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an AM bike you'd like a company to build

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,167
73
Israel
do you have a shape you'd like a company to build?
I find the TR250 is really a nice looking bike
transition took the loved shape of their downhill bike and made a shorter travel bike
there are probably more examples of companies already do that,
I wish Turner would make a 5 inch travel bike that looks like the DHR
for now they have the 5spot. it is a really good bike... but it looks like....%#%%^
I really think if they had the 5spot look like the DHR, I’ll definitely buy one.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I really like the look of the ION series Nicolai bikes. Helious kinda looks similar but it could be a bit sleeker.

An AM makulu would also look great.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,908
634
i really want to see a 12.5-12.7 inch BB, 120-130mm travel, 16.3-16.7CS, 63-64 degree ha, and corresponding correct sizes (like 45-46inch wb large) with solid breaking performance. Made out of carbon, can be built to ~29-31 lbs with a decent/strong build.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,508
822
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Only thing missing from my current bike is a really steep seat tube angle. If I setup the seat to be in the proper climbing position it moves too far forward when lowered. I slide it back a little to be better on downhills but that puts my weight pretty far back when climbing
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
i really want to see a 12.5-12.7 inch BB, 120-130mm travel, 16.3-16.7CS, 63-64 degree ha, and corresponding correct sizes (like 45-46inch wb large) with solid breaking performance. Made out of carbon, can be built to ~29-31 lbs with a decent/strong build.
i'm with you. slammed & slack carbon w/ mini dh numbers. i do like the stubbier stays as well; makes for a playful ride. i'd go a little less radical, w/ a bit more travel, say ~6x6. perhaps something like a sb66c w/ 16.75" stays, 13" bb, 74* sta & 65* h/a.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
A lot of dh bikes would climb like ass when angled uphill with a seated rider I would think.

In situations like the turners, the links are where they are (and dictate frame 'look') because that's where they need to be to perform their specific functions. Not sure how much you could mess with that one.

Some of the swinglink single pivots might translate a little better.......and yeah......definitely look better.
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
i'm with you. slammed & slack carbon w/ mini dh numbers.
everyone keeps talking about this 'holy grail' but that thing would ride like hell as a trail bike dont you think? I know i wouldnt want that. 67-66 seems to be pretty damn good, and if you need much slacker you probably need a bigger bike.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
i really want to see a 12.5-12.7 inch BB, 120-130mm travel, 16.3-16.7CS, 63-64 degree ha, and corresponding correct sizes (like 45-46inch wb large) with solid breaking performance. Made out of carbon, can be built to ~29-31 lbs with a decent/strong build.
that sounds like the complete opposite of what i would call a "AM" bike. it sounds more like a short travel DH bike
 

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
You would need to run 150mm cranks around here with a BB that low. That geo sounds fun, but hardly practical for AM riding.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
everyone keeps talking about this 'holy grail' but that thing would ride like hell as a trail bike dont you think? I know i wouldnt want that. 67-66 seems to be pretty damn good, and if you need much slacker you probably need a bigger bike.
depends what trails you ride for sure. here on the shore we're riding the same gradient trails we used to on dh & freeride bikes a few years ago, but travel and weight has been dropping (to better facilitate climbs / non shuttled epic excursions & overall fun factor). if you've got proper geometry, you don't necessarily need the long legs to ride the steep tech. using a steeper sta balances a slack ha pretty effectively as well. i agree these kinds of numbers wouldn't be for everyone though. that's what slacksets, offset bushings & short shocks are for i suppose.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
i really want to see a 12.5-12.7 inch BB, 120-130mm travel, 16.3-16.7CS, 63-64 degree ha, and corresponding correct sizes (like 45-46inch wb large) with solid breaking performance. Made out of carbon, can be built to ~29-31 lbs with a decent/strong build.
That bike would not climb over anything unless you put drop road bars on it. My current bike has less travel is 66.7 and 16.9 CS and it requires more effort than classical trailbikes to go on steeper trails.

What you describe is a park bike with a pedalable seat tube. Basicly a GT Distortion Carbon or Nicolai Ion 14

Unless it has to be carbon get this:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S3OCQdmZ_i8/TfyH6ilSMlI/AAAAAAAAFGE/fIuSNDCeFo4/s400/ION+14+429.jpg

Add an angleset to it and order custom longer TT if the large is too short for you.

My banshee spitfire, but with bearings instead of bushings.
THAT. In terms of a rideable bike spitty is great if only it had bearings. As soon as I have cash I'm getting one.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
i really want to see a 12.5-12.7 inch BB, 120-130mm travel, 16.3-16.7CS, 63-64 degree ha, and corresponding correct sizes (like 45-46inch wb large) with solid breaking performance. Made out of carbon, can be built to ~29-31 lbs with a decent/strong build.
It's funny how certain bikes have come and gone into and out of the fold over the years without people noticing why they were popular at the time.

