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canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,192
19,158
Canaderp
Plus in todays world of manufacturing, do prototypes even really exist anymore for the most part? Obviously there are one offs and very early basic designs, but it seems that what is often labeled as a prototype is just an example of a finished product before it is produced on a massive scale.

If there are really only a couple of those frames out there, do you think the guy(s) at Evil would be blind enough to just let Zink walk away with it if his contract said otherwise?

At least the guy states that the frame isn't the one from that commercial with the huge ass backflip. Whoever buys that frame is special haha
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Plus in todays world of manufacturing, do prototypes even really exist anymore for the most part? Obviously there are one offs and very early basic designs, but it seems that what is often labeled as a prototype is just an example of a finished product before it is produced on a massive scale.
not having protos to test will end in the same way the revolt did. bad
 

UiUiUiUi

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2003
1,378
0
Berlin, Germany
Plus in todays world of manufacturing, do prototypes even really exist anymore for the most part? Obviously there are one offs and very early basic designs, but it seems that what is often labeled as a prototype is just an example of a finished product before it is produced on a massive scale.
they still exist, and massive corporations usually have somebody who manages who gets what kind of proto for what kind of uses... i should have known we always had to beg for some time with the prototypes at my last job... :D
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
not having protos to test will end in the same way the revolt did. bad
Yup. There will be always situations that could not be foreseen by the engineers. For the bike industry I'd still say it's the most important part of rooting out durability issues if done properly.
 

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,347
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
Reliability Growth Testing is where it's at, and for that you'll be wanting a full-sized prototype
I like what Banshee does. Make a run of preproduction frames but sells them to Joey JustRidin'Along and he rides it like 90% of riders are going to do. Puts it away dirty, takes sh!tty lines, rides till the bearings fall out. It's one thing to make proto's and have the best riders in the world test them it's another to make proto's and have a bunch of weekend hack's testing them.

Not that I'm really adding any value to the thread, just talking.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I like what Banshee does. Make a run of preproduction frames but sells them to Joey JustRidin'Along and he rides it like 90% of riders are going to do. Puts it away dirty, takes sh!tty lines, rides till the bearings fall out. It's one thing to make proto's and have the best riders in the world test them it's another to make proto's and have a bunch of weekend hack's testing them.

Not that I'm really adding any value to the thread, just talking.
Yup. That's what made me buy my Legend and what makes it very tempting to get a Prime.
 

tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
891
15
I think you guys are reading way too much in that secret prototype-thing. It's just a bicycle not a f1 car.

And then most of you ain't even working in the bike industry so how would you know if they care about it? Obviously not.

zink.jpg
 
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blackohio

Generous jaywalker
Mar 12, 2009
2,773
122
Hellafornia. Formerly stumptown.
I happen to know from talking with kevin he does care, and lets consider for a second that said rider sells proto frame to someone. Frame somehow breaks horribly. Consumer has quite a potential lawsuit on his hands. Selling the proto has different implications beyond just being a secret bike, theres a certain liability factor involved.
 

tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
891
15
Well if he hasn't made a contract with zink about not selling the frames he recieved through the sponsorship he's free to do with them what they want. Other riders did and do this too so I wonder why everyone get's so excited about this.

Thousands of frames and components break and people get hurt but I never heard anything about lawsuits against bike companies.
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
Well if he hasn't made a contract with zink about not selling the frames he recieved through the sponsorship he's free to do with them what they want. Other riders did and do this too so I wonder why everyone get's so excited about this.

Thousands of frames and components break and people get hurt but I never heard anything about lawsuits against bike companies.
The arguments are so fierce because the stakes are so low
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,010
1,146
El Lay
Tabletop84, let me clue you in.

