i think the point everyone is/was trying to make is dont buy a RS product
Boxxer WC / WC Keronite
- Thread starter dhbrigade
- Start date
you mean the point 2 people were trying to make? I'm pretty sure 90% of this thread has been "RS is fine, stfu pspec" and 5% has been pspec not stfu'ing, and the other 5% are the other RS haters who blindly hate because they run fox/marzo/not RS. With 1 post or two by sandwich, with an actual legit gripe.
That's the summary!
haha thanks for considering me legit.
The difference in damping between 10 and 11 is that it works and the knobs are different. I haven't heard of any further internal changes. I find it doubtful the keronite has differences from the WC though...
The difference in damping between 10 and 11 is that it works and the knobs are different. I haven't heard of any further internal changes. I find it doubtful the keronite has differences from the WC though...
of the two people who actually had something to contribute besides making fun of pspec. yes
Uh I used to be a Marzocchi guy until I crossed over to RS in 2007.
I really love my Old Boxxers (which served me until now) which I now replaced for a 2011. And boy am I glad that I didn't get the Fox's.
From my point of view, Fox's are a maintenance nightmare, especially with ****ty support here in Slovenia (might be a courtesy of European distributor, dunno). I know that there have been some issues with early 2010's but the Boxxer is still pretty much the best fork on the market all things considered.
I read good stuff about Big M here, but I kinda don't trust then anymore.
I really love my Old Boxxers (which served me until now) which I now replaced for a 2011. And boy am I glad that I didn't get the Fox's.
From my point of view, Fox's are a maintenance nightmare, especially with ****ty support here in Slovenia (might be a courtesy of European distributor, dunno). I know that there have been some issues with early 2010's but the Boxxer is still pretty much the best fork on the market all things considered.
I read good stuff about Big M here, but I kinda don't trust then anymore.
Also in North America and 2 to 3 days is a pipe dream, weeks would still be barely accurate. That is with actual service on a Fox 40, a Van 36, and discussions on a float 150 service. You need to open your eyes man.
Turn around is about 2 hours to service a fox 40 in your garage.
From the bike industry standpoint Sram's customer service is awesome. All of the techs are super friendly and easy to talk to. For example: My Lyrik 2 step cartridge needed a new seal head. Sram sent me one for free. After a week I began to wonder if there was a mistake with the order. I called them and the package was placed on the wrong truck. They overnighted one out to me and let me keep the first order when it arrived a week later no questions asked and at absolutely zero cost to me. Granted I work at a shop but they hook us up all the time on stuff.
All of the drcv shocks that we have had that needed to be warrantied have taken 3 weeks to be processed by fox. And it's a stretch to get them covered under warranty. And I have a 2010 Boxxer WC with shim stack work that I have been riding for 2 years now with zero major issues. I need a new top out bumper and surprise, sram sent me one for free along with an entire rebuild kit. Yeah what a horrible company...
All of the drcv shocks that we have had that needed to be warrantied have taken 3 weeks to be processed by fox. And it's a stretch to get them covered under warranty. And I have a 2010 Boxxer WC with shim stack work that I have been riding for 2 years now with zero major issues. I need a new top out bumper and surprise, sram sent me one for free along with an entire rebuild kit. Yeah what a horrible company...
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Anyone with the 2011 WC Boxxer have issues with the compression damper as well? I wanted to dabble with another brand of fork other than Marzo, so dipped into the second hand market for a hardly used Boxxer.
The damper (and rebound) adjustments were pretty useless, so had the fork sent for a service. Received word today they replaced the compression assembly under warrantee. Contacted the original owner who now revealed he too had the same issue and had the compression assembly also replaced under warrantee.
Is this a generic issue with the 2011 WC boxxers? Anyone else having similar recurring issues?
The damper (and rebound) adjustments were pretty useless, so had the fork sent for a service. Received word today they replaced the compression assembly under warrantee. Contacted the original owner who now revealed he too had the same issue and had the compression assembly also replaced under warrantee.
Is this a generic issue with the 2011 WC boxxers? Anyone else having similar recurring issues?
My 2010 adjustments did little. My 2011 brand new fork never worked quite the way i wanted it to either. I just think they're bad forks, though others disagree. QC is lacking although customer service is excellent.
