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Anyone fiddle with the Boxxer RC??

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,750
439
MA
So my 2012 Boxxer RC has been a commendable fork thus far, but it was thoroughly outclassed this past weekend on tracks that were steeper, required more braking, and had a healthy mix of sizable chatter and larger hits.

190lbs, Stock Spring.

First thing I went to adjust was the rebound to make sure that I wasn't packing up or had the rebound too fast. I made one click adjustments each run and found that my initial setting was more or less ideal. Speeding up the rebound resulted in more bar feedback. I added a bit more rebound damping and could tell right away that any more and I would have some packing issues. The front end started to loose that "pop" for pumping and doubling features and I could feel that the front end was riding a bit lower.

So after feeling that I had ruled out rebound, I opted to start playing with the LSC. The thinking being that I was transitioning to HSC compression too soon because of the combined effect of steepness, front braking, and medium sized hits and holes. I was running absolutely no clicks of LSC to start. In my defense the places I had previously rode were tracks where personally, I felt like I didn't need to pay too much attention to suspension setup as I could account for any deficiencies with how I rode and the suspension was feeling ok. I added one click of LSC and truthfully was not able to tell much difference. When I had added a second click I noticed that choppiness was exaggerated and very much more so by the third click. I backed off the LSC so it was at 1 click and more or less rode the bike with the setup I had started with.

I'm going to open up the internals this weekend as the fork is in need of a service and hopefully see what is going on and maybe what can be done. Has anyone worked with this fork or discovered any mods to get the LSC & HSC in order? Anything similar inside the fork like the gate in the older model Boxxer's? Lastly, I'm not looking to make a mod that essentially gets rid of all damping in order to have a "smoother" fork that sometimes freeride type riders sometimes do.
 

ustemuf

Monkey
Apr 8, 2010
198
15
Bay Area
tracks that were steeper

190lbs, Stock Spring.

i stopped right there.. get the firm spring. you want a stiffer fork (compared to your rear) when you are doing steep stuff. plus at 190, if you have any speed at all the medium spring will be way too soft.

gotta run the right spring before you fine tune it with the damper.
 

nh dude

Monkey
May 30, 2003
571
16
Vt
i stopped right there.. get the firm spring. you want a stiffer fork (compared to your rear) when you are doing steep stuff. plus at 190, if you have any speed at all the medium spring will be way too soft.

gotta run the right spring before you fine tune it with the damper.

at 160 i have the medium spring in my 2010 team . for the past weekend i ran 4 or 5 clicks of hsc and lsc a 2 or 3 + normal setup. I second going to the firmer spring. That course was nuts on Sunday A.M. Everyone felt like ass compared to Saturday another variable.
I was on the soft yellow spring in May and as soon as i upped to red medium spring the fork worked better, stayed up and was just as supple . Again thanks for helping me out a while back with the cut up g.f. platty is nuts.
 

JimLad

Monkey
Sep 23, 2009
101
2
Whistler
I read on here that someone had removed the shimstack from the damper, which might help to reduce some spiking in the HSC circuit (like on the old 06-09 moco). That's about it so far, having had a quick look at the new damper there is no convenient threaded rod like before to internally adjust the blowoff point.
 

jutny

Monkey
Jan 15, 2009
306
0
Montclair, NJ
not a boxxer but I had the exact same issues you described on my 40 when i started riding steeper tracks (plattekill vs diablo, for example) and found the solution in the stiffer spring (green vs blue). I was 195ish then and it was the best thing I ever did for my bike.

This year, at 185-190 I feel like I'm right on the line but I'm sticking with the heavier spring, I guess I'll just have to get faster.

The way I see it is, the damper is only in there to control the motions of the spring. So if that's not equipped to handle the forces for your weight and riding style, the damper will be out of its element.
 

JimLad

Monkey
Sep 23, 2009
101
2
Whistler
More LSC will help in steeper terrain to stop the fork diving. Spring rate should be set by the sag (or if you are riding really fast then go harder).
 

davetrump

Turbo Monkey
Jul 29, 2003
1,270
0
you need to put the stiffer spring in there... you are over riding it at 190lbs

I am 160 and switch between the stock (red) and firm (blue) depending on the type of terrain. usually about 3 or 4 clicks on compression does the trick for either.
 

illnotsick

Monkey
Jun 3, 2009
257
0
I read somewhere that rockshox suggests thinking of the ending stroke rebound like a ride-height adjustment, and setting the beginning to your preference. I tuned my friend boxxer team that way. and I just read that you're using the RC, so that doesn't help at all.

