Quantcast

Boxxer WC stuck down, then won't refill negative chamber

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
In whistler right now so really fortunate spot and all. My boxxer stuck down (not bad, about an inch). I pulled it up with some man strength and now it's stuck topped out. Not stuck stuck, I can still press on the thing but the negative air chamber isn't filling up and resetting. Plz halp. I'm almost done with my beer and have to ride again soon.
 

Manifesto

Monkey
Aug 16, 2009
190
5
your moms basement
In whistler right now so really fortunate spot and all. My boxxer stuck down (not bad, about an inch). I pulled it up with some man strength and now it's stuck topped out. Not stuck stuck, I can still press on the thing but the negative air chamber isn't filling up and resetting. Plz halp. I'm almost done with my beer and have to ride again soon.
theres your problem
 

JohnnyC

Monkey
Feb 10, 2006
399
1
Rotorua, New Zealand
Solo air does have a negative spring, its just set automatically from the one valve, hence the "solo".

I haven't been inside a new boxxer, but the older solo air assemblys had a check valve that opened at top-out to equalize the pressures, this must be jamming, so take it out and see what causing it. Might just need a little bit of grease.
 

stumpjump

Monkey
Sep 14, 2007
673
0
DC
Having rebuilt a few new boxxers, I would reccommend checking the oil levels in the air side. make sure theres oil in there otherwise it could just be the o-rings stuck in the stanchion. Id say regrease the rings and empty and refill the oils and youll most likely be back in business.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
It's been a while since I've had a BWC apart and I'm a little drunk too, but if it's anything like other RS Solo Air forks, there's a little valve that opens on top out to equalize the positive and negative chambers. Sounds like it's fvcking up. I had a similar problem with my Totem at one point, just taking it apart and reassembling properly after cleaning and lubing everything got it sorted.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I went back out and beat the piss out of it on some dry Osin and in deep thinking that might do it. No dice. It's got to be the check valve schrader thing. I tried resetting with zero and lots of pressure like 8 times before asking.

It's rideable but it ain't right. I just rode for another four hours on the thing but I'd like it to work. Thanks for the help guys, I forgot about the schrader in there. I rebuilt it about two weeks ago so it's lubed. Maybe too lubed.
 

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,400
47
Vancouver, BC
2011 or 2010? 2010 didn't have that Schrader valve and instead had a wavy washer that is prone to breaking and generally ****ing **** up...
 

Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
what's up with the extreme disdain for sram? i've had mostly really good experiences with their products....drivetrains have been great for years, brakes are great aside from a couple issues with master cylinders here and there, but overall, nothing out of the ordinary compared to the competition...

i prefer the standard R2C2 due to it's simplicity but most people have good luck with the WC....anyways...hope you get your fork running....have a blast up there....
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
2011 or 2010? 2010 didn't have that Schrader valve and instead had a wavy washer that is prone to breaking and generally ****ing **** up...
2011. I met a guy today who said he's seen some problems with that happening before.


I've got no gripes with sram. Shlt happens and I'm the one who rebuilt the fork. I doubt it's a big deal, I just have to go in and check that valve. I may have even smashed it with my man strength pulling up on it.....or got some dirty grease in it....whatever. Right now it rides like a marzocchi air fork so it can only get better. :)

With a dry upper mountain and what's been done to the crabapple hits, life's good.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
what's up with the extreme disdain for sram? i've had mostly really good experiences with their products....drivetrains have been great for years, brakes are great aside from a couple issues with master cylinders here and there, but overall, nothing out of the ordinary compared to the competition...

i prefer the standard R2C2 due to it's simplicity but most people have good luck with the WC....anyways...hope you get your fork running....have a blast up there....
I´ve had 3 rockshox shocks over the last 2 years.
Tora, Domain and Totem.

- Tora converted into a rigid fork after 18 months of use, lockout stopped working at 12 months.
- Domain seals lasted about 6 months before squirting oil. This was the best rockshox product i owned, basically because it was the base model, and few things could go wrong.
- Totem developed bushing play after 4 rides. 2-step would get stuck down. Seals went at 6 months.

66% failure rate over 1 year is just awful.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
I´ve had 3 rockshox shocks over the last 2 years.
Tora, Domain and Totem.

