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Setting up for a steep tech track

- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
And when I say steep, I mean real steep. What would you do to your bike to prepare for that?

Raise the front end makes sense. Is slacker better on steeps? I'd assume so, so I can do both at once just by dropping my forks as far as they'll go.

Maybe rotate brake levers up a bit as well to get me more over the back of the bike.

What about tyre pressures? Softer than normal I guess - rolling resistance isn't exactly a concern when you're dragging the brakes the whole way down!
 
T

thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
388
21
I primarily ride super steep trails, and like my bike set up like this.

Softer pressure, super tacky tires.
Firmer fork, softer rear, lots of low speed compression.
Shorter stem, mid rise bar height, long wheelbase, long front end, short stays, low bb.
Run levers close to bars. The bike has a pretty rearward bias, so you really want your weight over the front end.
 
bullcrew

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Dec 8, 2004
8,894
2,550
I'm dude playing dude pretending to b another dude
More upsweep on bars
slacker ha
if possible lower rear via adjustment or shorter shock
roll levers back a smidge
seat angle theres times your down giving thighs a break
new pads
scuff rotors of.glaze

edited: as stated above definently firmer fork softer rear
 
Last edited:
toodles

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,502
4,755
Australia
Get a thin saddle like a SDG I-fly or something. Bigger seats can get in the way when you're riding over the back wheel a lot and they give you sore thighs on longer runs.
 
W

WParsons

Chimp
Mar 19, 2011
71
0
thad said:
I primarily ride super steep trails, and like my bike set up like this.

Softer pressure, super tacky tires.
Firmer fork, softer rear, lots of low speed compression.
Shorter stem, mid rise bar height, long wheelbase, long front end, short stays, low bb.
Run levers close to bars. The bike has a pretty rearward bias, so you really want your weight over the front end.
Click to expand...
This guy nails it, right down to the lever set up. I love how you mention that even in the steeps you have to be centered on the bike. Good job.

Biggest thing is the firmer fork that doesn't dive as easily. I love watching guys riding steeps with a fork that it 80% into the travel because its way too soft. Then they also don't adjust their levers from pointing straight down to more leveled off to match the terrain. Looks as is they can get carpal tunnel just from reaching for their levers.
 
W

Whoops

Turbo Monkey
Jul 9, 2006
1,011
0
New Zealand
"The bike has a pretty rearward bias, so you really want your weight over the front end."

Interested by this comment. I take it to mean that because of the geometry, if one rides in the 'normal' (tending to move back as far as possible) position then the rear tyre will be overloaded and slip out easily...SO... one needs to stay centred/forward to keep weight distribution ok?

Right? Wrong?
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
TBH I think it could be easier in the wet, if it's proper wet. Mud slows you down more.
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
Well, put a drop crown on, dropped my forks by an inch. Swapped my 760 nukeproofs over for the 20mm higher version normally on my jump bike, and added a couple of clicks of compression on my 2008 Boxxer Team. Rolled my levers up a bit, and lowered my seat all I could before it started buzzing on the drops at the end of the course.

All in all it made a massive difference, gave me a lot more confidence in the steep stuff! I think this is the first time I've ever really done course-specific bike prep (other than changing tyres)!
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
thad said:
I primarily ride super steep trails, and like my bike set up like this.

Softer pressure, super tacky tires.
Firmer fork, softer rear, lots of low speed compression.
Shorter stem, mid rise bar height, long wheelbase, long front end, short stays, low bb.
Run levers close to bars. The bike has a pretty rearward bias, so you really want your weight over the front end.
Click to expand...
Id agree with almost all of this but I prefer the brakes to be mid way from the bar. I rode champery with them close and it ended in me going OTB.

Also - even high rise bar height if it is really steep wouldnt be bad. Depents on the headtube/headset/stem height.
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
Not great, but much better than 2009 on the similar track! My race run wasn't the best, but was clean and safe... I felt much better on Saturday but had a big smash Sunday morning which knocked the confidence out of me a bit. An ok result that I'm not too ashamed/annoyed of though, better than I feared, if not as good as I'd hoped. Want another run!! :)
 
S

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,114
55
Golden, CO
Whoops said:
"The bike has a pretty rearward bias, so you really want your weight over the front end."

Interested by this comment. I take it to mean that because of the geometry, if one rides in the 'normal' (tending to move back as far as possible) position then the rear tyre will be overloaded and slip out easily...SO... one needs to stay centred/forward to keep weight distribution ok?

Right? Wrong?
Click to expand...
Not a problem of overloading the rear tire, it's that you want to be able to steer, which you can't do if the front wheel is skating along.
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
As you can see, I put a drop crown on un-necessarily. I normally have an inch of stanchion above my flat crown. My plan was to put the drop crown on, and drop them all the way. That left me with some comical looking forks that I thought would probably snap though, so I had to reign it back an inch, leaving me in the same position I would have been if I'd just dropped them all the way in my regular crown. Wasted faff!
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Wait I dont understand one thing - you drop your crowns = lowering your fork. Wouldnt it counter the higher bar and steepen the ha?
 
