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Middle Ring in Outer Position?

Lelandjt

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,514
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Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Not DH related!
I know this isn't the appropriate forum but it's the most likely place to get an answer. Hopefully I've helped enough of you that someone can help me this time:

I can't find a 40T ring made to mount in the outer position for use with a triple setup. I can only find ones made to mount in the middle position for use with a 2-ring setup. I think the only difference is the countersunk holes for the head of the bolts/nuts is on the wrong side. Does this matter? Can I mount a middle ring in the outer position?

Thanks.
 
A

aanon

Chimp
Nov 21, 2008
29
0
south oz
I have mounted chainrings with the recess for the head in both positions, inside and out, never had a problem.
If it is a directional ring with ramps and half teeth etc just make sure it is rotating the right way and that it is fitted in the correct ''o'clock'' position. hope this makes sense.
 
Lelandjt

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,514
827
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
heikkihall said:
I dont think the Profile rings have shifting ramps or pins. That looks like it is meant to be a single ring
Click to expand...
I don't think it has shift aids either but see the indents for the bolt heads? It's meant to be mounted in the outer position. Middle rings, DH rings, and singlespeed rings have those indents on the other side for the nut heads because they are made to mount to the inside of the spider.
 
frorider

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Lelandjt said:
I don't think it has shift aids either but see the indents for the bolt heads? It's meant to be mounted in the outer position. Middle rings, DH rings, and singlespeed rings have those indents on the other side for the nut heads because they are made to mount to the inside of the spider.
Click to expand...
 
Lelandjt

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,514
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Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
No, I understood his point and addressed it. I also pointed out that the location of the indents shows that it is designed to be an outer ring. I've used rings without shift aids and they've been fine. The big ring on the bike now has only the slightest ramps and no shaping of the teeth. On a front upshift from the middle to big ring the chain will move as fast as you can push the shifter. Just push it fast and all the way. Having the limit screw a little loose so the derailleur moves over a little extra and then comes back to rest on the cable tension helps. I do like shift aids on the middle ring. They seem to make more of a difference there.
 
frorider

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
alpine slug said:
So you flip the ring around and have the bore shoulders on the side you want.

Duh.
Click to expand...
exactly.

since you apparently don't care about pins and ramps, and just want a single speed type ring, then the terms 'inner' and 'outer' ring are meaningless...you just flip the ring around.
 
Bikael Molton

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,022
1,154
El Lay
I thought middle and big rings had the teeth offset for reasons of chainline, so they can't be simply flipped over if you want shifting to work well. I'm pretty sure none of mine are symmetrical.

EDIT: I'm talking about the profile of non-ramped/pinned chainrings.
 
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Huck Banzai

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
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Transitory
frorider said:
exactly.

since you apparently don't care about pins and ramps, and just want a single speed type ring, then the terms 'inner' and 'outer' ring are meaningless...you just flip the ring around.
Click to expand...
No, the OP said in a triple setup. This ring will not shift well if at all (theres that repeat!) and a flipped middle ring will shift poorly - pins and ramps on wrong sides, teeth gradation in wrong direction - maybe backpedal to shift you say?

Silly goose.
 
A

alpine slug

Monkey
Jun 10, 2011
190
0
Huck Banzai said:
No, the OP said in a triple setup. This ring will not shift well if at all (theres that repeat!) and a flipped middle ring will shift poorly - pins and ramps on wrong sides, teeth gradation in wrong direction - maybe backpedal to shift you say?

Silly goose.
Click to expand...
Yeah, chains have an "outside" and an "inside" and they know which side of the chainring should be "outboard" and which should be "inboard," and if you don't comply, the bike will explode.

If you've ever installed your chain in the wrong direction, be thankful you're still alive today and not dead in a MTB thermonuclear explosion.

Whatever he may have said about "triple setup," this was the ring he gave as an example of the bore shoulders being on the "wrong side"



Those ramps, pins, and tooth gradations sure are dangerous-looking! They look like if you flipped the ring over to get the shoulders on the other side, the whole freakin' bike will explode -- or melt down like a bad nuke plant.

I guess this proves you don't have to be intelligent or logical to know how to ride a bike.

It also makes me really thankful that the 3 years I spent riding a 2-ring crankset with a 34t rampless, pinless, tooth-gradation-free ring WITHOUT shifting problems proves I'm the luckiest man alive, because my bike SHOULD HAVE exploded from running a straight cut chainring in a multi-ring setting.
 
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KavuRider

KavuRider

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2006
2,565
4
CT
alpine slug said:
It also makes me really thankful that the 3 years I spent riding a 2-ring crankset with a 34t rampless, pinless, tooth-gradation-free ring WITHOUT shifting problems proves I'm the luckiest man alive, because my bike SHOULD HAVE exploded from running a straight cut chainring in a multi-ring setting.
Click to expand...
 
