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Handlebars, going...retro?

Sandwich

Sandwich

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I'm thinking about switching from riser bars back to flats...I like the layout of my cockpit right now, but I'd like to add bar ends, save weight, and get a slightly wider and slightly lower front end. Has anybody made the same switch, while keeping their front end from dropping too much? I don't want to slam my front end in the weeds like an XC racer, and my current setup is a 40mm rise bar and 6* stem. Can I switch to a higher rise stem with flat bar and stay similar? What rise will I need?
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
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Wait what? You want to swap to a flat bar but keep your bar height about the same? Does not compute.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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Just something like this would be nice. I grew up with bar ends (before the radical bro-brah freeriser bar era) and wouldn't mind getting some now...but my back likes a little bit of rise.
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
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Sandwich said:
I disagree.

I want to move to flat bars to save weight if possible and I'm confused as to why riser bars exist if you can get a stem at the right height. So, can I get my bars to the right height...
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Probably but any stem that's going to be that high is going to more than negate your weight savings from the bars.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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Srsly? What do you think the difference between a 90 x 6* stem and 40mm rise bars vs. 90 x 12* and flat bars is? Or rather, what's the difference in stem weight? What degree rise would make it similar?

I really have no idea.
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
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At 90mm you're going to need about a 30 degree stem to get back up there. Nobody makes high end (read: light) stems that steep that I can think of off the top of my head.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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golgiaparatus said:
Feels right to me now... 26ers feel like I'm trying to ride on a roller skate. Which is why most people that ride a 29er for a week don't go back.
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if i rode a 29'er for a week i'd wanna shoot myself in the head. then again, if i rode a 29'er that long i'd be dead inside anyways.


I like 26" because it's more agile, and I have ridden tons of bmx over the years, so i'm more comfortable with it. 29'ers feel way to sluggish for me (in terms of turning and general handling responsiveness). Too much like a road bike, but I'm sure for some people, that's exactly what they're after.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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Well, I did some sciencey **** (aka trigonometry) and determined the appropriate angles. Assuming 40mm rise is vertical and not canted at all, and flat bars have no rise:

32* gets me exactly where I am now, with about 47mm of rise (actual rise on mine is 9.4mm via the stem, but my calc did not have inverse sin)
25* gets me 38mm, or 10mm lower
20* gets me 30mm of rise
17* gets me 26mm

Any lower than that is too much for the purpose of this experiment. 30* wasn't too far off, doctor science.
 
golgiaparatus

golgiaparatus

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jonKranked said:
if i rode a 29'er for a week i'd wanna shoot myself in the head. then again, if i rode a 29'er that long i'd be dead inside anyways.

I like 26" because it's more agile, and I have ridden tons of bmx over the years, so i'm more comfortable with it. 29'ers feel way to sluggish for me (in terms of turning and general handling responsiveness). Too much like a road bike, but I'm sure for some people, that's exactly what they're after.
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To each his own though... if you like a flicky bike then 26ers are more flicky feeling... if you like a stable feeling bike... 29er.

I don't get the comparison to road though... my road bike feels far more twitchy and quick steering than even my old 26" race bike did, and it was twitchy for a MTB.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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golgiaparatus said:
I don't get the comparison to road though... my road bike feels far more twitchy and quick steering than even my old 26" race bike did, and it was twitchy for a MTB.
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if you look at the geometry numbers, most 29'ers are closer to road bikes than 26" mtb's. steeper head tubes, more bb drop, longer wheel bases, etc.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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ok you two, this is not a 29er discussion. Jon hates 29ers, golgibody lubs them. To each their own.


NAO...do i go 20* rise easton ea70, or 25* salsa promoto...hmmf
 
golgiaparatus

golgiaparatus

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jonKranked said:
if you look at the geometry numbers, most 29'ers are closer to road bikes than 26" mtb's. steeper head tubes, more bb drop, longer wheel bases, etc.
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If you compare the 26er geometry, to a like purposed 29er geometry, to a roadbike... the 26er and the 29er are quite close... with the roadbike being on a whole other planet.

Head Tube: 26e and 29er separated by only about half a degree, roadbike steeper by another 3 degrees.