They do have a LOT of knobs though.
They do have a LOT of knobs though.
lots of knobs? in the engineering department or on the fork? 
Sandwich: did u do anything to improve your 2011 experience?
I'm brand new to the Boxxer world, but if this how my flower gets taken, then SRAMs using sand instead of lube. THis is a big change coming from the fit n forget world of marzocchi. I somehow doubt this is a totally generic issue, but if the comp assembly keeps crapping out, i'm gonna ditch this thing while the next the buyer still has recourse to warrantee.
Sandwich: did u do anything to improve your 2011 experience?
I'm brand new to the Boxxer world, but if this how my flower gets taken, then SRAMs using sand instead of lube. THis is a big change coming from the fit n forget world of marzocchi. I somehow doubt this is a totally generic issue, but if the comp assembly keeps crapping out, i'm gonna ditch this thing while the next the buyer still has recourse to warrantee.
hahah, no comment.
I didn't do anything to improve it, and please don't take my experience as the be all end all of customer experience with the boxxer fork. I had a rather bad experience with my 2010, which was an early model and had numerous teething issues. the rebound knobs did nothing, though compression did seem to do a little bit. Eventually the stiction got so bad that Rockshox replaced the entire fork under warranty, for free, through my local shop. It's likely that I am at least partially to blame for the performance of that fork. I used motor oil to lubricate it, and I'm not sure what grease I used under the seals but it probably didn't help either.
When I got the 2011, (these were both R2C2s or Team models) I rode it straight out of the box, then broke it down and re-lubed it with RS 15wt oil in the lowers and Judy butter under the seals...both RS brand parts. This time the rebound knobs did actually seem to work, but compression was still iffy. The fork constantly made a wheezey noise even after rebuild. The stiction of the 2010 model was gone completely. I eventually sold my bike as a complete with the fork attached after only 3-5 riding days. The fork never really got better, though I expected it to break in more. I never liked it more than "just OK", and while I'm not a super-tuner suspension geek, I think I can generally figure out what's going on enough to make me like my suspension better.
It's also entirely possible that the poor performance of the rear shock and the 2010 fork jaded my experience with the 2011, but I was just never fully satisfied with the way that it worked, and found myself wishing I had something like a marzocchi that I could just get on and ride, and it would absorb bumps and **** even if it weighed a little more. It's also possible that I was spoiled by the ride quality of the Avalanche components I had before Rock Shox, though I liked my 2008 Boxxer WC better than my 2010 or 2011. Maybe they're just too "racey" for me but I just never got along with it, and I've never felt a new boxxer that felt like I thought it really should.
I can't say to pitch the fork now, but I can say you'll probably either figure it out eventually, and get it tuned to your liking, or you'll sell it and not miss it.
I didn't do anything to improve it, and please don't take my experience as the be all end all of customer experience with the boxxer fork. I had a rather bad experience with my 2010, which was an early model and had numerous teething issues. the rebound knobs did nothing, though compression did seem to do a little bit. Eventually the stiction got so bad that Rockshox replaced the entire fork under warranty, for free, through my local shop. It's likely that I am at least partially to blame for the performance of that fork. I used motor oil to lubricate it, and I'm not sure what grease I used under the seals but it probably didn't help either.
When I got the 2011, (these were both R2C2s or Team models) I rode it straight out of the box, then broke it down and re-lubed it with RS 15wt oil in the lowers and Judy butter under the seals...both RS brand parts. This time the rebound knobs did actually seem to work, but compression was still iffy. The fork constantly made a wheezey noise even after rebuild. The stiction of the 2010 model was gone completely. I eventually sold my bike as a complete with the fork attached after only 3-5 riding days. The fork never really got better, though I expected it to break in more. I never liked it more than "just OK", and while I'm not a super-tuner suspension geek, I think I can generally figure out what's going on enough to make me like my suspension better.
It's also entirely possible that the poor performance of the rear shock and the 2010 fork jaded my experience with the 2011, but I was just never fully satisfied with the way that it worked, and found myself wishing I had something like a marzocchi that I could just get on and ride, and it would absorb bumps and **** even if it weighed a little more. It's also possible that I was spoiled by the ride quality of the Avalanche components I had before Rock Shox, though I liked my 2008 Boxxer WC better than my 2010 or 2011. Maybe they're just too "racey" for me but I just never got along with it, and I've never felt a new boxxer that felt like I thought it really should.
