Alloy or brass nipples?

IH8Rice · Dec 7, 2011

youll be cursing that bling when you have problems with your nipples.

Racebike · Dec 7, 2011

You can build a good set of wheels with alu-nipples.

But for gravity assisted riding where dents and dings cause the wheels to come out of true and releasing spoke tension here and there they are not the best.

You can't wrestle a slightly bent rim into submission with alu. as well as you can with brass.

Freeridin' · Dec 7, 2011

Stan's rims don't have eyelets which could potential create even more problems with alu nipples.

BrokenSpoke · Dec 8, 2011

Brass, always brass. I will refuse building any wheel with anything else then brass.

sanjuro · Dec 8, 2011

Brass. I rather go with few spokes than alu nipples

Westy · Dec 8, 2011

I've built several sets of wheels. Some came out fantastic, some didn't. I always used Alu nipples, of all the problems I have encountered I have never had a 'nipple' problem. What is the advantage with brass, or what is the problem with Alu?

Beef Supreme · Dec 8, 2011

Westy said:
I've built several sets of wheels. Some came out fantastic, some didn't. I always used Alu nipples, of all the problems I have encountered I have never had a 'nipple' problem. What is the advantage with brass, or what is the problem with Alu?

The biggest problem is that the heads shear off. Non-eyeleted rims can score the nipple and accelerate the process. The threads can strip as well but that is much less common in my experience.

HAB · Dec 8, 2011

Westy said:
I've built several sets of wheels. Some came out fantastic, some didn't. I always used Alu nipples, of all the problems I have encountered I have never had a 'nipple' problem. What is the advantage with brass, or what is the problem with Alu?

It's not that uncommon for them to fail at where they flare out to seat in the rim eyelet. Using 15g spokes actually helps quite a bit because the walls are a little thicker. Brass is a little stronger with a little bit of a weight penalty. They're also a bit harder so you're less likely to strip them but provided you're not a hamfisted moron that shouldn't matter. If I care enough about weight on a particular wheelset to use aluminum ones I'll use DT Supercomp spokes because 1) they're light too and 2) they're 15g at the nipple end. On all my gravity wheels I just use brass because I don't care enough about the weight to bother.

Westy · Dec 8, 2011

HAB said:
It's not that uncommon for them to fail at where they flare out to seat in the rim eyelet. Using 15g spokes actually helps quite a bit because the walls are a little thicker. Brass is a little stronger with a little bit of a weight penalty. They're also a bit harder so you're less likely to strip them but provided you're not a hamfisted moron that shouldn't matter. If I care enough about weight on a particular wheelset to use aluminum ones I'll use DT Supercomp spokes because 1) they're light too and 2) they're 15g at the nipple end. On all my gravity wheels I just use brass because I don't care enough about the weight to bother.

Interesting. I have just never had one fail. Have even pulled chunks of rim out with perfectly intact nipples. Seems as though my nipples rule.

HAB · Dec 8, 2011

Never had any real issues to speak of on XC or road bikes but have on things that were taking a bit more abuse. Typically once one or two go a whole bunch do. Turns out thin walled aluminum parts with some substantial stress concentrations undergoing a lot of cyclic loading can and will break eventually. Who'd have thought?

sanjuro · Dec 9, 2011

I think you can build successfully with alu nipples. What happens 3 years from now after the 4th or 5th true?

ltr450rider · Dec 9, 2011

See if they can get the new 7075 alloy nips from Pace-Line in Arroyo Grande, CA. Harder alloy so harder to strip and harder for heads to break off, plus non-corrosive. I've built a few wheels including some for myself and they seem to be the way to go. Plus they have quite a few color options.

oldfart · Dec 19, 2011

Nothing wrong with aluminum nipples. I don't think they are as strong as brass but, if the wheel builder is good, they are strong enough. I always use aluminum for my good wheels. I always use a little locktite on the threads to seal them and keep them in place when I hit something hard enough to release the tension momentarily. I always use a spoke tension meter to ensure I build to optimum tension and even too.

With all due respect to your shop, if they refuse to build with aluminum nipples for anyone, maybe it is the shop that has the problem and not the parts.

SthFRider · Dec 31, 2011

brass hands down.

roel_koel · Jan 7, 2012

SthFRider said:
brass hands down.

