Seeking the advice of RM...

Pesqueeb · Mar 31, 2012

In banking/insurance, if I were to hazard a guess it's lack of a degree. You can get away with that in a field like aviation (I'm doing okay with only a technical degree +some college), but I would think formal "education" is going to carry more weight in your industry.

My $.02

Kevin · Mar 31, 2012

Assertive negotiating.

RaindogT · Mar 31, 2012

as someone who is 10 years your senior-- I will offer this advice: work hard and you will be rewarded.

Also 'insurance/banking' is a little vague as to what you do/ want to do/ want to advance with/ etc.
A degree can't hurt, but not guaranteed to help- ( i was a philosophy student--- I wanted advanced degrees to teach with, my oldest happened (whoops-- wasn't expecting that...

) and school has been put on hold indefinitely... He is now 8 years- you see how this is going.

philo degree with incomplete masters and phd dreams isn't exactly ascending my 'career' to heavenly heights.... BTW, do you want fries with that?

just my .02-- the people who are advancing from your department-- do they have degrees? Do they have aspirations that don't match yours? are they taking a different path? etc.

mandown · Mar 31, 2012

Offered a position if you were to return? Are you contacting?

The problem could be the size of company you work for. If there is no place to promote you, they won't. When I was with a CPA firm, the path was very clear: up or out. From day-one, you knew the ranking system and the requirements to move up. If you couldn't cut it, they had no place for permanent entry-level staff.

Some jobs are the opposite, and they want you to be good at one thing, but only one thing. Sounds like you may be in this boat. You are a cog in their machine, and they need a cog to do the job of a cog. If you do a good job, you will be rewarded with more work, as a cog.

One of the best ways to move up, and gain leverage, is to find a way to do something that nobody else can or wants to do. Build machines that you operate. I do some simple pivot-table trickery in Excel and some basic query foolishness in Access. My boss has no idea how to do any of it, so he relies on me for these items. When I was out on medical leave, they found people in IT who could help manipulate what I already created so it could continue being used. However, my boss doesn't speak IT and the IT guys don't speak finance, so it took some effort for them to coordinate.

Be sure to track real and meaningful accomplishments on your resume. Don't make it a list of tasks you've done, but a menu of benefits you are capable of providing. Without a degree, your history is the only point of reference you can put on paper.

binary visions · Mar 31, 2012

I count 7 jobs ("few temp agencies" = 3?) in, what, 10 years? That means you have no built up experience anywhere, and it sounds like admin work everywhere, so no relevant experience in any event. When people say "work hard and you'll be rewarded" - they don't mean work for 6 months and you'll get a promotion, usually.

Something an old boss told me that has been something I always think of, was that I should always be expanding my influence. For that job, I started as a filing and typing temp. Every process that I saw that I thought I could improve, I did. Eventually I was handling updates to all of our documents. While doing that, I saw they were always behind on their computer systems validations, so I offered to help. 6 months later, I was doing that almost full time. While doing that, I saw how and when the computer systems were undergoing changes, so I started helping out there. Eventually I was doing validations and system development. I worked there for about 4 years.

The same thing happened at my current job. Started as tier 1 tech support, moved into tier 3 support, eventually was doing support investigations full time instead of being on the phones, and now I'm in R&D as their senior network and systems engineer for the product. I've been there for 2.5 years.

Especially if you're not in the direct line of work that you want to be in, hard work isn't enough. It isn't enough to be good at your job. You have to keep pushing into other areas and prove that you can do the work.

Just my opinion. I'm not much older than you but I've been rapidly promoted and rewarded in every job I've had by following that advice.

baca262 · Mar 31, 2012

how are your balls?

3 years ago, after i broke up with my first long term gf i've come to realize what a chronic pussy i was and that was one of the reasons the relationship ended. since then i've been consciously working on my confidence and giving less ****s about idiots and other nonsense. i'm still not where i want to be but i see that people treat me differently these days, they are more respectful, my opinions matter more, blah blah, what i'm trying to say is that 3 years ago i was a wimp, people saw that and at least tried to use me, if not worse. this is not the case anymore. i actually find myself in authority in some situations nowadays and it's ****ing awesome. this "attitude" thing helps in every social aspect of life. seriously, go tell those assholes that you DEMAND MOAR MONEY. try being a dick, in today's corporate world it's me, myself and i anyways.

you only need be careful and tone it down a little if you can't afford to lose the job, if that's the case that's one of the worst mistakes you can make, rectify that asap. when your boss can threaten to fire you, he can treat you anyway he wants. now if you really don't need the job, you can simply tell him to go sodomize himself with a pineapple.

