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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,301
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Consumer Reports on diminishing returns, the backwardness of our mpg system vs. Europe's "gpm" (liters/100 km) system, or "how Cash for Clunkers perhaps wasn't such a bad idea after all":

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/08/buyers-are-trading-toyota-priuses-for-chevrolet-volts-heres-what-would-make-a-bigger-difference.html

In our tests, the Prius gets 44 mpg overall, and after a lot of number crunching we have calculated that Volt owners will be getting the equivalent of 58 mpg (counting electric energy, and assuming 70 percent electric driving). At that rate, in the course of 12,000 miles, roughly a year’s use, a typical Volt will use about 66 fewer gallons than a Prius.
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What if GM pickup buyers switched en masse to [GM's] hybrid [pickup truck]? In a year, each [19 mpg] hybrid Silverado would save almost 226 gallons over a traditional [14 mpg] truck.
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The same principle of diminishing returns holds true even when we use more realistic examples. Switching, say, from a 30-mpg Honda Civic to a 44-mpg Prius saves 127 gallons per year. That’s great, but still 99 fewer than the 226 realized from goosing a gas guzzler from 14 to 19 mpg.
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Update: President Obama announces fuel-economy standards for big trucks (as in medium and heavy duty trucks), directly relevant to the above: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/08/new-fuel-economy-standards-for-big-rigs-fire-engines-and-work-trucks.html
 
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W

Whoops

Turbo Monkey
Jul 9, 2006
1,011
0
New Zealand
re; top gear... they are the ultimate trolls when it comes to BEV, but these fundamental points;

"1) Electric cars are still very expensive.

2) The recharging infrastructure is patchy.

3) The range readout varies enormously, unlike the information given by a petrol gauge.

4) The Leaf is a very good car per se, and there’s nothing wrong with electric motors, but the battery, in our view, remains the Achilles’ heel of the whole package."

... can't really be argued with.
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,301
7,735
While I still greatly dig ohio's BRD RedShift creation, I have to admit that something like this BMW Concept e scooter, should it ever come to production, might be the more practical commuting choice:



100 km range, regenerative braking, 3 hour recharge time, and the capability for "safe overtaking on urban motorways when carrying a passenger", whatever that means.

More here: http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/bmw-concept-e/
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,301
7,735


Powered by poop. No, really.

"Toto Toilet Bike Neo." http://www.spoon-tamago.com/2011/09/30/toto-toilet-motorcycle-neo-biogas/

Hold on to your butts everyone! That’s right. Japan’s number one toilet maker TOTO has created a toilet-motorcycle hybrid vehicle that runs entirely on biogas (read: human waste). Theoretically, as long as the driver continues to eat and drink, the motorcycle could run forever!
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For even more weirdness, note that "tamago" means egg, so this particular blog's domain name means "spoon-egg".
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,301
7,735
The Tesla Model S Beta has been launched, so hopefully the final production car will prove to be other than the vaporware that's sadly all too prevalent in this thread. http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/06/tesla-model-s-test-ride-and-factory-tour-video/

Kind of want, in as much as I want any car at the moment. (I'm planning on going carless again for at least the first year when I move back to Seattle.) The looks are good, less comical than the Fisker Karma, the huge LCDs that comprise the dash and center stack are nice in theory even if probably horrible in practice due to glare and lack of tactile feedback, and the car certainly whooshes up to 100+ mph with no drama and very little noise quite nicely in the video at the link above…











 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
looks like VW approved the VL-1 for production starting in 2013...lets see if it still stay all carbon fiber and actually performs the way they said it would.
article on the car:
http://www.motortrend.com/future/concept_vehicles/1101_volkswagen_xl1/viewall.html


http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111029/ANE/111029881/1193
Production plans for the ultra-fuel-efficient XL1 two-seater are proceeding. Said Winterkorn: "We will start small series production by 2013 – in Germany." Company sources told ANE the car will be produced in either Dresden or Wolfsburg.
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Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,301
7,735

Capsule Review: Nissan Leaf Nismo RC | The Truth About Cars



I was chauffeured around Nissan’s Oppama test track by Tsuigo Matsuda, who also had attempted to scare me in a GT-R. This time, the experience was electro-visceral: The immediate torque of the transmission-less racer slams you into the bucket seats as if a giant fist hits you. There is something else: The lack of roar. The motors emit an infernal high-pitched whine, but it is never loud enough to drown out an intercom-less chat with the driver as he manhandles that car through the turns. You can even hear the gravel being catapulted by the tires into the carbon fiber.

...


Walking behind the shed, I see the Leaf Nismo on a quickcharger, connected by four humongous hoses. “Wow, that’s cabling for serious amps,” says I. “Those are airconditioner hoses,” explain the techs. They are used to cool the midship inverter, positioned right behind the seats.
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dan-o

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
I wonder if the german zipcar drivers are as clueless as most of those here in the US.
Almost without fail, the car floating along in the fast lane or generally driving in a clueless manner has zipcar decals on it.
While driving around metro boston has a certain Deathmatch quality, I'm always surprised how inexperienced zipcar drivers appear to be.
I half expect to find them spun out on wet off-ramps at every turn. ;)
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,301
7,735
It makes sense that Boston Zipcar drivers would be inexperienced. Many of them are likely college students who otherwise don't drive.

