Carbon V10
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this. the demo9 hate gets old. anyone who has ridden with him or seen him ride knows he can fvckin tear it up.
back to the V10... in 10" mode, which shock would have better bottom out control for a rider ~ 160lbs with gear... vivid coil or rc4? to be more specific i like very progressive suspension but still want to use full travel. been drooling long enough; might pull the trigger soon. has anyone ridden this bike yet with different shocks to compare?
Vivid air?
of those two shocks, the RC4 is what youd want
I will be busting out the 29er DH bike this sunday so no M9 tuning.
cool. any insight as to why the vivid is inadequate?
its not that its inadequate, its just that the RC4 is fairly progressive shock by design. the Vivid is still a good shock (except for Huck's...his stinks!
)
Im puttin on the soft bumper as soon as Im willing to deal with on/off'ing the spring again.its not that its inadequate, its just that the RC4 is fairly progressive shock by design. the Vivid is still a good shock (except for Huck's...his stinks!
Mine bursts into flames whenever the carbon snaps.
That is like every other run. Isn't it?
only if the run has roxx, specifically the ones from the east koast,
I'm really happy with the Vivid Air. I don't feel it bottoming but the travel indicator says I'm getting 75mm and I think these shocks have 76mm total travel. Don't overlook how much of a tuning aid the sag/travel indicator on an air shock is. The dual rebounds add some tuning hassle but allow me to have a slow feel without the packing and bottoming that multiple big rocks can induce.
I've got 2 days in on my recent V10c build. Day one was with the Vivid coil. The Vivid handled large hits well, but small, repetitive hits (rocks, stutter bumps, etc) were not well controlled. It just could not keep up with fast, repeated, small/medium sized hits. Large hits were no problem. I may have bottomed, but it never felt harsh at the end of the stroke.
Day 2 was on an Avalanche Woodie. Much better feel overall. More control, more plush. But again, the V10 was not as smooth over the fast, small hits as say the CB Jedi. I had to back out all low speed compression and most of the high speed compression, and it still felt pretty harsh pushing through stutter bumps. I plan to see if Craig can work on the tune, but it may just be a limitation of the frame design.
Big hits and progressive ending stroke were not a problem for either shock.
Both days were in 10" travel mode.
was the Avy originally valved for the bike when you first rode it?
Yes. The Avy was rebuilt this week specifically for the V10.
Just a heads up on the Woodie/V10 combo. You'll either have to do one of two things to make it fit:
1. Have Craig use an angled canister head. This will move the canister further down the shock's long axis and it "should" clear the aluminum seat stay cross member.
2. Run the stock 90 degree canister head and bevel the leading edge of the seat stay cross member with a Dremel and coarse sanding cylinder. You don't need to remove much, just bevel the edge until the shock clears without hitting. Mine has about 2.5mm-3mm of clearance and experienced no hitting after a day of riding hard.
You might still have to bevel the edge with the angled canister head. It this thought bothers you, opt for the DHS remote shock.
Just a heads up on the Woodie/V10 combo. You'll either have to do one of two things to make it fit:
1. Have Craig use an angled canister head. This will move the canister further down the shock's long axis and it "should" clear the aluminum seat stay cross member.
2. Run the stock 90 degree canister head and bevel the leading edge of the seat stay cross member with a Dremel and coarse sanding cylinder. You don't need to remove much, just bevel the edge until the shock clears without hitting. Mine has about 2.5mm-3mm of clearance and experienced no hitting after a day of riding hard.
You might still have to bevel the edge with the angled canister head. It this thought bothers you, opt for the DHS remote shock.
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that is a big jump but all bike mfg's have raised their prices. the M9's price also was increased and the Angleset is a upcharge now
Judging by Intense's website, (which isn't the most accurate) the M9 is now $2,999 with RC4 and $3,149 with CCDB respectively. They no longer mention anything about the Angleset, which is too bad because mine has been flawless for more than half a year.
that pricing is correct as per the newest price sheet. those prices are without the Angleset. they are still selling it, but they purposely left out the MSRP price for it on the price list.Judging by Intense's website, (which isn't the most accurate) the M9 is now $2,999 with RC4 and $3,149 with CCDB respectively. They no longer mention anything about the Angleset, which is too bad because mine has been flawless for more than half a year.
How much do you weigh, and what spring are you running; I have the vivid and a #550 (I'm currently 237 before gear) and it makes the ground go away, big, stutter, sharp edge, roller - it's pretty amazing!! I am trying to get my fork (888 - no slouch) to feel that good.
EDIT: Also note that the 3299 V10c is with RC4, which was a 199$ upcharge from Vivid I believe, not there is only RC4 and Vivid Air. It's still a price increase of 100+ but not as drastic as it seems; They must not be offering the Vivid anymore, or ran out of their lot.
