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HT headangle

weedkilla

Monkey
Jul 6, 2008
362
10
So I've been thinking for a while that the headangle on a hardtail should be slacker than on a comparable travel duallie. Its winter time for me so its time to start ragging around on a single speed hardtail, last year I built a fairly dh specific hardtail, with a 150mm fork and a 68ish HA. It got me thinking that when you sag into the suspension the HA steepens much more than on a duallie - obviously you only compress one end. It felt way too steep, when a 150mm duallie feels a bit steep at that sort of head angle. Obviously in some situations - like braking in a steep section on a duallie the rear is fully extended while you are sagged into the fork - there is no difference in how the two compare. In most situations the hardtail is steeper.
This year a Giant STP frame has landed in the shed and I have the option of reducing the head angle with a works components reducer, so a lot more choice in how its built. I'm thinking around 67deg with a 120mm fork, 65.5ish with a 150mm fork. I am planning some more varied riding for this bike, I still want to do some trail riding, 4x, etc as well as banging out some dh runs when the mood strikes.
I guess what I'm asking is has anyone tried a hardtail with these sort of angles? I'm sure they are out there, I've just only ridden frames made with dj or xc in mind that seem to all sit in the 69-71 range.
 

W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,282
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
my Ragley has a ~64.5 HA with a 150mm Lyric at rest, sags to ~66. Your reasoning is exactly correct, a hardtail will lose HA more than a fully during compression which is exactly the reasoning behind the Ragley HA.

edit: I've found that I really ride the front of the bike to make it turn and drift more neutrally.

 
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xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
yeah, ragley has the right idea. i just picked up a bagger for a burly all mountain build - listed h/a is 64.9* static w/ a 160mm fork, 67* w/ 25% sag. makes all sorts of sense. nice low bb too. looking forward to seeing how the numbers translate.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
I found too steep, the rear will break traction too easily, too slack, the front will, and will also run wide. So the balance is where you don't have to weigh the front to much to get it to turn quick, but slack enough to keep rear grip and give confidence. I think 5" is plenty though, any more and your geo fluctuates too much IMO.
Glad this thread came up, just bought a used DMR Trailstar.
Forks with quickly adjustable travel is the key, you can change the geo to suit tracks then. I have some Kowas on order for this reason.
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,541
5,472
UK
Don't ruin a perfectly good STP frame!
They ride best with a 100mm fork (keeping the stock 69deg HA and nice low BB). I've ridden upto (or is it down to?) 63deg HA hardtails and find the slacker they are the ropier hardtails become on steeper lips
I ride my STP way more than any of the other 8 bikes I own there's absolutely nothing I couldn't ride on my STP that I do on my DH bikes.
 

weedkilla

Monkey
Jul 6, 2008
362
10
Don't ruin a perfectly good STP frame!
They ride best with a 100mm fork (keeping the stock 69deg HA and nice low BB). I've ridden upto (or is it down to?) 63deg HA hardtails and find the slacker they are the ropier hardtails become on steeper lips
I ride my STP way more than any of the other 8 bikes I own there's absolutely nothing I couldn't ride on my STP that I do on my DH bikes.

Thanks for chiming in, dont worry about ruining a good frame, its easy enough to change the headset back to standard. I've eaten enough humble pie in the past to know if it doesn't work then I can man up and admit it!
The beauty of the headset change is you keep a nice low BB height, unlike just adding a long fork to get a slack head angle, also I figure its a slacker angle when you need it most - deep in the travel.
Your comment about getting "ropier" has me though, I guess you mean they feel hard to place on steep jump lips? That would be a compromise I can live with if it felt better at speed playing tree slalom over roots and rocks.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,224
11
MTL
yeah, ragley has the right idea. i just picked up a bagger for a burly all mountain build - listed h/a is 64.9* static w/ a 160mm fork, 67* w/ 25% sag. makes all sorts of sense. nice low bb too. looking forward to seeing how the numbers translate.
Hey, this frame looks really interesting (the aluminium "Troof" counterpart too).

Pleas post pics and or impressions when you get the thing built and out there on the trails.
 

descente

Monkey
Jul 30, 2010
430
0
Sandy Eggo
i like my stp for riding everything. definitely a dialed bike, with a little slacker head angle i bet it would rip on the downhill.