This is page 29, and at this stage of the thread's development, Evil & Kevin are cool again and Cam Zink is not cool, regardless of what he is doing or selling. I'm not 100% sure, but he may even be a considered a freerider.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Have any of you considered that cam's a dick and has screwed over/pissed off multiple previous employers? It's one thing for Lindsay vonn to sell a pair of skis that she's used up and has 300x a year of...it's another for a douchey sponsored pro to sell one of what, 3 carbon evils in existence. It's not hard to believe that maybe he just doesn't give a **** what the contract said or whether there was a clause at all. In a year he'll be with an even smaller sponsor anyways, and then he'll be in jail/washed up.
 

epic

Turbo Monkey
Sep 15, 2008
1,041
21
Have any of you considered that cam's a dick and has screwed over/pissed off multiple previous employers?
I had not, is that fact or E-spec? I think it's funny that so many people care so much. I think it's crazy that anyone who has seen pictures of Cam Zink riding would consider buying anything from him that was not NIB. "Ridden Lightly" by him is probably like 3 seasons of riding every day by me.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I happen to know from talking with kevin he does care, and lets consider for a second that said rider sells proto frame to someone. Frame somehow breaks horribly. Consumer has quite a potential lawsuit on his hands. Selling the proto has different implications beyond just being a secret bike, theres a certain liability factor involved.
That's a used bike, from a pro who is not really known for being light on gear, not under warranty by Evil. If there is liability american law is plan stupid. Using this logic if I buy a beat up frame from a pro, non proto and it cracks I can sue the company? Come on.

@Sandwich from what I hear Cam is not really a douche, he just isn't very good at following the rules. Written or not.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
if it was a karpiel, nobody would care. i don't see much difference in business practice between the two...
Sorry but then you are stupid. Kevin did not pack his bags and ran leaving clients with no frames. It takes long but from what it seems he tries to make it right.
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
That's a used bike, from a pro who is not really known for being light on gear, not under warranty by Evil. If there is liability american law is plan stupid. Using this logic if I buy a beat up frame from a pro, non proto and it cracks I can sue the company? Come on.

@Sandwich from what I hear Cam is not really a douche, he just isn't very good at following the rules. Written or not.
For the most part, yes. The notion of personal responsibility often disappears as soon as you can blame someone else for not forseeing your stupidity and planning against it.

Case in point: I almost had to sit on a jury for a lawsuit filed by a kid who was riding (trespassing) down the open slope grass trails of a private, closed, never-open-for-biking ski area. He hit a pipe and blew out his knee. he was suing the ski area for negligence in leaving the pipe out where it could hurt someone. Forget that the case actually made it to court in the first place; he very well may have won.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
tell that to the people still waiting over 2 years for a frame. until frames actually hit the masses, your point has no merit...
Actually your point has no merit. The frames did arrive, were rideable although some of them were faulty. Yes until the frame arrive we can't say it's all ok but I doubt Kevin is working just to give us a reason to talk on ridemonkey and not to release the frame. The main differance here is intentions. Comparing Evil to Karpiel is dangerously close to calling him a thief and a scammer. Though I guess it's easy to throw accusations on the internet.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,191
media blackout
Actually your point has no merit. The frames did arrive, were rideable although some of them were faulty. Yes until the frame arrive we can't say it's all ok but I doubt Kevin is working just to give us a reason to talk on ridemonkey and not to release the frame. The main differance here is intentions. Comparing Evil to Karpiel is dangerously close to calling him a thief and a scammer. Though I guess it's easy to throw accusations on the internet.
Jan Karpiel cut the course in 1990
 

Pete..

Monkey
Feb 11, 2009
450
0
Santa Cruz
I'm pretty entertained that some of you are mad about him selling a bike.

The guys at Evil should be happy that someone in the public will finally be able to ride their hype-machine and tell us all unbiasedly (cause spending thousands of dollars isn't gonna influence you) how amazing this frame is.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
I'm pretty entertained that some of you are mad about him selling a bike.

The guys at Evil should be happy that someone in the public will finally be able to ride their hype-machine and tell us all unbiasedly (cause spending thousands of dollars isn't gonna influence you) how amazing this frame is.
Yeah. People never rationalize their stupid spendings ;)