In other news, Honda has come up with the best use yet for their IMA Hybrid technology, which otherwise sucks in cars:

Honda Power Equipment - HS1336IAS



Yep, that's a hybrid snowblower. $8k, but the non-hybrid Hondas with tracks like that aren't cheap, either.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Alternative transportation news: The American Petroleum Institute buys green car of the year award for a somewhat conventional ICE design which overall may actually be dirtier than the mainstream gasoline fuel version and cost $12000 extra (that is $2000 more than the hybrid version - both the standard and hybrid models are PZEV BTW). Natural gas cars are nothing special or innovative (various brands have built models since the 1980s) so it can't be any clearer, this award was brought you by America's Oil and Gas:p

2012 Green Car of the Year is the Honda Civic Natural Gas

Related news, first independent study to evaluate the impact of natural gas obtained via fracking which will likely be the source for this "green" car:

Cornell Chronicle: Fracking's natural gas may be 'dirtier' than coal

The take-home message of our study is that if you do an integration of 20 years following the development of the gas, shale gas is worse than conventional gas and is, in fact, worse than coal and worse than oil," Howarth said. "We are not advocating for more coal or oil, but rather to move to a truly green, renewable future as quickly as possible. We need to look at the true environmental consequences of shale gas.
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IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
wow, shocking :rolleyes:
Just over a month ago, Aptera was promising rebirth with Aptera 2.0. The promise will not be kept. Today, the company announced it is closing its doors, effective immediately.

In an email to supporters, president and CEO Paul Wilbur wrote, "We are out of resources." His letter (available in full after the jump) reveals many details about the behind-the-scenes at the EV start-up, including DOE discussions about development of a plug-in Camry-like sedan. The company was talking to the DOE because it was asking for an ATVM (Advance Technology Vehicle Manufacturing) loan. Aptera was recently given a Conditional Commitment Letter for a $150 million loan but could not find the required matching funds to actually collect the money, even though the company was still raising money this summer.
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Aptera pulls the plug
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
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VT
IH8Rice said:
seems like a legit thing to do :rolleyes:
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Not uncommon, most prototype cars are destroyed after the program concludes (see Chrysler turbine car, GM EV1, Toyota RAV4 EV, etc). A few occasionally escape (museums or collectors) that fate but most are destroyed.
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
syadasti said:
Not uncommon, most prototype cars are destroyed after the program concludes (see Chrysler turbine car, GM EV1, Toyota RAV4 EV, etc). A few occasionally escape (museums or collectors) that fate but most are destroyed.
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sure its not uncommon for a mfg to do that but what isnt common is disgruntled employees half assing their destruction and leaving the parts in the dumpster.
there are also more then half of the original production Rav 4EV's still on the road
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
IH8Rice said:
there are also more then half of the original production Rav 4EV's still on the road
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They intended to destroy them until enough people complained:

Like other manufacturers, Toyota began destroying RAV4 EVs as they came off lease, after lease continuances were denied to owners. In 2005 an agreement was struck between Toyota and DontCrush.com (now PlugInAmerica.com) to stop the destruction and facilitate the continued operation of owned and leased vehicles.
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IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
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Im over here now
finally, a diesel plug-in hybrid!



Volvo is laying claim to the first production diesel plug-in hybrid title with the company's new V60. The vehicle makes use of a five-cylinder 2.4-liter turbo diesel engine with 215 horsepower and 325 pound-feet of torque coupled to a six-speed automatic transmission as well as an electric motor good for up to 70 horsepower and 147 pound-feet of torque. The forced-induction internal combustion engine puts power to the front wheels while the electric motor feeds its grunt to the rear. An 11.2-kWh lithium-ion battery pack fields power storage duties, and Volvo says the V60 plug-in diesel hybrid can travel up to 32 miles on all-electric power with a single charge.

As with most plug-ins, charge times vary depending on the available current, but Volvo claims the V60 can top off its cells in as little as 3.5 hours on a 16-amp line. Interestingly enough, the vehicle allows the driver to chose between three drive modes. Pure mode relies on the electric motor as much as possible while Hybrid mode splits the difference between the diesel mill and the electric motor. Finally, Power mode calls on the full 285 horsepower and 362 pound-feet of torque for the most driving enjoyment. Volvo says the V60 diesel plug-in hybrid can kick up to 60 mph in 6.2 seconds in Power mode.
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http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/13/volvo-introduces-production-v60-diesel-plug-in-hybrid/
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
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its nice to see some positive news about the TPK


The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection announced Wednesday a $1 million grant award to help develop electric vehicle infrastructure on the Pennsylvania Turnpike. The grant recipient, Car Charging Group LLC, will install charging stations at 17 Turnpike service plazas.

