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Is there a DH/FR hardtail that you can (more o less) pedal?

Hello all,

I want to build a certain type of bike, but I barely know any brands, so I'd like to hear the :monkey: wisdom to see if there are any frames that could do the job.

What do I want:
- Must be hardtail.
- Geo oriented to DH or, even better, freeride.
- Ideally, with a 1.5" headtube, chainguide anchor points, able to use 2.5" rubbers, etc.
- 2nd hand availability is very welcome
So far, there are bikes like this, though not too many -seems they were popular a few years ago, but not anymore. Here comes the problem:
- Must be able to pedal it (with saddle up, no hurries, and sweating like a pig). In other words, a >45-50cm seat tube is mandatory. :weee:
- I don't care about weight and aesthetics.

So, the closest thing I've found are DH and enduro bikes.
The first ones (vagrant, cocker, morphine) etc. are really tough and have a nice geo, but you can't pedal them. At least, not without a 50cm - 1.5ft seatpost. I don't expect to climb too comfortable (more like a crawl), but in a DH bike you're too cramped to pedal 100m straight, even less a steep climb (the front wheel would rise with every bump).
On the other hand, enduro bikes sure can be pedaled, but often lack chainguide anchor points, aggressive geo, or tyre clearance.

I know I'm almost asking contradictory things, but there must be a middle point. A slightly larger DH bike with longer seattube -like ~45cm- is such a weird thing?
So far, I've been told about the rayleigh mmmbop (more enduro) and toof (more dh). Any ideas?
 
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baca262

Monkey
Aug 16, 2011
392
0
norbar, i can't believe you haven't mentioned the ns surge/core (no 1.5 though).

the shan also looks really nice but it's quite expensive.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,224
11
MTL
These would be good (altough IDK if they produced that TI version; looks über pimp though)



burfs-bike.jpg

I wouldn't race XC on one of those, but they sure look bad ass for DHing!! 83bb 150rear; 45 degree head angle!!! http://www.btr-fabrications.com/
 
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baca262

Monkey
Aug 16, 2011
392
0
:D

i was going to mention that one but it's full on dh. i'd love to build one with my old 888, xt 4 pots and other foolproof parts - ideal beater dh bike. the frame is quite expensive for now though.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
ragley bagger. burly, steel (for a modicum of compliance; i wouldn't dh an alu ht [i've done it])~65* h/a (w/ 160mm fork), a nice steep st angle to keep the front planted on climbs, proper length seattube for full extension (i've got the 18"), chain guide tabs, 44mm ht (will fit anything), swopout drops (qr or 12mm thru), huge tire clearance, and a relatively cheap price. i likes mine.
 
My longest routes usually mean getting to the top of the mountain, then go all the way down. That means several hours of pedaling, pushing the bike and then dhing over varied terrain. I don't see how could I pedal an evil imperial for more than a few meters with 6kg of stuff on my back and protective gear, with several hours of climbing with the bike on the back waiting for me (at least without training all day). :rofl:

Many of the bikes posted have the problem I mention (and anything labeled as dual/street/DJ), a short seat tube. With ~81cm of inseam, anything less than 50cm means I can't pedal it seated. The other problem... they are way out of my budget (a low one).

So far, the Toof (=same geo as the Bagger, but alu instead of steel) seems the best choice.
xy9ine, I'm 1.8m high, should I get that size too? Is there a post about it?
Hope they put the fram on sale on CRC soon... :weee:

Thanks anyway for the inputs!
 
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Apr 18, 2011
72
0
Crossville Tennessee
They are not made anymore and you would have a hard time finding one anywhere but I have one and its exactly what you have mentioned. Gary Fisher PHD. Its the hardtail version of the old king fisher. Mine is an 07 model and I do litterally everything on it. The frame is aluminum with 1.5 ht 17.5 chainstays. I have a 160mm fork on it and it definitely does not feel too cramped when I have the seat up on climbs. But the geo is just right for ripping down hills. Not to mention its the stiffest bike I have ever ridden. This is compared to other hatdtails.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,212
4,462
Sounds like some pretty specific specifications. I'm not aware of anything that really fits the bill entirely. The frames I know of don't really have the seat tube. The new sovereign in XL + a Works Components headset to slacken it further might be the closest I'm aware of.

Custom would really be the ticket though. Call up ftw! :)
 

amishmatt

Turbo Monkey
Sep 21, 2005
1,264
397
Lancaster, PA
As far as used/second hand availability, maybe look for an Iron Horse Yakuza hardtail. A friend of mine built his old one up for DH: http://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-freeride/hardtail-i-plan-race-596848.html

1.jpg

Not slack and low by DH standards, but fits FR criteria pretty well.

Since then, he's built an On One 456 Summer Season with a Pike that's longer, lower and slacker, and he likes a lot better for DH.
 
