this is too far off center?
I've got 4 rides on this cartridge and I would say that it's great except trail chatter. Alot more is felt in the hands than I would expect. Is it because of the side loading on the dampening rod? I don't have any odd sounds on mine even at bottom out.
I've got 4 rides on this cartridge and I would say that it's great except trail chatter. Alot more is felt in the hands than I would expect. Is it because of the side loading on the dampening rod? I don't have any odd sounds on mine even at bottom out.
thats not bad at all. small bump may be too much rebound or too need a smidge lighter damping. also what oil is in it? also what psi are your tires?So I guess this is too far off center?
I've got 4 rides on this cartridge and I would say that it's great except trail chatter. Alot more is felt in the hands than I would expect. Is it because of the side loading on the dampening rod? I don't have any odd sounds on mine even at bottom out.
mine kills the brake bumps on the intense trail and they are plentifull even in the sideways rutted bumps. it really opens up at speed on the rocks.
my valving is really light though.
Ha ha that is waaaaaay off centre, don't listen to Bullcrew, check out the machining at the top of the stanchion, you'd expect that from RST not Rockshox.So I guess this is too far off center?
I've got 4 rides on this cartridge and I would say that it's great except trail chatter. Alot more is felt in the hands than I would expect. Is it because of the side loading on the dampening rod? I don't have any odd sounds on mine even at bottom out.
I rode my fork today, it had no small bump sensitivity at all, I'm going to rip the Avy damper out and put the RS one back in. Turns out the more flogged out my RS damper got the better the forks felt. I will save for some cheap Marz forks and try again, it's a shame took over RS, they could have been non existent by now!
Im running the rebound at the recommended setting (12 out) and low speed compression at 16 out. i"m running Spectro 5wt oil. About 30 PSI in the front (minion 2.5 set up tubeless) It does kill it in the rocks at speed. One other thing, I am bottoming out every run. I have never felt it bottom but according to the o-ring it happens alot. Is that OK? It would seem that you want to use all you travel as long as there is no harsh bottom out. Advice is appreciated. thanks
That is perfect. When people say you should "bottom" a few times in a day, that's what they mean. Any time you feel the fork "stop" at the end of travel, it is not good for the fork, but getting full travel and never feeling it is perfect.
As far as the sensitivity, at high speed in arizona super-chunk rocks (well even at low speed in super-chunk) it's ungodly great. When I push it, it just gets smoother. I'm going to try different oil (have mostly 5wt, but ran out and had to use a bit of 7 when filling it) soon, but I have no major complaints. As I said in the other thread though, this is made for pushing the limits at high speeds through chunky terrain. At lower speeds it seems over-damped/doesn't react. It might be that you just need lighter oil, or maybe a re-valve of the stack, but I'd have to wonder how it would affect the high-speed performance that is so impressive. My marzocchi carts on the other hand are easily overwhelmed at speed, although at lower speeds arguably more "plush" (because they also blow through travel easier).
My Boxxer fix seems to be working like a charm. No leaks, the cartridge is dead center and everything is smooth.
The Avalanche setup is not as sensitive as my 888 RC3 WC, but it ramps up better at the end. Also there is less diving during braking now (I have the mid-valving). I had the rebound and compressiong dialed to 12 clicks from full clockwise, so I´m going to back up on the compression on my next ride. Guess the seals will need some breaking in too (brand new Boxxer), so I´m sure the performance will improve.
Oh, and going from a 2008 888 RC3 WC with a Marzocchi direct mount stem to 2010 Boxxer/Avalanche with a Straitline direct mount stem shaved 634 grams off my bike! 634 grams!!!!
The Avalanche setup is not as sensitive as my 888 RC3 WC, but it ramps up better at the end. Also there is less diving during braking now (I have the mid-valving). I had the rebound and compressiong dialed to 12 clicks from full clockwise, so I´m going to back up on the compression on my next ride. Guess the seals will need some breaking in too (brand new Boxxer), so I´m sure the performance will improve.
Oh, and going from a 2008 888 RC3 WC with a Marzocchi direct mount stem to 2010 Boxxer/Avalanche with a Straitline direct mount stem shaved 634 grams off my bike! 634 grams!!!!
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broke in it feels like silk. smooth and just flows.
the reason the 888 probably had better small bump and initial was that the seals and bushings were broke in. it makes a big difference on forks especially air.
the reason the 888 probably had better small bump and initial was that the seals and bushings were broke in. it makes a big difference on forks especially air.