Try a stiffer spring I guess.
 

Freeridin'

Monkey
Oct 23, 2006
316
2
Colorado
I've been messing with my 2011 RC for some time no to no avail. Ordered up an Avalanche cart a few hours ago.

I weight 170 and get 25% sag with the stock red spring. However, I could only get 7" of travel. Removed 2 preload spacers, no results. Ran a lighter oil in the dampening (about 3.5wt.) helped get all 8" but sacrificed the dampening on high speed hits.

The softer yellow spring gave me nearly 35% sag, but bottomed out too easily. Added compression helped on big hits but everything else felt horrible.

The stock spring for your weight sounds about right. Going to the firm spring I would be weary if you would get all of the travel. Changing oil in the damper is worth experimenting with but will also affect your rebound. I've also heard of people modding the ports on the damper, essentially drilling them out wider.

Good luck.
 

drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
I read on here that someone had removed the shimstack from the damper, which might help to reduce some spiking in the HSC circuit (like on the old 06-09 moco). That's about it so far, having had a quick look at the new damper there is no convenient threaded rod like before to internally adjust the blowoff point.

i'm picking up a boxxer rc tomorrow..so i've been trying to research about things i can do to improve it's characteristics in the meantime before i get a avy/elka/cr1 cart for it.

read about removing shims in the damper, but that was for a few yr older domain...

anybody know which and how many/which shim(z) to remove to improve the ride from the moco damper in the rc?
 

CraigRea

Chimp
Aug 25, 2011
9
0
Bought my 2011 Boxxer RC's fairly recently, talked to the suspension guy at ChainReaction Cycles and advised me to remove the oil seals completely and to drill an extra hole in the compression camper to increase oil flow for small bump sensitivity.
Was a litte bit wary at first but oh my god- they are unreal. The only downside is that the compression adjuster doesn't work as well as it did as all the holes aren't completely covered when compression is on (but who uses it anyway)

I highly recommend doing this to anyone with RC's that want more from them.

Craig
 

karpi

Monkey
Apr 17, 2006
904
0
Santiasco, Chile
yeah that mods sounds like an interesting idea!

Im 160 - 170 ish and run the stock spring (tried the stiffer one but didnt feel I was going fast enough for it and the wheel would wash out) with 4 - 5 clicks of compression, normally 5, but first time down a track I'll go with 4, and thats about right... get enough support from the fork to push of off what I need, it doesnt dive too much, doesnt bottom out too much either... its seems to be running perfect. I regrease and change oil at least once every two months. Im running enduro seals and they've worked perfectly so far, every time I remove the oil it still looks like new.
 

drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
No way man, I am not restripping my forks to show you a 0.5mm hole drilled right next to another one. It's really simple- literally a 1 hour job.

Oh and another thing i'd recommend as fork grease-

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=36081

It's UNREAL. Better than the Stendec stuff.


well it was more of a curiosity of where you drilled, and how large of an orifice you drilled than needing pics.. i guess when i tear the fork apart tomorrow, ill have a better understanding of what's going on.

so are we talking about drilling a .5mm hole in the black shimstack?

thanks...appreciate you providing some good/new (for many people) info about modding the moco.
 
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drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
No way man, I am not restripping my forks to show you a 0.5mm hole drilled right next to another one. It's really simple- literally a 1 hour job.
.
just took the fork apart and gave it a good servicing.

when u mean drill a .5mm hole, did you mean next to one of these 3 pre existing holes? when the damper is full CCW, 3 holes are open. when the damper is CW it starts closing over the holes.






here's the shimstack...anyone play around w/ adding/removing shimz? looks like there's 3 stacked in a 'pyramid' stack, w/ the largest on the lowest end of the damper.

my fork only came w/ the yellow (140-160lb) and blue (180-200) spring. im ~160-165lb + riding gear. riding terrain is a mix of smooth/fast, rocky sections on hardparcked, and 10-30ft jumps in the mix, so the blue will probably fit best. wondering if removing the largest shim will aid in LSC characteristics and make HS a little more forgiving using the blue spring..