- Tora converted into a rigid fork after 18 months of use, lockout stopped working at 12 months.
- Domain seals lasted about 6 months before squirting oil. This was the best rockshox product i owned, basically because it was the base model, and few things could go wrong.
- Totem developed bushing play after 4 rides. 2-step would get stuck down. Seals went at 6 months.

66% failure rate over 1 year is just awful.
I've had a Totem, a Lyric, and a Boxxer.

Blew up 1 damper and 1 set of air spring o-rings in the Totem, over about a year.

Boxxer seals started leaking a little after about a year.

Lyric has been flawless.

YMMV.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
I´ve had 3 rockshox shocks over the last 2 years.
Tora, Domain and Totem.
did you try repairing them? just guesses, but all that stuff sounds like normal things to address on a bike.

- Tora converted into a rigid fork after 18 months of use - likely rebound seal head leaded enough fluid into lowers to hydrollically lockout the fork
- Tora - lockout stopped working at 12 months - fluid was slowly leaking into the lowers (see above), so when the fluid level was too low, it stopped engaging the lockout.

- Domain seals lasted about 6 months before squirting oil. then replace the seals. $20 in parts.

- Totem developed bushing play after 4 rides - warranty, they would send you a new fork, or new lowers immediately.
-2-step would get stuck down - 10 minute repair to re-bleed the 2-step system
-Seals went at 6 months. $20 in parts repair

basically all of that is normal wear and tear on mtb parts, IMO.
 

Beast

Turbo Monkey
May 23, 2002
1,579
0
Where the riding is good
basically all of that is normal wear and tear on mtb parts, IMO.
Agreed, although it depends on how often you ride. MTBers seem to expect that forks/shocks will work flawlessly forever and rarely service them. Check the service intervals in your manual folks, they are there for a reason. MX has this figured out.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
leaking rebound seal, seals lasting 6 months and having to rebleed a fork is normal wear and tear? oh thats right, its a RS product :think:
no ****!
each of those forks, were used on average twice a month. on 6 months, thats about 12 uses before something went wrong.

I think is reasonable to expect AT LEAST a year of trouble-free use from any "higher end" piece of machinery (a $1000 bicycle fork is definately HIGH END MACHINERY").

i just cant understand how the mountain bike market can settle for such under-engineered over-marketed products.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
leaking rebound seal, seals lasting 6 months and having to rebleed a fork is normal wear and tear? oh thats right, its a RS product :think:
you are right. nobody has ever had an issue, ever, with a marzocchi, fox, manitou, etc.

the last gen fox 40's had to re-bleed the sealed cart every ~10 rides, pissing oil out of fox forks, and the fix was to run ROCKSHOX seals. the volume adjust piece of crap on 888 forces a fork overhaul every 20 rides or so, and on.
 
Last edited:

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Check the service intervals in your manual folks, they are there for a reason.
does it say to replace the seals that often, or the need to re-bleed the system, or to replace "worn rebound seal?" no it doesnt.



you are right. nobody has ever had an issue, ever, with a marzocchi, fox, manitou, etc.

the last gen fox 40's had to re-bleed the sealed cart every ~10 rides, pissing oil out of fox forks, and the fix was to run ROCKSHOX seals. the volume adjust piece of crap on 888 forces a fork overhaul every 20 rides or so, and on.
no one ever said any other mfg has never had issues....but no other mfg has had so many issues across almost their ENTIRE line, like RS has.
thank god for good CS :rolleyes:
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,942
24,512
media blackout
no one ever said any other mfg has never had issues....but no other mfg has had so many issues across almost their ENTIRE line, like RS has.
thank god for good CS :rolleyes:
even crazier to think this is an IMPROVEMENT over what their stuff was before sram bought them
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,942
24,512
media blackout
the last gen fox 40's had to re-bleed the sealed cart every ~10 rides, pissing oil out of fox forks, and the fix was to run ROCKSHOX seals.
i've got an '08 fox 40... has none of those issues. yea, i've blown the cart (once) and had to get it rebuilt. i'm running enduro seals now. big improvement over the stock seals, but even the stock ones never "pissed oil".
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I start a thread about a boxxer valve that I most likely stuffed too much grease into and guys start bltching about lockouts on toras? :rofl:

You guys read the internet too much. I've had great luck with RS forks. But then again when my seals start leaking after hundreds of hours of riding, I replace them, not gripe about design flaws. God knows every talas out there has worked flawlessly from the get go, and certainly no marzocchi fork has ever had bushing slop. And I've definitely never seen any problems whatsoever with that goofy bladder thing on 40s.