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norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,367
1,605
Warsaw :/
norbar, i can't believe you haven't mentioned the ns surge/core (no 1.5 though).

the shan also looks really nice but it's quite expensive.
I may be biased because I remember it by its predecessor which wasn't pedalable at all. Well that and companies with huge BS marketing policies put me off.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,721
5,604
I really want one of these-

It's a 2Souls Funtail, German made from Reynolds but sadly just a 1 1/8" HT.

If you go cheap go the Ragley over the On-One, as I have written before(a few times) their QC is crap and they flex too much. If you do get an On-One get the threads chased and all surfaces faced as they are ****ful from the factory.

In my opinion a decent do it all hardtail should have some BB drop, having the BB above the axles just makes it corner like crap and on a HT your BB only moves ~2" at full bump.
 
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ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,224
11
MTL
Man this thing looks like a carbon copy of the OG Sov. + it's made of reynolds too... All steel so-called "hardcore" hardtails are somewhat copies of the OG Sov. DW hit the nail on the head with that bike. It's still current and burly as *uck (head angle maybe a bit steep for current standard)

Mine

IMG_1423.jpg
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,212
4,462
I also forgot my 2mx was at 66 most of the time... that thing rode great.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,721
5,604
Zoro it does look very similar but there aren't too many ways to make a tough HT with straight tubes, it also has bent stays for a bit more compliance which is nice. I still have a set of the 2Souls dropouts and damn they are burly, wish I could use em for something.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,224
11
MTL
Zoro it does look very similar but there aren't too many ways to make a tough HT with straight tubes, it also has bent stays for a bit more compliance which is nice. I still have a set of the 2Souls dropouts and damn they are burly, wish I could use em for something.
No doubt. Steel HTs are pretty made out of the "same" mold. As in a proper sloping top tube with a brace for the seat tube for decent seat tube height.

That being said, the 2Soul seems like a pretty nice bike. Would love to try one out. Can't really see from the pic, but the dropouts are adjustable right?

Transition's TransAm is a nice bike too. Saw one in person the other day and was impressed by the overall stout look and niceness of the frame. Not as gucci as a 2Soul, ProductionPrivée or Evil, in terms of the steel used, but I'm sure it's a most excellent bike to own and ride.

To the OP, I'm sure a TransAm could be used for some DH HTing. Slap a low rise wide bar and 50mm stem and bingo! Look at this build right here. Totally ready to be shreded down some nasty trails. It doesn't have a 1.5 headtube, but still, I'm sure it's worth a look. + it can be had for cheap 2nd hand.

 
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xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
my bagger. super fun aggressive am ride. ha is a hair under 65* w/ a 160mm fork. about spot on; with no rear sag hts should run a couple degrees slacker than equivalent squishy bikes.

 

jwick

Chimp
May 19, 2008
60
0
Woodman D-ML. It's got all the checklist but the ISCG tabs. And cough,cough (spam) I have one sitting in a box that needs a good home. Imaculate condition. PM me if you want.

Woodman D-ML 1.jpgWoodman D-ML 2.jpg

Yes thats a 1.5 headtube.
 
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HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,721
5,604
No doubt. Steel HTs are pretty made out of the "same" mold. As in a proper sloping top tube with a brace for the seat tube for decent seat tube height.

That being said, the 2Soul seems like a pretty nice bike. Would love to try one out. Can't really see from the pic, but the dropouts are adjustable right?
Yeah but only 15mm of adjustment, I tried buying some dropouts from Evil ages ago and they fed me some rubbish about public liability, I ended up finding 2souls through the old Aus On-One dealer when getting a new frame under their crash replacement policy.

Here is 2souls Flicker thingy showing other companies frames built wit their DO's
http://www.2soulscycles.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39&Itemid=99&lang=en
 

travis138

Chimp
May 3, 2007
9
0
Seaside, CA
View attachment 110853

I wouldn't race XC on one of those, but they sure look bad ass for DHing!! 83bb 150rear; 45 degree head angle!!! http://www.btr-fabrications.com/
I was looking for a DH hardtail and would have never heard of BTR Fabrications if I hadn't come across your post in this thread. I've just ordered the Belter and I believe it will be the first one in the US. I'll update when I receive it.
 

travis138

Chimp
May 3, 2007
9
0
Seaside, CA
The price is 600 pounds. Exchange rate sucks so I ended up paying just under $1000. Kind of pricey but not unreasonable for a handbuilt frame. You deal directly with the guy who builds your frame and I'm not aware of any other hardtails using the 83mm/150mm spacing so that will help with parts interchangeability if you have other DH bikes.
*edit* it's a 1 1/8 headtube
 
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was?

Monkey
Mar 9, 2010
268
30
Dresden, Germany
I´m not sure about that.
470 axle to crown with a rigid 29er fork, right now I´m at 560mm static with the 26" springy fork at 160mm travel.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,224
11
MTL
I was looking for a DH hardtail and would have never heard of BTR Fabrications if I hadn't come across your post in this thread. I've just ordered the Belter and I believe it will be the first one in the US. I'll update when I receive it.
Wicked! Post pics of it when you receive it!