“Pennsylvania has been -- and will continue to be -- a nationwide leader on energy issues in all sectors,” DEP Secretary Mike Krancer said...


Level II charging stations, which can charge a car in roughly four hours, and Level III charging stations, which can charge a car in about 20 minutes, will be installed at the service plazas in three phases.

The first phase of the work will be incorporated into ongoing service-plaza renovations between Harrisburg and New Jersey. Later phases will involve service plazas between Harrisburg and Ohio, and then along the Northeastern Extension. The project is expected to be completed by June 30, 2013.

The Turnpike Commission has also committed up to $500,000 in electric upgrades at the plazas to provide the charging stations with the necessary voltage.
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http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-1-million-grant-for-17-electric-car-chargers-on-pa-turnpike-20111214,0,5887313.story
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
syadasti said:
Peugeot did first diesel electric drivetrain:
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lulz. i knew youd say that so i purposely left it out of the context i posted

it's worth recalling that Peugeot was the first automaker to bring a production diesel hybrid to market, but the fact that the new V60 can plug in to charge its cells earns Volvo a spot in the pantheon of green firsts. For now, the model is only slated for European dealerships. Hit the jump to check out the full press release.
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http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/13/volvo-introduces-production-v60-diesel-plug-in-hybrid/
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
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diesels ftw
"Clean diesel" cars are cheaper, more readily available and more accepted in the market than hybrids or electric cars, according to a white piper published by former Secretary of Transportation, Norman Mineta....

In the paper, Mineta throws a roundhouse kick at the Fed's current policies toward increasing cars' fuel efficency and reducing emissions. "Our policy leaders appear smitten with finding a silver bullet that magically solves all of our problems and the focus is currently electric vehicles and electric technology," concludes the paper. "Instead of prescribing technology solutions that the market does not support, federal automotive policy should be geared toward achieving efficiency and emissions results." He paper continues, quoting diesel's edge over electric cars in cost per efficiency achieved:

High efficiency ICE vehicles could achieve a remarkably higher effect on the environment than other competing technologies," the paper continues. "The average additional cost for a high efficiency ICE is about $2,000, against $8,000 for an electric vehicle. Diesels continue to demonstrate the ability to meet consumer needs without being cost prohibitive.
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The argument seems to be that, for the average American driver, diesel can offer equivalent fuel economy to hybrids at a much lower cost than hybrids. Fully-electric vehicles aren't yet applicable to the driving habits of most people.

"Switching from a gasoline engine to an advanced diesel engine will improve fuel economy up to 30 percent and reduce GHG emissions as much as 25 percent, at an additional cost of $1,500 - $2,000 per vehicle."

And the paper acknowledges the visceral appeal of oil burners, "Diesel engines feature strong low-end torque and great acceleration making them fun to drive. The low-end torque also makes diesel engines the ideal powertrain for pick-up trucks which account for a large segment of the American market. The fuel savings of a switch from gasoline to diesel can also be significant for pickup trucks and full size SUVs where fuel efficiency is particularly low."

"Consumer preference for diesel versus hybrids can be attributed to the ‘fun-to-drive' nature and lower purchase price of diesels."
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http://jalopnik.com/5857979/diesels-make-more-sense-than-hybrids-says-ex+transportation-secretary
 
Toshi

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,301
7,735
IH8Rice said:
diesels ftw

http://jalopnik.com/5857979/diesels-make-more-sense-than-hybrids-says-ex+transportation-secretary
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Here's the white paper itself: http://www.cleandieseldelivers.com/upload/CleanDieselDelivers_White_Paper.pdf

1) Sponsored by the US Coalition for Advanced Diesel Cars. Enough said there.

2) Not a single mention of smog-forming emissions in my quick glance through it.

3) Even with the current power generation mix BEVs trump diesels in CO2 emissions (and are in turn trumped by next-gen HEVs):



If one lives in a region with pre-existing clean power (e.g. Vermont and nuclear or Washington State and hydroelectric), builds up his own solar/wind array, or purchases "green" power via offsets then the equation tips dramatically in favor of BEVs.
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Amongst Ford's numerous powertrain choices for the 2013 Ford Fusion is the the 2013 Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid, a vehicle that may actually be the world's most fuel efficient car. WIth an anticipated EPA mileage of more than 100 MPGe it will be more efficient than the Volt and potentially even the Prius plug-in hybrid. It also looks like a real car.
The Fusion Energi is essentially a plug-in version of the new Fusion Hybrid. The Energi also uses the same 2.0-liter Atksinson-cycle four-cylinder engine, but this time there's a larger battery pack on the option to fill it up with juice from your home outlet. So far Ford appears to be mum on exactly how large that battery pack is, or how far the vehicle will go on pure electricity, but an MPGe of more than 100 implies it'll be more than just a few miles.

*The only production vehicle that performs better is the Nissan Leaf (106 MPGe), which for most people would be a novelty item and not a car. Ford's calling it the "world's most efficient mid-size sedan" to be safe, but given it looks and performs just like a regular vehicle it can safely be called the world's most efficient car... any current car buyer could operate as their sole vehicle.
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