 

CraigRea

Chimp
Aug 25, 2011
9
0
I drilled another hole, the exact same size as close as I could to one of the 3, meaning that when it is fully closed there is on hole still in view- but who puts their compression on full anyway. Becareful about drilling it also- just go through the plastic and nothing else.

About shims, I didn't go near them. Maybe see how good it is after drilling then think about shims?

Are you removing the oil seals altogether as well?

Craig
 

drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
drastic i have an extra red spring you can come pick it up for free in san ramon

sweet. i will definately take u up on that offer. i just picked up your buddy will's rc few days ago.

it got the blue in there, but i definately can't huck like that guy, so im thinking the red is more fitting.

ill pm ya for ur addy info.

need a yellow or blue spring?
 

drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
I drilled another hole, the exact same size as close as I could to one of the 3, meaning that when it is fully closed there is on hole still in view- but who puts their compression on full anyway. Becareful about drilling it also- just go through the plastic and nothing else.

About shims, I didn't go near them. Maybe see how good it is after drilling then think about shims?

Are you removing the oil seals altogether as well?

Craig
awesome, that was exactly what i was looking for.

im out for a few wks with a broken R pinky, and fractured L wrist, so anticipation is killing me on testing things out (med spring, firm spring, drill hole, playing w/ the shimstack)..

im not familiar w/ the oil seals thing...whats the pros/cons?

pro?:
2 less seals to purchase/service
main purpose im assuming: much less stichion

con?:
dirty oil faster
shorter oil changing intervals.


did you do both mods at the same time, or did you do them at separate times?
 
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CraigRea

Chimp
Aug 25, 2011
9
0
awesome, that was exactly what i was looking for.

im out for a few wks with a broken R pinky, and fractured L wrist, so anticipation is killing me on testing things out (med spring, firm spring, drill hole, playing w/ the shimstack)..

im not familiar w/ the oil seals thing...whats the pros/cons?

pro?:
2 less seals to purchase/service
main purpose im assuming: much less stichion

con?:
dirty oil faster
shorter oil changing intervals.


did you do both mods at the same time, or did you do them at separate times?

I did them both at the same time yes, I'd say that with more attention to cleaning the forks than normal the oil should last just as long.

But the advantage with it is- if i find it messing me about I can fire the oil seals back in and it'll be grand!

Craig
 

ustemuf

Monkey
Apr 8, 2010
198
15
Bay Area
sweet. i will definately take u up on that offer. i just picked up your buddy will's rc few days ago.

it got the blue in there, but i definately can't huck like that guy, so im thinking the red is more fitting.

ill pm ya for ur addy info.

need a yellow or blue spring?
haha nice.. that was my blue spring, he was supposed to return it :P it's all good though i have a firm spring in my fork right now.

contemplating going back to the red... or just pushing myself to ride harder so the firm feels soft :p
 

drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
I did them both at the same time yes, I'd say that with more attention to cleaning the forks than normal the oil should last just as long.

But the advantage with it is- if i find it messing me about I can fire the oil seals back in and it'll be grand!

Craig
cool. i always wipe the forks down after the ride, and never ride in mud, so i think ill give it a try.


i bought enduro seals, and from what i read (mainly from 40 owners), they have a lot of stiction, so one less seal should help aside from assloads of slick honey :rofl:

thanks for the tips. appreciate it. ill take some pics when i disassemble the shimstack and drill the damper, so i can share with others.


btw, what's your weight, spring in the front, and sag just out of pure curiosity?
 

drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
haha nice.. that was my blue spring, he was supposed to return it :P it's all good though i have a firm spring in my fork right now.

contemplating going back to the red... or just pushing myself to ride harder so the firm feels soft :p

if you're contemplating going back to the red, ill hold off on taking u up on ur offer for a while until you're sure. if you decide you want to let your red go, lmk and ill spot you lunch or some $. :thumb:


what's your weight and sag, and how's the firm feel?