If you want a 2009 32mm Boxxer WC with Avy cartridge and tons of extras, check the classifieds out. I just got a deal on a 40 so I'm selling mine.
Does this apply to the WC air spring assembly as well?
Just put my Avy cart in my 888EVO TIs. Reshimmed the mid valve to hold them up a bit more, as I found they rode low on my Boxxers, and the stock 888 EVO damper let the forks ride low also.
Someone said they're AVY Boxxers weren't as initially plush as their Boxxers, to you, I say RE SHIM. Should be able to get whatever desired feeling from the Avy cart.
I'm sure mine aren't right, and re shimming is a big job, and very confussing, so I just did mid stroke for now. Next I'll try another oil, as I'm sus on what I have being too light. Rebound was too slow before, so I might pplay with it next.
Someone said they're AVY Boxxers weren't as initially plush as their Boxxers, to you, I say RE SHIM. Should be able to get whatever desired feeling from the Avy cart.
I'm sure mine aren't right, and re shimming is a big job, and very confussing, so I just did mid stroke for now. Next I'll try another oil, as I'm sus on what I have being too light. Rebound was too slow before, so I might pplay with it next.
So the avy cart rode low in travel in your boxxer? What did you actually change in the midvalve? I felt the same thing, though I used a bit too low pressure but still it was noticable.
I wrote it all down for reference, but it's 11:30 at night here, and 0* cold outside.
But I changed to the medium shim stack on the Avy site from the next softer/faster one.
I'm running Motorex 2.5 racing fork oil, might be too light. Don't let the 2.5 confuse though. It's the same other numbers that count as what AVY reccomend. Oil here in Oz is hard to get, The ones Avy reccomend anyway.
Alright update to the cart 15 months later I finally decided to change the fork fluid in it for its first time today.
Drained it and refilled with 230ccs of golden spectro on cart side, added 5 ccs to the air chamber up top (was NO fluid in the anymore) and drained and did 10 ccs to the lower side.put slickhoney on the wipers and seal groove. Nice and smooth again haven't noticed any loss of performance but definently smoother again.
Plenty of rides on this figured I'd see if it would be maintenance free and it has been flawless even the air cart side has been spot on no issues or maintenance to it at all.
Pretty good reliability and performance for a boxxer, well over a year of solid riding on it with no maintenance.
Love open bath....
Cart side
Lower air side
And of course what its supposed to look like
Drained it and refilled with 230ccs of golden spectro on cart side, added 5 ccs to the air chamber up top (was NO fluid in the anymore) and drained and did 10 ccs to the lower side.put slickhoney on the wipers and seal groove. Nice and smooth again haven't noticed any loss of performance but definently smoother again.
Plenty of rides on this figured I'd see if it would be maintenance free and it has been flawless even the air cart side has been spot on no issues or maintenance to it at all.
Pretty good reliability and performance for a boxxer, well over a year of solid riding on it with no maintenance.
Love open bath....
Cart side
Lower air side
And of course what its supposed to look like
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I ripped mine out last week and put the old RS cart back in because of my alignment issues and I was expecting to see some gouging on the oil lock ring thingy but there was none.
While everything was apart he\ad to fill some gouges on the spring side and thought I would give both stanchions a cut and polish with some car products.
My forks were assembled with little to no grease which left my stanchions looking a bit odd and slightly discoloured, the fork seems a lot smoother than it ever has but I put Redline 2.5wt oil in it so that may play a tiny part too.
I am yet to try the fork in the bush but I know it will(sadly) feel better than running the AVY due to the casting issue.
While everything was apart he\ad to fill some gouges on the spring side and thought I would give both stanchions a cut and polish with some car products.
My forks were assembled with little to no grease which left my stanchions looking a bit odd and slightly discoloured, the fork seems a lot smoother than it ever has but I put Redline 2.5wt oil in it so that may play a tiny part too.
I am yet to try the fork in the bush but I know it will(sadly) feel better than running the AVY due to the casting issue.
That really sucks I had another buddy with a race that had casting issues really bad and couldn't do the cart.
I had good casting holes and not 1 mark on internals but absolutely smooth through the travel. Pretty thankfull for that and theres supposed to be a fix soon hopefully.