I can't say to pitch the fork now, but I can say you'll probably either figure it out eventually, and get it tuned to your liking, or you'll sell it and not miss it.
oi, sounds like a rough ride 
Thing is, I tend to wanna figure it out till i've figured it out. The limit though will be the time remaining on the warrantee (if i dont destroy the fork in the interim). So I'll wait till i can start playing with teh fork post-service after I get it from the shop tomorrow. But if i ditch it, I'm going back to Marzo, which for 2012 is pretty much on par weight wise with everything else out there. Functionally, it's right up there despite it's lack of knobs
Thanks for the feedback Sandwich. Much appreciated
Thing is, I tend to wanna figure it out till i've figured it out. The limit though will be the time remaining on the warrantee (if i dont destroy the fork in the interim). So I'll wait till i can start playing with teh fork post-service after I get it from the shop tomorrow. But if i ditch it, I'm going back to Marzo, which for 2012 is pretty much on par weight wise with everything else out there. Functionally, it's right up there despite it's lack of knobs
Thanks for the feedback Sandwich. Much appreciated
Yeah, you lose some adjustability with the Marz but you get a significant chunk of reliability and I'm not sure that you need a huge amount of adjustability once your "in the zone" so to speak.
I don't know how it is where you are, but at least in the us, I wouldn't worry about warranty period provided you have a good LBS. my fork was a second hand, two year old early model fork that was old and well used. They replaced the entire thing with a full retail product. I now have four springs and two crowns in my possession, along with a few spare drop stop bits as they didn't go back.
I do think I'd eventually have gotten it where I wanted it, but I like to get on my bike and ride, not twist knobs for every course. I now have a 66 and avy shock to play with and compare.
I don't know how it is where you are, but at least in the us, I wouldn't worry about warranty period provided you have a good LBS. my fork was a second hand, two year old early model fork that was old and well used. They replaced the entire thing with a full retail product. I now have four springs and two crowns in my possession, along with a few spare drop stop bits as they didn't go back.
I do think I'd eventually have gotten it where I wanted it, but I like to get on my bike and ride, not twist knobs for every course. I now have a 66 and avy shock to play with and compare.
Capricorn i had similar issues with my fork, 2010 wc, first year i had it the rebound and compression had a great range of ajustments and were reliable. Next season the compression failed(or i thought so), got a new cartridge from them because i lost most of the compression and the comp ajustments did nothing. Now the new cartridge is doing the same, very little low and high speed, just blows through the travel. I even swapped 7.5 then 10 weight into the damper to see if it changed anything. All it did was effect the rebound. I am at a loss to what is wrong other than trying a new cartridge.
You may just need to valve it a little firmer for your purposes.
Neither the 2010 or 2011 fork actually have loads of compression on tap... now if they were working fine (by your standards) and then started doing nothing, there might be something wrong with the cartridge. If you wind the LS and HS adjusters all the way in and out, do they hit stops as normal? Don't force - just to check that they aren't broken and continuously rotating. Could also be a myriad of other things like a stuck return valve too.
But if the damper actually doesn't have anything wrong with it, shimming the compression stack more firmly might bring you the results you're looking for. In stock guise, even with the adjusters cranked, there wasn't much in the way of compression damping, because the HS / stack just blows off and opens up way too easily. Valving the stack (significantly) firmer will probably bring the external adjusters to life, and give them a more useful range - that was my experience.
Neither the 2010 or 2011 fork actually have loads of compression on tap... now if they were working fine (by your standards) and then started doing nothing, there might be something wrong with the cartridge. If you wind the LS and HS adjusters all the way in and out, do they hit stops as normal? Don't force - just to check that they aren't broken and continuously rotating. Could also be a myriad of other things like a stuck return valve too.