Huck Banzai

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
alpine slug said:
Yeah, chains have an "outside" and an "inside" and they know which side of the chainring should be "outboard" and which should be "inboard," and if you don't comply, the bike will explode.

If you've ever installed your chain in the wrong direction, be thankful you're still alive today and not dead in a MTB thermonuclear explosion.

Whatever he may have said about "triple setup," this was the ring he gave as an example of the bore shoulders being on the "wrong side"



Those ramps, pins, and tooth gradations sure are dangerous-looking! They look like if you flipped the ring over to get the shoulders on the other side, the whole freakin' bike will explode -- or melt down like a bad nuke plant.

I guess this proves you don't have to be intelligent or logical to know how to ride a bike.

It also makes me really thankful that the 3 years I spent riding a 2-ring crankset with a 34t rampless, pinless, tooth-gradation-free ring WITHOUT shifting problems proves I'm the luckiest man alive, because my bike SHOULD HAVE exploded from running a straight cut chainring in a multi-ring setting.
Click to expand...
You dive headfirst into the silly. Clarifying that, indeed, you don't need to be intelligent or logical to ride a bike.

Why the righteous indignation? Your wing-nut application has been approved.
 
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A

alpine slug

Monkey
Jun 10, 2011
190
0
Huck Banzai said:
You dive headfirst into the silly. Clarifying that, indeed, you don't need to be intelligent or logical to ride a bike.

Why the righteous indignation? Your wing-nut application has been approved.
Click to expand...
0/100 for inability to detect sarcasm

0/100 for inability to see me poking fun at myself

100/100 for complete misread of my post

0/100 for lelandjt's failure to understand drivetrains

100/100 for lelandjt's complete misunderstanding of what's important and projection of "problems" in a situation where there are none.
 
Huck Banzai

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
alpine slug said:
0/100 for inability to detect sarcasm

0/100 for inability to see me poking fun at myself

100/100 for complete misread of my post

0/100 for lelandjt's failure to understand drivetrains

100/100 for lelandjt's complete misunderstanding of what's important and projection of "problems" in a situation where there are none.
Click to expand...
My butt was hurtatin' - I gonna wipe it clean nao! ;)
 
Lelandjt

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,514
827
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
I think we've established 3 things here:
1. Chainring teeth are not offset so a ring can be flipped without affecting spacing.
2. The presence or lack of bore shoulders doesn't really matter and only affects how long a bolt you need.
3. The importance of shift aids is not agreed upon and probably depends on shifter/derailleur/chain/tuning&technique.

Thanks cuz I wasn't sure about 1&2, never seen a flipped ring. Still, I'm happy to be getting a ring that is intended to be used as an outer ring. Until I get it I don't know if it has shift aids.
Does anyone else think it's weird that a 40T triple ring is such a rare item?
 
W

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
Lelandjt said:
I think we've established 3 things here:
1. Chainring teeth are not offset so a ring can be flipped without affecting spacing.
2. The presence or lack of bore shoulders doesn't really matter and only affects how long a bolt you need.
3. The importance of shift aids is not agreed upon and probably depends on shifter/derailleur/chain/tuning&technique.

Thanks cuz I wasn't sure about 1&2, never seen a flipped ring. Still, I'm happy to be getting a ring that is intended to be used as an outer ring. Until I get it I don't know if it has shift aids.
Does anyone else think it's weird that a 40T triple ring is such a rare item?
Click to expand...
You shall hence forth be known as Demo9 of the Rockies.
 
B

bjorn

Chimp
Nov 10, 2008
12
0
Anderson Machine of Austin TX makes 40t rings for outer, with pins and ramps and all. Works best with their 30t middles. Seems to want a bit of mostly-harmless crankset tweaking for best compatability though.
 
Pau11y

Pau11y

Turbo Monkey
Oct 20, 2004
1,968
0
In a web in the corner of your room
Soo...just a couple of thoughts:
1. Who cares if the bolt head is recessed on the outside of the ring stack? On the inside, it may kick a chain too far away from the next smaller ring and the chain drops to the smallest.
2. Typically the middle and outer rings share the same bolt. In developments of CR bolts, they've redesigned them to now have either a Torx or hex head on the back side and doesn't allow the male part of the bolt to come thru the female part like it used to. So if the outside of the ring is stepped down, will there be too much CR bolt length so you'll have to use a spacer anyway?
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
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Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
Lelandjt said:
I don't think so. I've never seen writing on the inside.
Click to expand...
Really?
It happens. Especially with singlespeed rings.


Also the recesses you're looking at are exactly like every other dh/singlespeed ring out there in that all that means is that this is where a bolt head goes.....either the female side if it's the middle, or the male side if it's the outside. Every ring is like that.

That profile is nothing special. You can take any singlespeed ring out there and run it on either side, and those recesses will be on the outside as long as you put them there.

So the answer to your original question is 'yes'. And looking back on this thread, I'm not the only one telling you this. There's a reason for that.
 
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