Wheelbase: 29er is 15mm longer than the 26er, roadbike is 100mm less. Making the 26er closer to the roadbike in this case.

BB Height: 26er and 29er are identical. BB Drop is a no brainer... of course the 29er has more drop, bigger wheels it's axles are higher off the ground.


BACK TO TOPIC:
I choose my flats based on sweep and length. I like the FSA SLK bars @ 620mm with a conservative sweep.

Coming off risers you'll probably want more length and more sweep... check out the Niner Carbon bars or the Salsa Carbon Bars... lots of sweep, much longer than your average flat bar.
 
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jonKranked

jonKranked

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golgiaparatus said:
If you compare the 26er geometry, to a like purposed 29er geometry, to a roadbike... the 26er and the 29er are quite close... with the roadbike being on a whole other planet.

Head Tube: 26e and 29er separated by only about half a degree, roadbike steeper by another 3 degrees.

Wheelbase: 29er is 15mm longer than the 26er, roadbike is 100mm less. Making the 26er closer to the roadbike in this case.

BB Height: 26er and 29er are identical. BB Drop is a no brainer... of course the 29er has more drop, bigger wheels it's axles are higher off the ground.
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you should know bb drop is more important than bb height (which is why a lot of companies are starting to list bb rise/drop instead of anticipated bb height)

you can't have a 15mm longer wheel base for a wheel that much larger without risking toe clip, or having something else wonky.

if your wheel base and head angle are comprable, your TT is gonna be way short.

then again, you're talking to a guy who rides a slalom bike for xc :D
 
golgiaparatus

golgiaparatus

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Sandwich said:
Start your own thread i'm getting butthurt
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Salsa Promoto.


Now back to the butthurt...

JK... of course you dont like 29ers if you ride a slalom bike for XC. 29ers are typically designed for XC racing. Even the most trailish 29ers are closer to an XC racebike than what you're use to riding.

BTW comparing BB drop of bikes with different wheel sizes doesn't make any sense. If the 29er had the same BB drop of a 26 bike your center of grav would be all jacked up.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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golgiaparatus said:
JK... of course you dont like 29ers if you ride a slalom bike for XC. 29ers are typically designed for XC racing. Even the most trailish 29ers are closer to an XC racebike than what you're use to riding.
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what's funny is that i habitually fly past riders on 29'ers when riding my slalom bike. fwiw i use a longer fork and rear shock to get it to sit a little higher off the ground.

golgiaparatus said:
BTW comparing BB drop of bikes with different wheel sizes doesn't make any sense. If the 29er had the same BB drop of a 26 bike your center of grav would be all jacked up.
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it makes sense in that it will affect how you turn. and how hard it is to manual.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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golgiaparatus said:
Salsa Promoto.


Now back to the butthurt...

JK... of course you dont like 29ers if you ride a slalom bike for XC. 29ers are typically designed for XC racing. Even the most trailish 29ers are closer to an XC racebike than what you're use to riding.

BTW comparing BB drop of bikes with different wheel sizes doesn't make any sense. If the 29er had the same BB drop of a 26 bike your center of grav would be all jacked up.
Click to expand...
wai to the promoto? It's cheaper, that makes me happy.
 
A

auntesther

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Oct 15, 2001
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Sandwich

I did a similar swap about a year ago...I did it mainly to drop my bar height. Went from risers to some Salsa Moto flat bars with a similar sweep as my risers. For some reason it didnt feel right. I messed with the stem height etc but it just felt more cramped. Sweep similar, width similar, but didnt jive. I think it had alot to do with how you set you bars i.e rotated forward or back.

Anyway I still have the Salsa bars if you feel like trying them. CrabJoe has free access to my bike parts and can grab em for you to try out if you want. They are currently just sitting there collecting dust.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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Word nerd. I might ask em for them on our next ride. I'd be happy to pay you cashes if it works out, or pull them off and buy my own if you want to keep them.

I realized today that I have a ton of stack height via 10mm of spacers on top of the rise bars and stem....and that I honestly don't like it. I can probably ditch the spacers or just drop to a flat bar and be pretty happy.
 
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