But if the damper actually doesn't have anything wrong with it, shimming the compression stack more firmly might bring you the results you're looking for. In stock guise, even with the adjusters cranked, there wasn't much in the way of compression damping, because the HS / stack just blows off and opens up way too easily. Valving the stack (significantly) firmer will probably bring the external adjusters to life, and give them a more useful range - that was my experience.
am with sandwich here.
same experience with RS products.... buyers beware.
same experience with RS products.... buyers beware.
I'm really curious what has Christiaan done to my boxxer before selling it to me because I had none of the issues. The damping range was great and it seemed like it had much more LSC than my old 888 rc2x's. No reliability problems either. It lost damping once but it was my fault for bottoming it very hard after going off the track at full speed. It was an easy fix.
Any guide/starting points to that Udi? I've rebuilt my fork enough times to feel confident with the mechanical part, but I have no idea where to start with firming up the shimstack in terms of shims, and order of shims, and number of shims.
I just got a 2011 WC with a 2012 damper, and discovered that in order to run any compression, I need to have the HS and LS all the way closed, and its still not as much compression as my old 2010 team. Since I want to run the fork fairly linear, I don't really want to compensate by just making the air chamber as small as possible. I like the idea of the air spring, I like the feel of the new damper knobs, but I'm on the verge of either selling the WC, or yanking the compression leg from the team I have and installing it in the WC. If I could adjust the shimstack that'd be rad, I just don't know what does what.
Any starting points for experimentation? For reference, I'm not looking for compression for steve peat, on the newest 2012 fox 40's, I'm on the lighter side of the compression, I think about 4-5 clicks of LS, and 3-4 clicks of HS.
I just got a 2011 WC with a 2012 damper, and discovered that in order to run any compression, I need to have the HS and LS all the way closed, and its still not as much compression as my old 2010 team. Since I want to run the fork fairly linear, I don't really want to compensate by just making the air chamber as small as possible. I like the idea of the air spring, I like the feel of the new damper knobs, but I'm on the verge of either selling the WC, or yanking the compression leg from the team I have and installing it in the WC. If I could adjust the shimstack that'd be rad, I just don't know what does what.
Any starting points for experimentation? For reference, I'm not looking for compression for steve peat, on the newest 2012 fox 40's, I'm on the lighter side of the compression, I think about 4-5 clicks of LS, and 3-4 clicks of HS.
do you have a 2010 or newer norbar? My 2010 certainly doesn't lack compression, its just fairly tied to the rebound stack. If I run the rebound in the middle(ish) I get plenty of compression, and a reasonable range of adjustments? I just picked up a 2011 WC with a 2012 damper and that is severely lacking in compression.
Udi: that would be the next item on my boxxer to-do list: firming up the compression via the stack as I do prefer running a fairly stiff fork. Shim stack adjustment: is that a service all RS service agents are able to provide as a matter of course or? How did you have yours done, or rather, what was done to yours?
feedback: got the fork back, and the low speed compression adjuster now just turns without detente clicks. Perfect....
Still have to ride the thing which I'll do in a bit as I still have to set up the new vivid R2C.
feedback: got the fork back, and the low speed compression adjuster now just turns without detente clicks. Perfect....
Still have to ride the thing which I'll do in a bit as I still have to set up the new vivid R2C.It was a 2010. Now I'm running avy in it and the upgrade wasn't that noticable as the hype would let you belive.
all this hate...ive ridden all three major brands top end offerings and i'd rate them in this order.
marz. 888 evo ti(super supple and compliant, basically no arm pump from brake ruts)
boxxer(rides like **** compared to the 888, felt over damped)
40(felt super stiff, almost too stiff and was lacking in the chunder. granted it was on a rental but still)
marz. 888 evo ti(super supple and compliant, basically no arm pump from brake ruts)
boxxer(rides like **** compared to the 888, felt over damped)
40(felt super stiff, almost too stiff and was lacking in the chunder. granted it was on a rental but still)
Its quite interesting. How QQ process in US is totally different from EU.
Here I reckon that 50%> of my buddies who owned Fox 40 had some massive issues with them, like leaking oil like a menstruating 12yr old.
Marzocchi I used to be a fan of, but would have some serious doubt about now.
Of all the mass produced forx the Boxxer was the only consistently good to the scene (yes there were issues here and there, but not even close to horrors of Fox and Marzocchi).
