I don't understand all that btc%ing about dished hubs. If you're really having that many issues with wheel build longevity, you're doing something wrong ...
9T micro drive hub by Canfield Brothers
- Thread starter gollub01
- Start date
My rear 135 QR with one of our rims, the spokes come out to 291 and 292 so I used 292 for both drive and disk sides. (Nimble 9 29er)
So maybe the cranks feel longer bc when you look down the chainring is smaller. Just like how your hand might look bigger the smaller your.... Um... handlebars...
The hubs are now available from Canfield (see their website to order), but they aren't listing 135x10 so I'm awaiting a reply to an email to find out about the size I need.
Mathematically, the difference in crank arm feel is due to 2 main factors:
(1) less teeth on smaller chainring means your pulling less chain links per pedal stroke
(2) the resistance you're effectively pedalling against will produce a higher counteracting torque on the chainset with a bigger chainring
My only major concern with durability of the 9t hubs is that the smallest 3 cogs only interface with the splined freewheel on the top edge of the 3rd which makes me think that edge will chew off the freewheel - I don't understand why they didn't put some splines on the narrower part of the freewheel to spread the load.
I'm really looking forward to having 9t available on all my bikes.
For those of you who only want 5 or 6 gears, then simply cut the other cogs off the rear cassette, and position the rear mech's limiting screw appropriately - easy! ... alternatively go single speed on the rear and get a Hammerschmidt up front for 2x1
Canfield seems to be first to market with 9t hubs, so I don't understand why some of you are going on about Hope, DT & Spesh versions as none of those have made it to production yet - they all seem to be dragging their feet!
Hat off to Canfield for getting this made and available.
Mathematically, the difference in crank arm feel is due to 2 main factors:
(1) less teeth on smaller chainring means your pulling less chain links per pedal stroke
(2) the resistance you're effectively pedalling against will produce a higher counteracting torque on the chainset with a bigger chainring
My only major concern with durability of the 9t hubs is that the smallest 3 cogs only interface with the splined freewheel on the top edge of the 3rd which makes me think that edge will chew off the freewheel - I don't understand why they didn't put some splines on the narrower part of the freewheel to spread the load.
I'm really looking forward to having 9t available on all my bikes.
- 1x10 9-28t for DH/freeride
- 1x10 9-23t for DH race
- 2x10 9-36t with 24.36t for XC/AM
- 1x10 9-36t with 30 or 32t for AM/Enduro race
For those of you who only want 5 or 6 gears, then simply cut the other cogs off the rear cassette, and position the rear mech's limiting screw appropriately - easy! ... alternatively go single speed on the rear and get a Hammerschmidt up front for 2x1
Canfield seems to be first to market with 9t hubs, so I don't understand why some of you are going on about Hope, DT & Spesh versions as none of those have made it to production yet - they all seem to be dragging their feet!
Hat off to Canfield for getting this made and available.
yeah, it's been forever...
135x10 capreo's have been out in the wild for a while (for recumbent / trike / folding bike applications). just a bit of work to find them. these (on ebay) are 24h, but i've seen 32's.
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Hope's never been fast with new parts release. What about their pedals or crank?
As far as the wear on a 9T cog, I thought I remembered there being an engineering rule of thumb not to use less than 11 teeth on cogs. I looked it up in the Shigley book (for those that don't know, that's Mechanical Engineering in a book), and it depends on the rotational speed, but for "low speed" applications, they recommend at least 12 teeth. The reason being accelerated "chordal action" with less teeth- as the cog rotates at a constant speed, the chain linear speed goes up and down, increasing vibration and wear.
That's not to say that a 9T cog will spontaneously combust when put on a bike, but it does explain why BMX guys notice much faster wear with them.
Personally, I'll stay away from the 9T. But, if somebody does make a hub with wider flanges that only fits a 6 speed, I'd be interested in that (and probably use 11-25 gearing, or something)
That's not to say that a 9T cog will spontaneously combust when put on a bike, but it does explain why BMX guys notice much faster wear with them.
Personally, I'll stay away from the 9T. But, if somebody does make a hub with wider flanges that only fits a 6 speed, I'd be interested in that (and probably use 11-25 gearing, or something)
I think 9T will be good for the chain companies!
Yeah but most of them also use super crappy halflinks.
half link chains have improved a lot. i still don't think their on par with normal link chains tho
edit: most bmx'ers i personally know don't use half link chains, because they cost more and aren't as good.
Good point about not using smaller than 12t in normal applications however if we followed all the rules, compromise wouldnt give us the ability to slightly tweak/tune a variable. In this case using a 9-34t trail bike setup would eliminate a front derailleur and would allow the use of a chain device with a good spread of gears without the extra drag caused by a HS.
IMO a front derailleur is more of a compromise than a 9t driver, especially if it gets used sparingly in a normal trail ride; most likely with higher rotational speeds with less torque. Wear is never really an issue with 11t cog due to the fact most people spend more time mid block.. A 9th is not going to be much different..
Reading between the lines the comment about cranks feeling longer was most likely to using the 9t system in conjunction with the crampon peoples with a super low profile effectively increasing the crank length (in certain quadrants of the pedal stroke)
Does anyone know if these will fit on a 2011/2012 Demo 8? I know some hubs have problems, but the DT Swiss one obviously worked, so would just be a case of end caps.
