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Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
2,000
338
AZ
What about compatibility with Giant's co-pivot?
as far as i know the db coil uses the same 15mm eyelet fox and rs use and i see no reason why the air version would be different.

on the older S enduro they used a similar mounting system with no DU bushing and a 15mm axle running straight through the eyelet. the db coil fit that bike.

the possible issues i can see with mounting to a giant would be eyelet to air can distance, air can width or reservoir/downtube clearance.
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
I agree totally that spherical bearings are worth it. I've tried to find sphericals to retrofit into my current shocks (RP23 & RC4), even bought a couple, but the best fit I could find is a GE-8, which is 16mm OD, 8mm ID, but only 5mm wide. That's real narrow, and I never used them.
http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/Forwarder?action=PPP&lang=en&imperial=false&windowName=null&perfid=183000&prodid=183000003
Has anybody found a spherical bearing that will fit in a standard shock eye bore, with an 8mm ID, and wider than 5mm? I haven't, and think it would require a custom "low misalignment" design that could only handle several degrees of angular misalignment. I think what Cane Creek was using in the DB had an OD larger than 16mm.
 

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,400
47
Vancouver, BC
as far as i know the db coil uses the same 15mm eyelet fox and rs use and i see no reason why the air version would be different.
Nope. Recent versions of the coil had a slightly larger OD bore in the shock body to accommodate the spherical bearings if used. If not used, a sleeve is inserted into the bore into which a standard 15mm OD bushing is pressed. It works fine until you have to change the bushing, but removing the old bushing usually pulls out the sleeve, which then has to be replaced also.
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
2,000
338
AZ
Nope. Recent versions of the coil had a slightly larger OD bore in the shock body to accommodate the spherical bearings if used. If not used, a sleeve is inserted into the bore into which a standard 15mm OD bushing is pressed. It works fine until you have to change the bushing, but removing the old bushing usually pulls out the sleeve, which then has to be replaced also.
how do they prevent the sleeve from spinning in the eyelet or the DU from spinning in the sleeve?
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
how do they prevent the sleeve from spinning in the eyelet or the DU from spinning in the sleeve?
It's a press fit just like the bushing into the shock eye would be in any other shock.


Do the outer races of your headset bearings spin in the cups, or the cups in the frame?
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
By "stupid ones", I assume you mean the spherical bearings, which are a good thing for performance, as they remove the typical over-constrained situation of shock mounts. over-constrained shock mounts create extra friction and wear in the shock.
have you ridden the same frame and and same shock back to back with and without spherical bearings? i have. there is absolutely zero real world difference, on trail, in my experience. ymmv.

it is, however, a larger pain in the a$$ to switch around hardware etc, and for sure a way bigger pain if your chainstays arn't ultra stiff and you wear out the spherical bearing, and need to get them instead of the $2 DU bushing that is in ample supply everywhere on the planet.

plenty of frames go without a DU bushing (read: giant, specialized), and getting a CCDB on there requires some funky adapters and a bit of fiddling.
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
2,000
338
AZ
It's a press fit just like the bushing into the shock eye would be in any other shock.


Do the outer races of your headset bearings spin in the cups, or the cups in the frame?
no but i wouldn't think a headset would see nearly the amount of rotational force applied to it as many suspension rocker/link/shock interfaces do.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
no but i wouldn't think a headset would see nearly the amount of rotational force applied to it as many suspension rocker/link/shock interfaces do.
It's called torque. ;)


The ONLY torque they see is the result of friction in the pivot itself. So not much.
 

frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,454
5
I don't know if any1 is interested, but I've been told by Cane Creek employee that they are working on DBair with 15mm (instead of 16mm) eyelets to allow Glory and some older Spesh bike owners use latest CC product.
If you'd like to ride DBair on your Glory, as I do, write CC :)
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
if I understood well, author says it's rather a shock for big AM on EN bikes...
He definitely says that, plain as day.............and then lists features that are desirable for ANY bike, especially DH bikes. :rolleyes:


What do you expect though......Bike magazine. I don't know who 'squirrel' is but if he fits into the history of Bike magazine, he doesn't get a whole lot of runs on 40lb bikes.


Anybody sitting on one of these right now? If so, do me a solid and measure the big chamber outside diameter. Thanks!
 
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mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
...do me a solid and measure the big chamber outside diameter. Thanks!
2.25" OD of the air spring chamber; it looks huge, but really isn't much bigger in diameter than a coil spring. My CCDB with steel 400 lb/in spring is 2.12" OD.

As far as application, I've talked to CC about it, they said the whole purpose of the air spring was to work better with different frame leverage rates; not necessarily a certain type of bike. I interpret that as being designed for frames that don't have a progressive leverage rate, basically.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
2.25" OD of the air spring chamber; it looks huge, but really isn't much bigger in diameter than a coil spring. My CCDB with steel 400 lb/in spring is 2.12" OD.

As far as application, I've talked to CC about it, they said the whole purpose of the air spring was to work better with different frame leverage rates; not necessarily a certain type of bike. I interpret that as being designed for frames that don't have a progressive leverage rate, basically.
Awsome man. Thanks!
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I don't think it has already been posted... Good review of DBair, however, if I understood well, author says it's rather a shock for big AM on EN bikes...
http://www.bikemag.com/gear/initial-thoughts-cane-creek-dbair/
That's a load of bs. Yes bikes designed around air shocks will have different leverage curves but there are many full on dh rigs that are linear to slightly degressive. Sunday, Legend, 224 and probably quite a few others. It's just the CC guys claim it's not to loose weight but to offer a progressive CCDB for the people who couldn't run the spring version (or didn't want to) because of the linear nature of that shock.
 

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,441
1,422
Italy/south Tyrol
That's a load of bs. Yes bikes designed around air shocks will have different leverage curves but there are many full on dh rigs that are linear to slightly degressive. Sunday, Legend, 224 and probably quite a few others. It's just the CC guys claim it's not to loose weight but to offer a progressive CCDB for the people who couldn't run the spring version (or didn't want to) because of the linear nature of that shock.
So Norbar, when are you getting yours?