J

JimLad

Monkey
Sep 23, 2009
101
2
Whistler
norbar said:
Wait I dont understand one thing - you drop your crowns = lowering your fork. Wouldnt it counter the higher bar and steepen the ha?
Click to expand...
With the tall crown and the stanchions as low as possible you would raise the front end of the bike (and slacken it)
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
Yeah, drop the stanchions in the crowns, rather than drop the crowns down the stanchions :)
 
manhattanprjkt83

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,646
1,217
Nilbog
great thread...i thought i had all the answers on this one...learned a few things...

LSC seems like one of the biggest ones so you don't stack up.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
thad said:
I primarily ride super steep trails, and like my bike set up like this.

Softer pressure, super tacky tires.
Firmer fork, softer rear, lots of low speed compression.
Shorter stem, mid rise bar height, long wheelbase, long front end, short stays, low bb.
Run levers close to bars. The bike has a pretty rearward bias, so you really want your weight over the front end.
Click to expand...
Most of that is correct, and I've found it pretty critical to change setup for really steep tracks - otherwise you're just going to flip when you start going fast.

I disagree on the rearward weight bias though (unless I'm misreading?) - the steeper the track, the more weight is on the front. That's why we run a ~15/30% (f/r) sag bias, because it evens up when the terrain angles down. More weight on front wheel means that it dives more, and can afford to sit higher without sacrificing front traction - which is why you can (and should) do a lot of what you suggested (firmer fork, softer rear etc).

A drop crown for boxxers is handy, or dropping your 40 stanchions most of the way down (depends on headtube length). A flat bar can kill off excess ride height caused by this if needed, but some extra frontend height will add confidence anyway.

You can also get away with a LOT of compression damping on the front, as the impacts don't tend to occur in the conventional ways that cause hand/arm pump (i.e. fast braking bumps) - so you tend to avoid the nasty harshness that you'd get from running it so firm on normal tracks.

The other thing that I don't think was mentioned was rebound damping - you can run it a click or two slower on the rear which will keep the rear dynamically lower, and the head angle dynamically slacker.

Whoops said:
"The bike has a pretty rearward bias, so you really want your weight over the front end."

Interested by this comment. I take it to mean that because of the geometry, if one rides in the 'normal' (tending to move back as far as possible) position then the rear tyre will be overloaded and slip out easily...SO... one needs to stay centred/forward to keep weight distribution ok?

Right? Wrong?
Click to expand...
The statement made me wonder as well (see above) but I haven't found what you said there to be true. You can get away with riding further over the back on super steep tracks, and unless it's really slick, I haven't found the rear tyre ever getting overloaded and slipping out.

norbar said:
Id agree with almost all of this but I prefer the brakes to be mid way from the bar. I rode champery with them close and it ended in me going OTB.
Click to expand...
Not really sure brake lever setup would have had much to do with it, but you should have ridden the original champery track... imagine the current one minus most of the catch berms! :p
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Udi said:
Not really sure brake lever setup would have had much to do with it, but you should have ridden the original champery track... imagine the current one minus most of the catch berms! :p
Click to expand...
Yeah, ive heard about it and that would be ridiculous. Have you tried riding it then? This one was rideable but I entered it a little cocky after visiting Schlad, Maribor and Leo and feeling good there. A trackwalk would help me there a lot. Wish I did a few more runs of that track. Well maybe next time since 2 weeks in Morzine left me wanting more.

Also - it may be only me but levers catching closer to the bars make it harder to modulate. Though I have longish fingers so close to the grip is ****ty for me anywhere.

btw. I will maybe visit in for the worlds to see how the WC nutjobs ride it but it may colide with work or my exams.
 
T

thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
388
21
Udi said:
I disagree on the rearward weight bias though (unless I'm misreading?) - the steeper the track, the more weight is on the front. That's why we run a ~15/30% (f/r) sag bias, because it evens up when the terrain angles down. More weight on front wheel means that it dives more, and can afford to sit higher without sacrificing front traction - which is why you can (and should) do a lot of what you suggested (firmer fork, softer rear etc).
Click to expand...
What I meant by "rearward weight bias", is that by running a shorter stem, and shorter chainstays, my body weight is moved rearward on the bike in comparison to the typical setup. This way, I am not trying to get my weight back on steeps, locking out my arms and letting the front wheel wander.

Instead, I am getting my weight lower, but not back. Instead I have my chest right over the bars, and am aggressively driving the front tire in with my inside hand, and getting the rear to follow with my hips and rear brake.

DOOOOOOGGGGGG PARTY!
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
thad said:
What I meant by "rearward weight bias", is that by running a shorter stem, and shorter chainstays, my body weight is moved rearward on the bike in comparison to the typical setup. This way, I am not trying to get my weight back on steeps, locking out my arms and letting the front wheel wander.

Instead, I am getting my weight lower, but not back. Instead I have my chest right over the bars, and am aggressively driving the front tire in with my inside hand, and getting the rear to follow with my hips and rear brake.

DOOOOOOGGGGGG PARTY!
Click to expand...
The shorter stem is very dependant on the frame you have. If you go too short it will feel really akward in the steeps
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
thad said:
That has not been my experience.
Click to expand...
It is very dependant on the frame. Mine is already quite compact in the tt area so a short stem makes you feel cramped and raises your body. You probably just never went too short ;)
 
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