Let me introduce you to the bike I and a lot of other people owned a little while back. It's the bike I learned how to go fast on really. (click on the geometry tab)

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?arc=2003&sid=03Enduro&gold_ses=

130mm travel
16.7" chainstay
13.1" advertised BB, mine was just under 13", probably close to the top end of your range, specialized used to be good like that, Hold a straight edge up the to the picture and notice the BB is below a straight line between the front and rear axles......that's where life gets good.
69 degree headangle which was pretty accurate, so sign of the times on that one.
Weight was in the high 20s.

That was almost 10 years ago when that frame came out, and the really old spec bikes that they don't have on their site anymore were 4/4.5" travel frames with honest to god 12.5" BBs.

But TONS of people had those bikes in the link I posted and really liked them, myself included. Their fatal flaw was that this design squatted like crazy when climbing uphill. It's the only reason I got rid of it.

But it cracks me up when people say 'oh you couldn't ride a bike like that here'

It was already done. These frames were everywhere, people really liked them, and they were even sketchier in a lot of ways because of frame stiffness, worse shocks, worse wheels and steeper headangles.

Norbar: my current 5 spot with a 2 degree slacker headset is straight up 66 degrees with the same size tires, 65.5 with the 2.5 front/2.35 rear maxxis tires I have on there now. It goes uphill juusssst fine ;) It would do it even better if the BB were lower. Stability applies at 3mph just like it does at 30mph.
 
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norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Norbar: my current 5 spot with a 2 degree slacker headset is straight up 66 degrees with the same size tires, 65.5 with the 2.5 front/2.35 rear maxxis tires I have on there now. It goes uphill juusssst fine ;) It would do it even better if the BB were lower. Stability applies at 3mph just like it does at 30mph.
Weight bias applies to. The slacker the bike and the shorter the cs the more rearward bias you have. More rearward bias = more front wheel lift on the climbs. Mine also goes up very well but I notice how on some tech uphills (i mean the ones that are impossible to ride over 500m). For 3/4 of the cases it is still rideable but I notice the differance in climbing when I lower my front fork so I doubt it isn't the other way around.

It all depends on what your definition of UP is. I remember riding my bike on some enduro trails but I doubt I could ride it on all the uphills even with a lighter build.

btw. I'm wondering what 2.5 maxxis do you use? Because that may be a good enduro tire but for a trailbike? Unless it's something with very good thread pattern it seems to me that we have a very different definition of a trailbike at all.




Also what is peoples obsession with slack head angles those days? Are you going at true downhill speeds, on rough tracks on trailbikes? I want my trailbike to be somewhere between stable and nimble. It has to be FUN not only super duper slack.
 
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-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
i really want to see a 12.5-12.7 inch BB, 120-130mm travel, 16.3-16.7CS, 63-64 degree ha, and corresponding correct sizes (like 45-46inch wb large) with solid breaking performance. Made out of carbon, can be built to ~29-31 lbs with a decent/strong build.

Sounds like a carbon Spitfire to me.

My "perfect" bike would be if a Spitfire and a 5spot made sweet love and had a kid.
DW link suspension, bushings instead of bearings, Turner's attention to detail, Spitfire's geometry, full 1.5 HT. I'd be on that like um... Star Jones on a smoked turkey leg? White on rice?
 
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Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
Sweet. I was hoping that the DH forum here would one day have a DHers trail bike thread.
All my hopes and dreams have been answered. New ground has been broken.
The future suddenly seems so bright. That means we should probaly have a DHer's sunglasses thread.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Weight bias applies to. The slacker the bike and the shorter the cs the more rearward bias you have.
Sure but that's why you lower the BB too :D My 5 spot is just a hair under 17" so it's just outside the range we're talking but lower the thing and drop your weight more inside the wheels and you can counteract a lot of that.........and get a setup overall that fvcking rails.

And when it gets bumpy AND steep most people are out of the saddle all over the front anyway. I noticed something years ago when travel adjust forks came out and everybody started whining about 'front end wandering'. I live somewhere where the dirt just seriously, genuinely sucks. It's loose and dry almost all the time. Having a lot of weight on your rear wheel is a very good thing when going uphill because it gives you a lot more bite. Most people who ride in environments like this will tell you the same thing. It's just something you get used to......just like climbing up steep wet roots everywhere. The only time I ever use a travel adjustment on a fork is when the angle of my seat gets uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with looping out or that weird phantom problem people bring up where they can't seem to steer their bikes uphill. It's a non issue. And the specs that william outlined would work just fine. They're not THAT far off from most of what's being made now. I don't think it's as big of a deal as you might.