Yah, my race was so bad, I could take out the spring, take out the compression damper, and it would bind up so bad with just the rebound damper in there, that it was hard for me to go past half travel.
edit: this was with the latest rev internals as well. I had converted the race into a team. from what sram said, they were on their 12th rev for 2010.
edit: this was with the latest rev internals as well. I had converted the race into a team. from what sram said, they were on their 12th rev for 2010.
This is the friend lol.
Heal up T the trails are calling. U back from whistler
Just an FYI, those early forks are awful and if you have a good relationship with your shop, they may go ahead and warranty the thing entirely for you. I had an early 2010 and it was trash, they gave me an entirely new 2011 R2C2. The change is night and day.
Just blew up my rebound assembly on my early '10 WC, saw little metal pieces in the cartridge oil as well. I would love a '11 replacement, but I'd be happy with just the updated rebound assembly so I can ride my bike with some rebound..
Is there any easy way to tell if a pair of Boxxer lowers are incompatible with Avalanche cartridge?
If it is theres a relatively easy fix.
TIPS:
If the internal bottom on the race casting is uneven, you can take the stanchion from the spring side flip it upside down and the top cap is flat. Stick a peice of 100 grit self adhesive paper on the end (if its mild then 150). Slide stanchion down lowers (paper down) and spin the stanchion like your trying to start a fire with a stick. Pull it out and check it you will see fresh wear that will tell you if its square or not and do it till the wear pattern is round.
It sands easy as its a pot metal casting so it will sand quickly.
The bushings center the stanchion so its square.
IF its the hole when you tighten the cart down and it moves the cart off center, check the bottom of th lowers the powder coat can be built up or the casting can be several degrees from flat just file the high side where the nut needs to go down.
Aside of that if the cart is 1-2mm off its OK it will work with that, the newer castings are more spot on it was mainly the original castings that were being problematic and part of the reason internals were wearing and scoring themselves.
BE SURE to check with a flashlight to make sure theres no contamination inside the lowers before installation, peices of o-rings and shavings can get into valving and have a negative effect on them.
When I pulled mine apart yesterday I washed it out with alchohol and air compressor and low and behold a chunk of o-ring from original stock internals was in htere thankfully it didnt find its way inside the cart. So just be sure to do that.
TIPS:
If the internal bottom on the race casting is uneven, you can take the stanchion from the spring side flip it upside down and the top cap is flat. Stick a peice of 100 grit self adhesive paper on the end (if its mild then 150). Slide stanchion down lowers (paper down) and spin the stanchion like your trying to start a fire with a stick. Pull it out and check it you will see fresh wear that will tell you if its square or not and do it till the wear pattern is round.
It sands easy as its a pot metal casting so it will sand quickly.
The bushings center the stanchion so its square.
IF its the hole when you tighten the cart down and it moves the cart off center, check the bottom of th lowers the powder coat can be built up or the casting can be several degrees from flat just file the high side where the nut needs to go down.
Aside of that if the cart is 1-2mm off its OK it will work with that, the newer castings are more spot on it was mainly the original castings that were being problematic and part of the reason internals were wearing and scoring themselves.
BE SURE to check with a flashlight to make sure theres no contamination inside the lowers before installation, peices of o-rings and shavings can get into valving and have a negative effect on them.
When I pulled mine apart yesterday I washed it out with alchohol and air compressor and low and behold a chunk of o-ring from original stock internals was in htere thankfully it didnt find its way inside the cart. So just be sure to do that.
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I just rebuilt my fork and noticed some very fine metal shavings in the oil. There were some marks on the tubing and abs cone. Very fine, nothing serious. The cartridge seems pretty well centered when installed. Could it be that the cartridge is deflecting under compression?
could be a little the cart is designed for some flex and boxxers flex pretty hard as it is. There will also be a little amount of break in with overlapping parts. Mine was dirty and in definite need of change once any tolerances that were close have broke in then its good to go.
I wouldnt worry about, the cone and taper on the oil lock ring can make contact a smidge but not enough to have an issue. I had oring material from the original stock internals and debris in my oil in the past on original break in.
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Just get 888s as a host, better in every way but weight, and that's a worthy sacrifice for all the other benefits.