If you're trying to be funny then I assume you aren't aware that a number of hubs don't fit on the new shape demos, and hence my question was a fair one. Don't want to be grinding hubs down like my buddy had to do with his Hadley.
My brother worked for Spec and I have some friends that still do. They make a good bike but are not so nice to the employees.
That being said Specialized likes to make proprietary parts so other components will not work. Odd sized shocks mounting hardware.
If a standard 12x150 hum fits then you should not have an issue.
Also they like to dish there wheels off center of the rear swing arm but in line with the BB because they claim it makes a better rear end. That's why so many people have issues with the rear wheels.
But that's my take on Specialized.
Please stop talking from your ass and read his comment again. Some 150mm hubs don't fit. Don't know what you call standard but if you lurk enough you will find people with problems. Unfortunately with the demo spec also apparently didn't test the frame with a lot different parts than the team used hence the problems with hubs, shocks and forks not fitting/working with the frame.
You need to chill out. I understand the issue's with the newer Demo's.
Specialized does this so you have to run what they want.
This thread is about the Canfield 9 tooth cog.
Your Canfield Distributor can help figure out if it will fit on the newer Demo's.
I hope it fit's.
If I can get a hub from Chris I can see if one of my friends will let me put it in the rear end of the new Demo and take some pic's for you.
That all
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One reason to run a 9t is so you can use a smaller front chainring for more clearance (and, I suppose, slightly lighter weight), without really changing your gear ratios. You get similar gears with less teeth all around. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, look up a gear chart and learn about "gear inches". And for kicks, look up Suntour's old Microdrive parts - same concept from the early 90's.)
And of course, if you're not using your tallest gears you might consider a smaller front chainring anyway.
That. A 32T up front with a 32T specific bash means much more clearance. Very good for the my bb is too low for our eastcore rokz crowd.
But in the Eastrokz Core zone, none of us needs that high of a gear for a rocky hill with 800 feet of (claimed) vert. You need a dropper post for some of these rock gardens.
I do understand the added clearance (the only reason why this would be really beneficial), the question everyone is discussing is wear on chains form the 9T cog. I think that maybe 5% of actual pedal time should be spent at either end of the cassette. Otherwise the gearing is to light or heavy. I run 9spd on my trail bike and spend most time in the 4-6 gears which leaves me rum to go lower for climbs and faster for dh.
For my dh bike it pretty much the same deal but i run 7spd and a lower and closer ratio and rarely have to resort to the last gear for anything besides fireroads. Which leads me to believe that i would not notice any accelerated wear on any of my bikes from a 9T cog because i would not use it all that much but i could have better drive ring clearance which so far have not been a issue.
Plus i dont think we can go much lower in bb height to take advantage of the added clearance because then there will be problems with crank clearance and i like to be able to pedal over even some rough terrain rather than having to coast because otherwise i will bang my pedals constantly.
Than use an even smaller front ring than 32T and have even more clearance?
do they make DH cranks nowadays that go below 32T?
the X0 DH with removable spider can run 28 or 30T offset rings from MRP.
Yeah...
I have been runing the micro hub and chain guide for 2 months. The range kicks ass and clearance is so sick!
I am running a 9-27 cassette for now, 172 grams(top 3 gears are TI from a dura-ace)
Interesting...
I've been keeping an eye on the Micro-Drive for a while.
Supra - other than the cogs from a Ti Dura-Ace cassette where did you source the rest of the cassette from - specifically the top gear cogs that thread on to the end of the hub?
I've been keeping an eye on the Micro-Drive for a while.
Supra - other than the cogs from a Ti Dura-Ace cassette where did you source the rest of the cassette from - specifically the top gear cogs that thread on to the end of the hub?
Really? Because I am good friends with a few, and know quite a few others, and none of them are anything less then extremely excited about bikes, the bikes they sell, and their company, and their jobs... Like literally every one of them is as excited as it gets about working for specialized. Interesting bash on the company.
Well I had to use two cassettes do do that. The hub will require a Shimano Capreo cassette for those first couple of gears you mention on the end. Specifically, 9,10,11,13 will be required to use Capreo gears due to the fact they interlock and work together for those gears. After that the spacing worked out for me use 15,18,21,24,27 from my Dura-Ace. I have only tested this in 9 speed config with 9 speed Shimano gears at this time.
Most will not have to do this I only did this because I worry about grams too much. If you just buy a Shimano Capreo cassette complete 9-26 it is just as good just little heavier about 242 grams total vs. 172.
For my 2012 One I will be running 9-36 with a 28 front ring. That should be plenty of range for my AM/FR bike. I have looked into the new XTR cassette and it looks top 5 gears could be used for more range than a Dura-Ace cassette. I will post that setup if it works in the next couple months.
i want this setup but with a hub that doesn't weight 400g. also - do you know how many engagement points the bros hub has?
The hubs are lighter now than my DH hub is due to a few updates. You save grams in other areas by dropping dual chainrings, front derailleur, shifter, cable and cable housing. Depending on gearing setup you might have a shorter chain, it all adds up.
This set up is great if you want more clearance and you want to drop the front d on your am or xc bike.
3 Pawls, 30 points so every 12 degrees engagement.
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yea i'm already running 1x10 with a 30t up front and 11-36 on a 240s hub for my trail bike. i want the smaller front and rear cogs but don't want to add the weight. admittedly it's probably more of the principal than anything, but a $300 135mm hub built for trail riding shouldn't have to weight 400g.