I've got a maxxis 2.5 minion exo on the front. It's a little overkill right now while there's moisture in the dirt but it's fun to have when it gets loose midsummer. Works tubeless which is huge. And obviously since it's maxxis, it's not really as big as a 2.5.

Sweet. I was hoping that the DH forum here would one day have a DHers trail bike thread.
All my hopes and dreams have been answered. New ground has been broken.
The future suddenly seems so bright. That means we should probaly have a DHer's sunglasses thread.
I think this is the first one I've actually read (at least in a while). They're all like this huh?
 
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-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
My banshee spitfire, but with bearings instead of bushings.
Really? Hmm... I happen to really like the bushings. Did you get one where the bushings wear out real fast? Mine have been just fine for the year I have had it. They may not be quite as buttery smooth as bearings, but it isn't anything I can notice at all when I'm on the trail. Better yet, they are a snap to replace and only cost about $10 a set.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,596
5,894
in a single wide, cooking meth...
My "perfect" bike would be if a Spitfire and a 5spot made sweet love and had a kid.
DW link suspension, bushings instead of bearings, Turner's attention to detail, Spitfire's geometry, full 1.5 HT. I'd be on that like um... Star Jones on a smoked turkey leg? White on rice?

Really? Hmm... I happen to really like the bushings. Did you get one where the bushings wear out real fast? Mine have been just fine for the year I have had it. They may not be quite as buttery smooth as bearings, but it isn't anything I can notice at all when I'm on the trail. Better yet, they are a snap to replace and only cost about $10 a set.
^^
All of this. I too prefer bushings over bearings (especially small f*cking bearings), and truthfully, if my Spitty had a Turner style bushing design, I'd likely ride it until it went all Whitney (although I doubt it will catastrophically fail in a bathtub, but who knows). Hell, that is probably the plan anyway, as a recent car repair blew my tentative plans for a EVO Stumper.



And Jeremy, a point of clarification - this is a thread about a DH'ers dream AM bike, not a sissy trail bike. This thread is totally different than the other ones...

Actually, your comment got me thinking that someone should start a bike company called "WWDD", or "What Would a Downhill Do"

You could have a whole line of DH trail bikes, DH AM bikes, DH road bikes, DH DJ bikes, DH XC bikes, DH CX bikes, DH Comfort bikes, DH kids bikes, DH spin class bikes, DH recumbent bikes, DH SS, DH 4X bike, DH Slopestyle bikes, Dh Enduro bikes, DH unicycles, DH fixies, etc...Everything would be 4* too slack, 12.5" BB height, 14" seat tube (max), chain guide tabs, random gussets, 150 mm rears, 17.5" chain stays, fenders, coil shocks (even on the road bikes), thru axles, and "Approved by Fabien Barel" stickers.

I think I just wrote my business plan.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout
You could have a whole line of DH trail bikes, DH AM bikes, DH road bikes, DH DJ bikes, DH XC bikes, DH CX bikes, DH Comfort bikes, DH kids bikes, DH spin class bikes, DH recumbent bikes, DH SS, DH 4X bike, DH Slopestyle bikes, Dh Enduro bikes, DH unicycles, DH fixies, etc...Everything would be 4* too slack, 12.5" BB height, 14" seat tube (max), chain guide tabs, random gussets, 150 mm rears, 17.5" chain stays, fenders, coil shocks (even on the road bikes), thru axles, and "Approved by Fabien Barel" stickers.
sounds like a drunk bike orgy
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
448
I don't think it's a bad topic- fun to bs about and practical for more of us on a day to day basis. I would even venture a guess that these threads have influenced actual bike designs. When these first came out it was hard to find a slack and low trail bike- definately easier now!
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
448
I do agree with the point that it would be nice to have all of these threads in one...
 

aenema

almost 100% positive
Sep 5, 2008
305
111
I originally think this thread was started with aesthetics in mind, not so much geometry but I think this turn is more appropriate to what I give a **** about. I used to have a Spitfire but sold it. Didn't like the bushings and didn't care for the long'ish stays. It was stable but it wanted to hug the ground too much for my perference. Tried a Pivot Mach 5.7 but it didn't pan out. Also had a GT sanction but I was between a medium and a large for preferred fit and sold it also. I am now on a Enduro Carbon and love it. Geo is spot on for what I want. Just bought a Pushed Monarch RC3 for it also and eager for a good test ride on that piece of equipment.

For the longest time I looked away from specialized to avoid the big brands but they really have dialed geometry and a lot of models to fit whatever niche. I grudgingly say that they are kinda killing it right now.