But like I said, it seems its completely different in the Land of The Fat.
Here I reckon that 50%> of my buddies who owned Fox 40 had some massive issues with them, like leaking oil like a menstruating 12yr old.
Marzocchi I used to be a fan of, but would have some serious doubt about now.
Of all the mass produced forx the Boxxer was the only consistently good to the scene (yes there were issues here and there, but not even close to horrors of Fox and Marzocchi).
But like I said, it seems its completely different in the Land of The Fat.
It took me ages to find this (haven't owned a Boxxer in a while), but the exact before/after configs are here at post #32, and there is some more discussion below that: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237443&p=3542081&viewfull=1#post3542081
From what I remember, you basically have to slide up the black tube which is the spring-loaded HSC adjusting tube (back off the HSC first), and this will expose a small nut. You need to clamp the piston (with something soft, gently) while unscrewing this nut, it can be a bit tricky because you have to hold the HS adjuster tube up while doing it. I used the big side of a CCDB spanner, cut open (so it's an open not closed wrench) but if you have a thin spanner of the right size that's probably better.
You'll figure the rest out yourself easily enough I think, sorry I can't be more descriptive - it's been a while since I was in there and no longer have it. That was the only tricky part though.
I think most of those shims were taken from a standard blackbox speedstack (09 and earlier fork) so they're easy to find. If I were doing it again I'd go firmer, but that setup gave a decent amount of useful range compared to stock.
I usually do everything myself, details are above. You probably want to have a decent level of mechanical aptitude when pulling this damper apart, it's up to you whether you get someone else to valve it for you.
theres a guide on youtube on how get to the shimstack on the mission control dh unit.
Was worked on by a SRAM tech ,and was well maintained, nothing else
thanks udi, you're the man. I just need to source some shims to try it out, and I'll be good to go.
Or, it occurs to me, that if I take the compression damper that I like, I can just run a WC airspring with a damper I know I like, and somebody else can ride the new Boxxer R2C2.
Or, it occurs to me, that if I take the compression damper that I like, I can just run a WC airspring with a damper I know I like, and somebody else can ride the new Boxxer R2C2.
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Thanks Udi for the links and guidance. Followed up with RS agent to get me some shimz to muck around with as they stuffed up the service of my fork (LSC adjuster doesnt click).
Then either the SRAM guys did something special or people around here are really stupid because for the first 2 months people were coming to me because it was a suprise for everybody the boxxer worked so well.
btw. I don't follow. Have you test ridden your featherweight v10 yet?
I have a 2010 damper so you'll probably need to tweak this a bit for the 2011 if there is less compression damping from the rebound check valve. Comparing the 2010 and 2011 compression stacks in Shim Restackor, the 2011 stack is almost 20% softer at medium and high speed than the 2010, without even considering the effect of the rebound valve.
I modified the stock stack as follows:
20x0.1
20x0.1
20x0.1
20x0.1
18x0.1
14x0.1
20x0.15
20x0.1
20x0.1
20x0.1
20x0.1
16x0.15
14x0.15
10x0.4
This is significantly stiffer (especially at high-speed) than the 2010 stack. The damper was fantastic on natural steep terrain (Plattekill and Whiteface - no brake dive, great mid-stroke support, so-so small bump compliance but great control on rough landings) but after spending a weekend riding braking bumps at Highland my hands were completely destroyed. I decided to soften it up a bit and run more low-speed compression. This is where I ended up and it has worked out well for me at many mountains in the Northeast:
20x0.1
20x0.1
18x0.1
14x0.1
20x0.1
20x0.1
20x0.1
16x0.15
14x0.15
10x0.4
I weigh 175lbs with gear on and run this stack with only a few clicks of HS compression preload and 1.5-2 turns out on LS compression.
i spent this past weekend at Mountain Creek, with my 2010 Boxxer WC. This fork was serviced by RS and said to be good to go. Ive got almost no time on the fork so i ran it this weekend, My hands are WRECKED. Previously i was riding my totem solo air with Avy cart (which I like a lot). I also switched bikes for 1 run with a buddy this weekend, same sunday as me but with avy cart
now i need to decide whether to sell the WC and get a race + avy or just pop an avy in the WC and keep the solo air