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Is there really a need for this?

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
all the rich people that buy road bikes from us will blow their load over this.

arent shimano and sram both working on hydraulic brakes too?
 

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,860
4,154
Copenhagen, Denmark
Engineered by Germans - I am pretty sure the will be just fine. Much easier to route the break cable and hide the break on triathlon frames.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,558
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Engineered by Germans - I am pretty sure the will be just fine. Much easier to route the break cable and hide the break on triathlon frames.
The fact that they're made by germans is what worries me. I've seen forks and even a few frames permanently deformed outward from hs33's. Way too powerful.
 

James

Carbon Porn Star
Sep 11, 2001
3,559
0
Danbury, CT
so they've been announced....


hydraulic RIM brakes for road bikes... why? i foresee crushed carbon road rims in the future.
I'm sure that Magura tuned the brakes to give the proper amount of braking force, and didn't just turn it up to 11 to splinter wheels.

The fact that they're made by germans is what worries me. I've seen forks and even a few frames permanently deformed outward from hs33's. Way too powerful.
These brakes attach separately, they don't brace on the frame like the HS33s did, which attached to canti studs.

I'd kill for hydro discs on my road bike with carbon wheels. Might be the best "innovation" for road bikes in the past 10 years.
Just wait grasshopper...PR is going to be interesting I bet.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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These brakes attach separately, they don't brace on the frame like the HS33s did, which attached to canti studs.
my point was more that hydro rims are strong enough to deform forks and frames, they're going to be strong enough to shear off a single bolt that road bikes mount to.

yes, its a cool innovative product, but 2 problems:

1) its gonna be obsolete in the near future now that disc brakes are poised to enter the road market

2) magura's recent track record for new innovative products is far from stellar. even chainlove can't move their forks.
 

James

Carbon Porn Star
Sep 11, 2001
3,559
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Danbury, CT
my point was more that hydro rims are strong enough to deform forks and frames, they're going to be strong enough to shear off a single bolt that road bikes mount to.

yes, its a cool innovative product, but 2 problems:

1) its gonna be obsolete in the near future now that disc brakes are poised to enter the road market

2) magura's recent track record for new innovative products is far from stellar. even chainlove can't move their forks.
But that's not how road brakes work, when you squeeze the brake, no matter how hard, you're not putting that kind of stress on the bolt. Sure, there are forces from the slowing of the wheel that impact it, just like a cable brake, and at a certain point it'll lock the wheel, just like a cable-actuated brake, so there isn't any "more" braking power. It's just on a TT/Tri bike with super-funky routing, most brakes are kind of "suggestions." To bring the same power to those bikes as you would enjoy on a road bike is the point of these.

It's going to take a while before discs are everywhere. And hey, maybe this is a stepping point for them, a stopgap, and we're all on discs in 2 years.
But there are plenty of people with tri bikes now that I think would benefit from this brake as an upgrade to their current machine.

Forks and brakes are very different things though. Magura are brake people, I'd trust them, give them the chance.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
since this is only marketed towards a niche market in road bikes, im more anxious to see Shimano or Sram's take on disc brakes and integrating the brake and shift levers.
 

BikeMike

Monkey
Feb 24, 2006
784
0
The rim brake hydros make some sense if you absolutely must have terrible cable routing on a TT bike. Maybe also for the very small handed people who have trouble getting sufficient brake force.

Regarding discs...Avid didn't have the marketing power to make them popular enough all those years ago?
 

James

Carbon Porn Star
Sep 11, 2001
3,559
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Danbury, CT
The rim brake hydros make some sense if you absolutely must have terrible cable routing on a TT bike. Maybe also for the very small handed people who have trouble getting sufficient brake force.

Regarding discs...Avid didn't have the marketing power to make them popular enough all those years ago?
Discs weren't legal for UCI use three years ago, which is a giant part of it.
 
But that's not how road brakes work, when you squeeze the brake, no matter how hard, you're not putting that kind of stress on the bolt. Sure, there are forces from the slowing of the wheel that impact it, just like a cable brake, and at a certain point it'll lock the wheel, just like a cable-actuated brake, so there isn't any "more" braking power. It's just on a TT/Tri bike with super-funky routing, most brakes are kind of "suggestions." To bring the same power to those bikes as you would enjoy on a road bike is the point of these.

It's going to take a while before discs are everywhere. And hey, maybe this is a stepping point for them, a stopgap, and we're all on discs in 2 years.
But there are plenty of people with tri bikes now that I think would benefit from this brake as an upgrade to their current machine.

Forks and brakes are very different things though. Magura are brake people, I'd trust them, give them the chance.
Yep. My QRoo could've done with a parachute to slow down on the final descent at Gila...60mph+tt cable routing=fun.
 

BikeMike

Monkey
Feb 24, 2006
784
0
Avid's first try into discs on CX bikes sucked when they used the mtb BB7's. the road BB7's arent that much better
I remember a bunch of reviews and threads that said the road BB7s were good, but frame and hub selection was limited and really there wasn't much of an advantage except in cruddy conditions. Also the UCI thing. But most people aren't racing UCI races.