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On the Vivid I'm running a 500# spring in 10" mode. I'm 205# before gear.
Sag is correct with gear on.
On the Woodie, I'm running a 550# spring and get 1" of shaft sag. The 550 seemed high but that's what Craig recommended for the Woodie.
I called him this afternoon and he recommended some setting changes that I'll try next time I head out.
Craig is a genius; that said - EVERY experienced rider or tuner I have ever discussed Avy stuff says that he likes stiff setups, and you should lie to him and tell him you're 35lbs lighter than you are, OR demand a softish setup..
take with grain of salt.
I am teh Banzai
there are some of us who prefer a stiffer setup in which case, his tuning is spot on
Only because you ate the babeh.there are some of us who prefer a stiffer setup in which case, his tuning is spot on
Where's your Avy huh? I see one of those new fangled CCDB's, eh?
I'm going to need to test ride your bike to see what you think stiff is.
Derp.
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I think a softer set up would be worse in my case.
It's not that the overall feel is stiff, it feels like the shock can't rebound fast enough to take the next small hit. That, and It feels like I'm banging off a combination of the high speed compression and natural ramp of the frame design.
Softer spring more damping, stiffer spring less damping? Dunno; people like different things, but sounds like too much damping is your enemy here if its spiking and packing (which is what it sounds to me like you are saying)
I dont think this frame ramps up very much - maybe ill need to slip an o-ring on the shock shaft somehow.
Have you opened both rebound settings and fiddled with one at a time? open the begiinign stroke wide? Parking lot tests make it seem as if there is very little obvious rebound damping - hi speed Im too busy ripping around, and it feels fine.
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Just put a dab of grease on the shaft.
hi
i tried out sooooo many different setups with the rc4 and it quite hard to find a reallly good one.
but I found now my setup
running a 500 spring in the 10 inch mode. 150 - 160 PSI in the chamber, 2 turns bottom out (startet from plus).
5 clicks LSC
0 clicks HSC
the HSC is recommended also by Fox to be opened. no clicks. I have been this weekend at the wc in leogang and spoke with a fox mechanic and he told me the same thing. the hsc is now getting better on the 2012 rc4 kashimas but on the 2011 line it is quite useless cause every click is making your setup more progressive. he recommended to use the bottom out instead of the hsc and it works better.
ride often wc tracks like maribor , leogang etc and with a harsh hsc it is quite dull to ride.
Thanks Huck,
I started the day out with stock settings on the Woodie. Half way in on high and low speed compression. And I think 4 clicks in on rebound.
I backed out the low speed a few clicks and half a turn on the high speed. This felt better, but the bike was still not as plush as my old Jedi.
Craig recommended backing out of the high speed compression completely, and adding more low speed. This seems counter intuitive to me, but his suggestion was to try and get the bike to spend more time in the initial part of the stroke. I may also be running too much rebound damping. I plan to back that out completely to see what happens. I had it set high since we were hitting a lot of jump runs that day.
The bike is running kind or turd-like at this point, but it's probably user error.
Hopefully I can get it dialed in. There are things I like a lot about the V10, but I am starting to miss my Jedi a little...good thing it's still in the shed.
Hey K1 Peeker - I'm taking my DH bike to Carrick Rd. tomorrow, care to do some shock tuning there? 4:45ish?
Hey Jim,
That sounds like a plan to me. Are you thinking of pushing up the green trail or are you talking about an XC ride on DH bikes?
Both!
Considering leverage curves and the 70+lb diff in our weights - Im thinking 450 is a little stiff for you - unless thats a preference - seems too sproingy. 550 is high side for me chart wise.
I use a Vivid Air but maybe this will be useful:
ESR: There are 6 clicks. If "1" is the least damping I use either "2" or "3".
BSR: There are 18 clicks. I use "10" or "11".
Comp: There are 6 clicks. I use "3" or "4".
I'm 165lb and 225psi results in a hair less than 30% sag. I use 75mm shaft travel on most runs.
I'm on an older mk2 V10 with a vivid air.
ESR: 2 or 3
BSR: 7-11 depending on the trail.
Comp: Depends on the trail. Help would be appreciated here, as I'm not too sure what to tune for. Pedaling or bump compliance? For my fork I use the LSC as a bit of a ride height adjuster (More comp. for the steeper stuff to keep it high in the travel)
I'm 130lbs and 150psi gives me just about 30% sag. Dropped to 140psi for my last ride, 33% and got full bottom out twice. Looking forward to N* opening up so I can get better back to back comparisons.
When adjusting compression I'm not thinking about pedaling, rather a balance between plushness and wallow resistance.
Question w/ respect to the post you responded to:
Wouldn't it be better to sag out the a55-end of the bike (and stiffen the front end) more for the steeps?
100lb spring? That seems a little light