Anyway, just cleared out the internal schrader on my fork and it's worked wonderfully this morning. I think I just got ambitious with the slick honey.
 

tuumbaq

Monkey
Jul 5, 2006
725
0
Squamish BC
And I've definitely never seen any problems whatsoever with that goofy bladder thing on 40s.

The bladder issue is history BTW...new design, problem solved...or at least I haven't had any problem nor heard about anyone with blown bladder yet ...

Still, 40's are like anything else out there and they are not perfect...but I gotta say Sram does have a tendency to build **** that breaks more than others it seems ;)

Im no Boxxer guru, dont even know what the valve is but 2 of my friends recently had a similar issue, both on 2011 at the time, one of 'em now has a 2012 cause it had all kinds of other issues and RS warrantied it. I think It was a faulty o-ring if I recall or something like that , pretty sure it wasnt a valve...Anyhow I remember it was a quick an easy fix ...not sure if that helps or not but its all I got...Hope you get to shred again soon...Regardless of what you may ride the mountain WILL break it , so go ahead and beat the crap out of her before she breaks your bike again :thumb:
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
The Problem is the Positive and Negative Air isn't Equalizing correctly. Most likely an O-ring got out of place. Or the wavy spring washer on top of the air piston needs to be replaced. Take the air spring apart, make sure the O-rings are not damaged and are in the correct place. Also check the O ring on the bottom of the Main piston. Make sure its seated correctly. (You have to take the small C-clip off then the wavy spring washer and small bumper to get the air piston off) Check the wavy spring washer. There should be some play (approx 1-2mm) for the Main piston to move up and down (This is what allows the Positive and Negative Air chamber to bleed) But it should have some resistance due to the small wavy spring washer. (These tend to fail a lot on a lot of Solo Air forks. Good thing is Rock Shox fixed it with a new air assembly for 2011.


Also take that oil foam ring on the top of the air piston out. It creates more problems and helps the fork run smoother.
 

go-ride.com

Monkey
Oct 23, 2001
548
6
Salt Lake City, UT
The lubricating oil from the lowers has worked its way above the solo air valve and is preventing the negative from charging. Remove the air cap, dump out any oil from air leg, reinstall cap and air pressure. Should fix it.
 
Last edited:

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,377
156
Spreckels, CA
The lubricating oil from the lowers has worked its way above the solo air valve and is preventing the negative from charging. Remove the air cap, dump out any oil from air leg, reinstall cap and air pressure. Should fix it.
I get stoked every time I hear about a shop that knows how to work on suspension.


That's all I had to add. :thumb:
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Um guys.....guys.....read a few posts above. I pulled the fork apart yesterday morning and fixed it. :P

I rode it all day yesterday (like 7 hours) and no problems. It was definitely too much of the lubricating oil and slick honey goo on the top of the piston blocking the valve at topout.

Scott: I pulled the whole air spring apart, snap ring and all. If this happens again I'll try it your way....sounds MUCH easier. Having the piston in hand though, I could be sure the valve was clear at least. I literally blew out a glob of grease when I cleaned it.

Like I mentioned above, I think I just had too much grease in there on the piston that wasn't allowing the oil to clear the valve. When it stuck down a bit and I yanked on it, the topout/negative chamber equalized with the main chamber but couldn't work the other way. It's all good now. Thanks for all the help.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
Um guys.....guys.....read a few posts above. I pulled the fork apart yesterday morning and fixed it. :P

I rode it all day yesterday (like 7 hours) and no problems. It was definitely too much of the lubricating oil and slick honey goo on the top of the piston blocking the valve at topout.

Scott: I pulled the whole air spring apart, snap ring and all. If this happens again I'll try it your way....sounds MUCH easier. Having the piston in hand though, I could be sure the valve was clear at least. I literally blew out a glob of grease when I cleaned it.

Like I mentioned above, I think I just had too much grease in there on the piston that wasn't allowing the oil to clear the valve. When it stuck down a bit and I yanked on it, the topout/negative chamber equalized with the main chamber but couldn't work the other way. It's all good now. Thanks for all the help.

JESUS MAN!
you are interrupting on my RS hating