For me it usually seems like the coefficient of friction between tires and the road is the limiting factor in braking.
 

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
It certainly seems to fix some problems with TT frames; also seems in part due to the P5 release. Discs are the future for road and CX, but I think hydraulic rim brakes are not really going to go much into the standard road market. Road brakes are good and hydraulic rim brakes make more sense on a TT bike due to the cable problems.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Keep in mind one thing: at the highest levels of racing, everyone uses tubulars glued to carbon rims.

Disc brakes have the huge advantage of heat dissipation, while carbon is much worse than metal.

Also disc brakes put the weight at the hub, having less effect on rotational mass.

I suppose it will have to take a tubular rolling off on a big descent before disc brakes really take off.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,194
4,419
I remember a bunch of reviews and threads that said the road BB7s were good, but frame and hub selection was limited and really there wasn't much of an advantage except in cruddy conditions. Also the UCI thing. But most people aren't racing UCI races.

For me it usually seems like the coefficient of friction between tires and the road is the limiting factor in braking.
On the back tire for sure, on the front, straight-line... not sure.
 

thatoneguy

Monkey
Sep 6, 2001
122
0
N. California
I really like my BB7 road brakes on my commuter, even though they are cable actuated. With the rim brakes, in wet conditions, I could not stop in a hurry, with these, they are much more responsive...
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
8,887
14
Deep in the heart of TEXAS
Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that the stopping power will just brake traction when applied? The contact patch on a road tire is so small, I don't think I can imagine it will hold. In wet weather, I see this really being the case. I may end up being wrong, but I'm likely to not ever put them on a bike.

As far as tubulars go, I think it will add some weird stresses to tires if the brakes really try to stop hard. I just don't know where they fit in really.
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
As far as tubulars go, I think it will add some weird stresses to tires if the brakes really try to stop hard. I just don't know where they fit in really.
I think you might be overthinking the tubular thing alittle too much. A tubular race set up for mountain bikes have a gluing surface that isn't much larger than a road tubular, and they're subjected to stresses way more obscure, violent, and frequent than a road set up. As long as the glue is done right, I doubt it'll be a factor.

Some of the scary light rims and frames out there, I do wonder about though.

Who knows. I've seen crazier products take off and stick. S***, people still ride 29ers, and believe they like it.
 
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James

Carbon Porn Star
Sep 11, 2001
3,559
0
Danbury, CT
Am I the only person on the planet that thinks that the stopping power will just brake traction when applied? The contact patch on a road tire is so small, I don't think I can imagine it will hold. In wet weather, I see this really being the case. I may end up being wrong, but I'm likely to not ever put them on a bike.

As far as tubulars go, I think it will add some weird stresses to tires if the brakes really try to stop hard. I just don't know where they fit in really.
Brakes can be tuned, so no more stopping power, but more usable, especially in conditions like rain, etc, or with carbon wheels.
Regarding tubulars, it'll be better because the rim isn't being heated with the braking, so if anything discs will be safer.

Plus rims can be made lighter, as they won't have to have a braking surface, and more aero for the same reasons.
 

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
Plus rims can be made lighter, as they won't have to have a braking surface, and more aero for the same reasons.
Plus significantly safer for carbon clinchers. And braking on carbon can just only get so good, especially in the wet. Discs would really solve that issue.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,647
1,116
NORCAL is the hizzle
Also disc brakes put the weight at the hub, having less effect on rotational mass.
:think: I ain't no physics expert, but ordinary road brakes do not rotate and I don't see how they impact rotational mass.

We will probably see some rotating weight reduction at the rim once the manufacturers start making disc-specific road rims with no brake track. But even when that occurs, it seems clear that discs will add weight overall. The brake components will be heavier and the frame and fork need to be beefed up to accept disc mounting and handle the braking loads.

That said, count me in for disc brakes on a road bike, eventually. It's a no brainer, particularly with carbon rims.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
:think: I ain't no physics expert, but ordinary road brakes do not rotate and I don't see how they impact rotational mass.

We will probably see some rotating weight reduction at the rim once the manufacturers start making disc-specific road rims with no brake track. But even when that occurs, it seems clear that discs will add weight overall. The brake components will be heavier and the frame and fork need to be beefed up to accept disc mounting and handle the braking loads.

That said, count me in for disc brakes on a road bike, eventually. It's a no brainer, particularly with carbon rims.
That's what I meant. I know rim brakes don't rotate around the wheel (der!), but rims have braking tracks for the pads. By moving the brakes to the hub, then the rims can be lighter, reducing rotational weight.

The bike will be heavier because of the calipers and beefed-up frames, but considering the UCI 15lb weight limit and most high end bikes are under 14, redistributing weight away from the wheels is key.

Only if you were Asian, you would understand physics.