^^

I used to build ALOT of wheels with Stans ZTR rims, and we never used alloy nips because they just caused too much trouble whilst building the wheels (inconsistent tension from the 'grabby' nipple / rim drilling interface), and 6 months later after a winter of salt on the icy roads and riding in muddy / wet conditions

this experience also led to us not building wheels for customers using Mavic or DT Swiss rims with alloy nips either, and we would regularly receive wheels into the workshop built elsewhere with alloy nips which would just cause problems for the experienced workshop staff, often requiring a complete rebuild with DT Swiss Comp spokes and brass nips

I have never found the minimal weight reduction of using alloy nips to be worth the hassle, compared to super reliable brass nips??

unfortunately in the UK, many of Specialized's mountain bikes come with fancy coloured alloy nips and at a former bike shop that was a big SBC dealer, we had ongoing issues with customers wheels on Rockhopper, Stumpjumpers, Enduros, etc with brass nips cracking / seizing and preventing wheel truing

I could see alloy nips perhaps working for a "pro-sumer" customer who understands the technical aspects, but not for average joe

oldfart · Jan 12, 2012

roel_koel said:
^^

I used to build ALOT of wheels with Stans ZTR rims, and we never used alloy nips because they just caused too much trouble whilst building the wheels (inconsistent tension from the 'grabby' nipple / rim drilling interface), and 6 months later after a winter of salt on the icy roads and riding in muddy / wet conditions

this experience also led to us not building wheels for customers using Mavic or DT Swiss rims with alloy nips either, and we would regularly receive wheels into the workshop built elsewhere with alloy nips which would just cause problems for the experienced workshop staff, often requiring a complete rebuild with DT Swiss Comp spokes and brass nips

I have never found the minimal weight reduction of using alloy nips to be worth the hassle, compared to super reliable brass nips??

unfortunately in the UK, many of Specialized's mountain bikes come with fancy coloured alloy nips and at a former bike shop that was a big SBC dealer, we had ongoing issues with customers wheels on Rockhopper, Stumpjumpers, Enduros, etc with brass nips cracking / seizing and preventing wheel truing

I could see alloy nips perhaps working for a "pro-sumer" customer who understands the technical aspects, but not for average joe

What type of spoke prep was used on the spoke threads? I think that makes a big difference. I had one pair of brand new wheels that came with a bike that used Stan's rims and alloy nipples. I don't think any spoke prep was used at all not even oil or grease. First test ride in the lane and the spokes were popping and pinging so I attempted to deal with that but the nipples were seized. Broke a number of spokes trying to even the tension but I eventually gave up and simply rebuilt them properly.

It doesn't matter whether one uses brass or alloy nipples, they need some sort of spoke prep. I prefer locktite but there are other things that work well too. Locktite is good because it seals the threads from the elements and holds the nipple from turning if you happen to ride hard enough to flex the rim enough to detention the spokes momentarily. Plus while still wet the locktite lubricates to ease the building process then dries later. I don't think using grease or oil is good enough as it can be washed away through use. Never had an issue with seized nipples alloy or brass in my 30 years of wheel building for wheels I built.

Factory wheels on the other hand can be brutal.

ltr450rider · Jan 13, 2012

I'm telling you, look at the 7075 Alloy nips that Pace-Line has, you will not be dissapointed!

oldfart · Jan 13, 2012

Also, do this little test. Get 32 spokes and put 32 brass nipple on them and another 32 spokes with 32 aluminum nipples. Put one bunch in each hand holding the j bend end and simply swing them. Notice a difference? If you don't brass are fine for you. If you notice the difference but don't think the weight savings matter to you, get brass nipples.

BikeMike · Jan 13, 2012

I thought the major argument against alloy nipples on no-eyelet Al rims was galling between the nipple and the rim. Whatever the nipple material (I prefer brass), grease the nipple-rim interface, eyelets in the rim or not. One way is to thread a nipple onto a spoke backwards, dip the nipple in grease (e.g. polylube), and apply it to the rim where the nipples will sit.

For the spoke/nipple interface I like linseed oil, but super heavy weight machine oil, antiseize, wheelsmith spoke prep, grease, and blue locktite all work. Contrary to oldfart's method, if using Locktite I apply it at the end of the build. Mostly because I don't want much locking action, but appreciate a bit and the keeping other stuff out (might have to reapply after a few adjustments though.)

rockofullr · Jan 13, 2012

BikeMike said:
wheelsmith spoke prep

This

I run alloy nipps on all my wheels. I true and tension my wheels every month or so and have never run into problems with the nipples. Of course I do make sure to lube up my nipples every time I have a wheel in the truing stand (yeah baby that's how I like it).

I think the key is: good build + good maintenance = no problems

oldfart · Jan 13, 2012

My method of applying locktite is to lace it all up and before I start to do up the nipples, I place a drop of locktite on the end of each nipple. I find that the locktite does not set that quickly and does lubricate the threads sufficiently to build. And I oil the nipple rim interface too. Other builders will apply the locktite to the spoke threads first by putting the spokes in a bunch and applying the locktite to whole bunch at one time. Kind of like dipping them all in Spoke Prep or linseed oil which work in a similar fashion, by drying up and gumming up the threads enough to seal them and keep them from rotating but enough to seize them.

Alloy or brass nipples?

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