EDIT - i wrote this presuming you are willing to learn new stuff in order to advance. if you are not, applying more balls is going to make you just an ordinary dick.

was? · Mar 31, 2012

by working hard you mean doing what you're told to do? that may be insufficient...
but i dunno if beeing a clerk has any inherent prospects of beeing promoted. maybe another job/career path could be the answer. 27yrs isn't old....
25k before or after taxes?

dante · Mar 31, 2012

So, I totally agree with everything that's been said. Education is part of it, but often in the banking/insurance world it's more based on your licensing (Series 7, 63, etc) as opposed to a specific degree. I'd *highly* suggest you see what field you'd like to get in to, and start taking some tests (and, you know, learning the subject matter beforehand).

Also, ask your bosses about what it would take to move up. Chances are they'd be willing to discuss what it would take (education, licensing, experience, attitude, etc), and that also allows them to see that you're eager about improving your skill set, and being a greater asset to the organization. Remember, this isn't about them promoting you. It's about you proving to them that you're a greater asset. Don't think of it as just "doing your job", think of it as "I proved my worth to the organization by........" That doesn't mean just working harder, staying late, blah blah blah, it means influencing the organization, improving their bottom line, cutting the time it takes to do things, etc.

"Working harder" is about effort. "Improving the organization" is all about results.

Good luck!

edit: By the way, if you ask your boss flat out what it would take to move up in the organization, you'll find out whether it's an attainable goal or not. If they say "you'd need a masters in economics", well..... there's your answer. If they say "you need a finance degree", see if they'd reimburse you for part of your schooling. If they need someone to have a specific license, see if they'll sponsor you (I *think* you need a sponsor for some of the finance licensing, but not sure). Regardless, it can't hurt to ask.

stoney · Mar 31, 2012

You will be hard pressed to have a firm sponsor you for licensing without a degree. If you are detail focused and good with numbers, you might want to think about getting an AA in accounting. You can work as a bookkeeper with that, and use hat (assuming you work for a BA o BS in accounting) as a stepping stool.

MTB_Rob_NC · Mar 31, 2012

Wow a lot of noise in this thread. As a SVP of a medium sized Finance company 1/2 a billion in assets, 700+ Employees I have a number of folks that work for me with very similar backgrounds and job descriptions. File clerks, collectors, title specialists you name it.

Now onto your scenario. You really have only a few options without a degree to move up the corporate ladder in the organization(s) you described.
1) Produce revenue - In the insurance world that means sell product and bring in premiums. In the banking world, it typically means sell products (Mortgages, Car loans, small loans, insurance products etc).
2) Manage other people - all of the jobs you mentioned are never really going to be worth a ton of cash, but where you can add value is if you can get good at any one of them, prove that you can multiply your results by managing other people. That sounds easy, but you are going to have to start by being a top producer in your area for 2 - 5 years with some consistency.

Good luck

DirtyMike · Mar 31, 2012

Oh I did not read every response, but I read your dilemma, and read your background.

As someone who hires people I see this, you background is as a clerk, and your a flight risk to hire. You have too many jobs in too short of time. BUT, I would also give you a chance being you have references that tell me you work hard and are dedicated.

So you say your in insurance, but what I got from what you posted is you have been a clerk for insurance companies. So not into insurance but basically the bitch for the person who is making the money.

Here is the cold hard truth, education helps, but there are ways to make good money without major college degree's. You brought up the insurance, why not go take a few classes and get certified to sell insurance. Not be someones secretary, but sell the policies yourself. That would open you up for A LOT more pay, then you show dedication and long term and you end up going up and up.

Sounds to me the problem isn't that your not being given the opportunity, but that your not taking the opportunity. I agree with the post asking how big your balls are, there comes a time were you need to man up and go for it.

hieronymusbosch · Mar 31, 2012

26 years of professionally doing what I've loved since the late sixties and I have few or no answers Kavu.

I spent too many years happily working 60-85 weeks and made some money along the way, but fukked my social life and blew several relationships in the process. A couple awesome chicks in that mix that I'll never get back.

Was it worth chasing money and enjoying the rush of constant pressure and deadlines by finishing on time and making the company even more money and only dulled with a diet of large amounts booze which will eventually kill me? FUQ NO.

Find something you enjoy waking up every day to do and surround yourself with good people while living humbly and you'll have a much better life than most.

DirtyMike · Apr 1, 2012

I think the real key here is to realize what world you are truly in. You say you have no interest in selling nor a hi pressure job. Yet you are complaining that you are making 25K average.

Basically at this point you have been a secretary, if I read your description right, and secretary work just does not pay well.

If you want something that is not too much pressure, yes pays someone better, say 40-50 range, then you need to learn a trade. it is as simple as that. What do you like doing? Figure that out and hit up a trade school. Start there.

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Seeking the advice of RM...

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