Alot less flex for sure. You did one right what's your take on chasis. I have a friend back east with it in a 888 chasis and said hands down its smooth and doesn't flex like his boxer chasis did. I don't notice flex on mine I know it does but mines spot on but I may need to find a 888 chasis to tinker with.
There's less benefit to the cart in a 888, because the 888 cart is pretty good, next year it'll be suspiciously more like the Avy with shimmed rebound.
I'm running the nickel stanchions, I've heard the blacks are a touch slipperier but doubt there's much in it. My nickel coating rubbed off up top of stanchions an a muddy day in the shuttle rig, bit of a bummer, but no biggy. I'm sub 70kg so don't notice flex. I'm sure bigger guys would. The forks definitely feel better than my Avy Boxxers before. But I did change a couple of shim stacks. Main thing is not having to service them every couple of months here in dusty Oz in summer. and they feel as plush as freshly serviced Boxxers. Still a PITA to change high speed damping, but all good.
I have a question concerning the hydraulic bottom out system. First I make assumptions, please correct me if I'm wrong:
As I have understood, it is a simple cone that is being pushed into cavity, displacing oil in the cavity as it goes deeper. The displaced oil will flow through the gap between the cone and the cavity, and the gap gets smaller and smaller the deeper the cone gets. It is like an orifice that gets smaller when the fork compresses, right?
Now that seems like a fine method to achieve very progressive resistance at the end of the travel. But, is it also resisting the extension of the fork?
As the fork is extending from the (fully or almost) bottomed out state, the cone is driven out of the cavity, and the oil must fill the cavity again. How does the oil get into the cavity? Through the same gap (orifice) it got out of. Now this orifice is again limiting the flow of the oil, thus making the rebound really slow at the beginning of the rebound stroke (rebounding from bottom out). This seems undesirable. Of course there needs to be damping when rebounding from bottom out, but the rebound circuit of the cartridge should handle that without any additional damping from the bottom out cone.
Now the question; does it really work as I described, or is there some kind of system that acts like a check valve and lets the fork extend without additional resistance?
As I have understood, it is a simple cone that is being pushed into cavity, displacing oil in the cavity as it goes deeper. The displaced oil will flow through the gap between the cone and the cavity, and the gap gets smaller and smaller the deeper the cone gets. It is like an orifice that gets smaller when the fork compresses, right?
Now that seems like a fine method to achieve very progressive resistance at the end of the travel. But, is it also resisting the extension of the fork?
As the fork is extending from the (fully or almost) bottomed out state, the cone is driven out of the cavity, and the oil must fill the cavity again. How does the oil get into the cavity? Through the same gap (orifice) it got out of. Now this orifice is again limiting the flow of the oil, thus making the rebound really slow at the beginning of the rebound stroke (rebounding from bottom out). This seems undesirable. Of course there needs to be damping when rebounding from bottom out, but the rebound circuit of the cartridge should handle that without any additional damping from the bottom out cone.
Now the question; does it really work as I described, or is there some kind of system that acts like a check valve and lets the fork extend without additional resistance?
Hi, could anyone tell me roughly how long it takes avalanche to process an order? got a race in just under a couple of weeks, just wondering if i need to find some spare forks for it if the avy cart isnt here by then.
cheers
cheers
Question about oil height in the cartridge.
The installation manual says a little less oil gives a softer ride while more oil give a slightly firmer ride. I what sense does the change in stiffness refer to? Will it change both low speed and high speed compression equally?
As of now, I know I need less HSC but don't yet have the tools to complete a re-valve. Would less oil with an increase of LSC give me a similar outcome?
The installation manual says a little less oil gives a softer ride while more oil give a slightly firmer ride. I what sense does the change in stiffness refer to? Will it change both low speed and high speed compression equally?
As of now, I know I need less HSC but don't yet have the tools to complete a re-valve. Would less oil with an increase of LSC give me a similar outcome?
Spring rate progression only, no effect on valving.
Travis - what year WC do you run with your AVY? I think mine rode low in itss travel because it just more sensitive than the stock RS internals so it became more noticable. Im really thinking about updating the solo air if the newer ones dive less.
Anyone know if the avy cart will work with a 2006 marz 66sl? I'd like to be able to keep travel at 150mm or 160mm at most.
2010 and yeah I upped the air a smidge, I'm curious as to the new air cart. Mine survived almost a year and half no service and the upper had no oil in there but still kicking. So knock on wood I won't change it if it takes that kind of beating.