thinking if i run the firm for the time being (which i may want to run regardless), ill do all i can to plushen up the LS compliance...mod the damper, remove the oil seals, and play with removing shims, or replacing them w/ smaller ones.. all should help w/ lsc characteristics, but keep the firm spring to limit brake dive and cushion on bigger hits, versus the red.

just my theory, while i sit and speculate on things w/ 2 hurt hands. :rofl::p


where you ride at these days? we should link up and ride. san ramon's like 15min away.
 

ustemuf

Monkey
Apr 8, 2010
198
15
Bay Area
if you're contemplating going back to the red, ill hold off on taking u up on ur offer for a while until you're sure. if you decide you want to let your red go, lmk and ill spot you lunch or some $. :thumb:


what's your weight and sag, and how's the firm feel?

thinking if i run the firm for the time being (which i may want to run regardless), ill do all i can to plushen up the LS compliance...mod the damper, remove the oil seals, and play with removing shims, or replacing them w/ smaller ones.. all should help w/ lsc characteristics, but keep the firm spring to limit brake dive and cushion on bigger hits, versus the red.

just my theory, while i sit and speculate on things w/ 2 hurt hands. :rofl::p


where you ride at these days? we should link up and ride. san ramon's like 15min away.
i have two red springs, no worries there. weigh 170lbs no gear, i have 20% sag up front with the firm spring and like 2 clicks of LSC and 4 of HSC.

the firm feels really stiff, but i rode it at northstar last weekend and it did pretty well. you have to work harder to make it feel good, but it let me roll through the rocky stuff easier.

ive just been riding northstar.. when that closes, i'll be at carlmont for the wniter.
 

drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
opened up the shimstack.
more shimz than expected.



trying to decide whether to drill a hole first or remove a shim first (reversible if dont like)...whichever has the smallest effect.
looks like removing the largest shim will have the largest effect on damper changes. the large shim covered the 3 oiling holes prior (see pic in prev post), and w/ it removed, the 3 holes are exposed.



only tricky part is going to be trying to perfectly align the black pointy sleeve onto the pin in the shimstack so that the compression clickers work as they attend to.
 
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JimLad

Monkey
Sep 23, 2009
101
2
Whistler
Maybe TF tuned remove the oil seals. Not sure how often I'll have to rebuild the forks without them, I guess it will let more muck into the lowers.
 

drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
so i decided to drill the shimstack, per craig's suggestion.

w/ the compression clickers all the way open



all the way closed.




if you flip the shimstack upside down, you will see tiny circle imprints molded into the plastic next to the pre-existing 3 outer holes. just drill on one.


assembling the shimstack back together and back into the damper is tricky.
using a vice clamp to hold the damper while you try to align the silver piece into the black tab that goes into the compression rod works best. other wise it's going to be trial and error to align everything correctly, and your compression clickers may not work.

ill use this and the removed oil seal for now to see how the fork performs. ill play with fork springs to get it closer to where i want.

once i have that figured out, ill try to dial the damper in by playing with shims.


spec'd the shims:

largest shim:
.15mm thick, 21.34mm diameter, 6.10mm inner diameter

medium shim (2):
15.85mm diameter

smaller shim:
13.90mm

there are 2 outter shims, very tiny. did not measure those, as they are more so intended as spacers, imo.


any leads on where i can order shims?
 
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drastic.

Monkey
May 16, 2011
145
0
pleasanton, ca
damn you enduro seals.

just received my order from UC for enduro 35mm seals and slick honey.

the package is labeled for the RS 35mm forks, but the seals inside were for 32mm. typical, and just my luck.

/rant
 

CraigRea

Chimp
Aug 25, 2011
9
0
Don't forget to completely cover the inside of the seal with whatever grease you are using, espcecially with enduro selas being so tight, if any dirt were to get inbetween them you'd get some nice scores on your stanchions...
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
I'd personally avoid using Enduro seals. The seals themselves are too harsh on the anodizing on the stanchions themselves since they are made up of more plastic rather than rubber compared to (Traditional Seals). Not only that the tolerances are a lot tighter and less forgiving since there is theoretically 1 seal instead of both oil and dust seals. Ive seen too many worn out stanchions because of this. Stock RS seals work 100%. Just make sure you lube/ clean the seals and you'll be a happy camper :thumb: