Kids in downhill biking....your thoughts?

BigBoi · Aug 17, 2012

I see liability.

The trails you mention are not the most difficult and therefore trails where it's easy to carry a lot of speed.

I sincerely fear the result of what would happen if I collided with a 6 year old.

Jimmysal · Aug 17, 2012

The sport is still young, and the resorts haven't quite figured it out yet. Give it time.

Also, liability.

BigBoi · Aug 17, 2012

It would be similar to skiing I suppose. Except visbility on a ski slope is usually better than on a trail in the woods. On other hand, the kid on the ski slope is only wearing a helmet and no other protective gear.

I'm thinking more about coming over a table and seeing a little guy struggling to pick up his bike that just crashed on the other side.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. That's just my initial thought.

jasride · Aug 17, 2012

I dont think there should be a class for 6 yer old downhill racers or riders but A casual weekend could be cool. I always advocate the bmx track for younger riders but a father son weekend is rad no matter what you're doing.

boylagz · Aug 17, 2012

Im all for kids going into riding real young, I wish I did. I can see in the future parks making smaller tracks for kids to ride on (if there arent any), with safety being the no. 1 thing. I can understand older and more experienced riders having concerns with youngsters on the same trail as they are on, even if its an easy trail. Like the gent said above, so easy to pick up speed on smoother trails.
AND yes, that scenario where youre in the air and seeing a kid on the landing scared me...

Pslide · Aug 17, 2012

When they start making DH tracks 100 meters wide, then it will be OK to have 6-year-olds on them. :rolleyes:

Full Trucker · Aug 17, 2012

Here in Colorado we have quite a few younger kids out on the trails at the bike parks, as well as some really little guys racing even. The age of 6 or 7 is not uncommon here. There was a kid on the team I used to help manage that was hitting 6-8' drops on his Kona Stinky by the age of 8... his dad posts here sometimes under the name Doc Gravity. Currently in the Mountain States Cup we have a 6-year-old racing that does struggle a bit in some of the rockier stuff, but is hitting most of the sizeable table tops... and greasing them.

As for safety concerns and the potential for little kids to get "run over", well... it's really normal for Dad's to ride behind their kids, and for safety I think this is best practice without question. And as much as sight lines are more obscure in trees and such (compared to a wide-open ski run) I think everyone is underestimating how far one can actually see ahead. It's no different than riding on multi-direction, multi-use trails on your trail bike, really. There could be a hiker around any blind corner, and yes there are close calls but more often than not there aren't. In a bike park, all riders tend to be riding in the same direction, and you mostly know who's dropped in before you on any given trail. The responsibility of keeping smaller kids safe in the bike park is going to have to be put on the parents, at least in part if not all. There is no way parents should be letting a 6-year-old rip down DH trails solo mission style. Parents should know the lay of the land i.e. what each trail's features are, and not just "ginuea pig" them with their little one in tow. That's just irresponsible parenting, really.

Also, if you're at the bike park going mach looney down a green- or blue-rated trail at full-on race pace, and it's not a race weekend, aren't your actions putting other riders at risk? Especially at the bike parks that cater to beginner and intermediate riders, there could be any size or shape of Texan just around that next corner you're about to plow into. Safety for the little ones (and others really) should be completely placed on those other people.

Also, what happens when a rider goes down, ANY rider? Usually that person's friends stop traffic and warn oncoming riders there's someone down. Should be no different with a little kid, especially if there is a parent present.

Saying kids should be allowed in the bike parks, or should only be allowed on the DH trails when they're 100 meters wide is kinda silly. Getting kids stoked on riding can be done safely, and something the riding community SHOULD be doing. FSM knows we've got enough Cheeto-eating, mouth-breather NASCAR fans in this country already.

ALEXIS_DH · Aug 17, 2012

i probably wouldnt be very happy if my kid wanted to ride downhill (as in full blown downhill).
all mountain is ok, but full blown downhill is not something i think is ok for a 6yo. for an experienced 14-15yo all mountain rider, the switch to downhill is ok.... but 6yo is far too young to be on a real downhill trail.

he might get plowed by another rider coming too hot after a blind turn, or landed on top if he goes around a blind jump/drop.

Kntr · Aug 17, 2012

My 9 yo daughter has been riding DH at Whistler and Silver Star for 3 years.

Try and tell these guys they shouldn't be riding serious DH.

http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/The-Bikes-of-Whistlers-Super-Groms-Jackson-Goldstone-and-Finn-Finestone,4141/Slideshow,0/bturman,109?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=addthis#.UCPDyJicTBg.facebook

Jim Mac · Aug 17, 2012

I am beginning to go the opposite direction. As my 5 year old is getting more into riding competitively, I am gravitating back to BMX racing as a shared experience. As much as I love my local hills (Plattekill, Jiminy, Mt. Snow, etc.), there is nothing there for a 5 year old. The Whiteface kids DS race was awesome as was their kids pumptrack competition, but that's a once a year gig.

EDIT: as much as I feel that BMX racing feels a bit 'stuck in time', it is very, very kid friendly.

bfrich · Aug 17, 2012

Riding bikes is good, any type of bike....BMX and XC riding help develop the skills needed to ride downhill with confidence. Most importantly at the young age of 6 it should be nothing but low key and fun.

Full Trucker · Aug 17, 2012

ALEXIS_DH said:
i probably wouldnt be very happy if my kid wanted to ride downhill (as in full blown downhill).
all mountain is ok, but full blown downhill is not something i think is ok for a 6yo. for an experienced 14-15yo all mountain rider, the switch to downhill is ok.... but 6yo is far too young to be on a real downhill trail.

he might get plowed by another rider coming too hot after a blind turn, or landed on top if he goes around a blind jump/drop.

Jim Mac said:
I am beginning to go the opposite direction. As my 5 year old is getting more into riding competitively, I am gravitating back to BMX racing as a shared experience. As much as I love my local hills (Plattekill, Jiminy, Mt. Snow, etc.), there is nothing there for a 5 year old. The Whiteface kids DS race was awesome as was their kids pumptrack competition, but that's a once a year gig.

EDIT: as much as I feel that BMX racing feels a bit 'stuck in time', it is very, very kid friendly.

I also want to say that I fully support both of the above posts. As much as I have seen little ones out on the DH hill, what I like about these two above is that they are taking their parental responsibilities very seriously, and making decisions that they are comfortable with. As much as you or I or whoever may think it's fine for kids to be shredding the DH bike park, the parents should be the ones doing the parenting, and making the final call. Strong work.

BigBoi · Aug 17, 2012

kickstand said:
I was looking for that after I started this thread, those kids can out rip half the guys who post regularly in the DH forum. My son isn't anywhere near that level, but it cracks me up people think they are going to collide with a young kid on the trails.

I've been mountain biking for over 20+ years. In all the years I have ridden I can not ONCE think of a time I came up on the backside of someone so hot and heavy that I almost crashed into them. Do you guys not look ahead of you at all? Or are you guys that much faster then everyone that you should be on the WC circuit?

I can understand catching up to a 6 year old kid quickly, but waiting for 10-30 seconds to allow him (and his dad) time to find a place to pull off really shouldn't be that big of a deal....

I wonder where you guys are riding that I'm not where there is so much danger of riders crashing into each other because they catch them so fast they can't stop in time.

I'm not sure why it would crack you up, I think running over a child would have the opposite on most people. If you're saying you've never almost hit another rider, well I'm jealous of your privately owned mountain.

Kids often stop, they fall over, they have trouble picking up their bikes and they are less than half the size of the average person making them harder to see.

I'm almost 300lbs w/ bike and gear included. Assume I'm going 20mph and...well let's just say it could be tragic.

It sounds like you are very responsible riding with your son so the possible scenario I'm visualizing would be highly unlikely, but also terrifying.

But in the case of the video with those groms, I should be the one worried about getting run over.

jasride · Aug 17, 2012

kickstand said:
All good points.

jasride what reasoning do you have against classes for kids to ride? Most of the XC rides/races I have attended or looked into have kids classes, why shouldn't DH?

I'm just looking at it from a fundamentals aspect. I still and will always stand by the fact that your basic bmx track has and always will provide a young or newer rider the best way to learn the fundamentals of riding a bike. On a similar aspect I don't think kids should even be clipped into spd pedals until a set amount of basic fundamentals are established. Lots of kids at the bmx track cant even balance on the gate and yet have their parent holding the rear wheel behind them to help get them going. They are still clipped in for that "advantage" and i guess keeping up with the competition.

Brown belt before the black belt, that's all.

But progression is cool no matter how you look at it. And there will always be a few who are above everyone else just like those little rippers riding dh.

I'm really all for just doing what you want. And enjoying it with your kids. So shred it up this weekend!

BigBoi · Aug 17, 2012

I don't see the similarities with skiing/snowboarding. Width of the run, contrast to the snow, sliding when you fall instead of bouncing, hidden obstacles, rocks, trees. The only similarity I see is the ownership of the mountain.

I've almost hit and been hit by another rider after a crash on several occasions. Perhaps I'm really fast? Or I crash really fast?

I'm not against kids riding DH at all. I wish it was around when I was a child, I'm just scared about what would happen if I ran into one of them.

Full Trucker · Aug 17, 2012

BMX is a great way to get kids on bikes and get them comfortable riding and learning the basics, no question.

That said, I side with kickstand: I still don't see why there couldn't be classes for younger riders at DH races. I feel a "12 and Under" class is definitely feasible for DH racing, provided the parents scope the track with their little ones and make sure the kid's abilities are up to the track. MSC runs a "10 & Under" class and the only race that gets more than 1 kid is usually the tamest of the tracks. But those kids have a BLAST when they're out there. The Junior 11-12 class has quite a few more kids that race all the courses. And honestly a DH race is a decent venue to have a kid riding solo for the first time: the course is usually lined with spectators, course marshals, and volunteers in case something happens. Plus, they're starting at the same time as other kids their age, so an adult coming up on them quickly is darn near impossible.

But bottom line is it will always be about making the right decision for you and your kids as a parent.

Raingauge · Aug 17, 2012

Don't ride like a douche nozzle on green runs and it won't be a problem. If you're so super fast go ride black runs and if you're not in control enough to avoid another rider than you should slow down.

I've seen lots of little rippers under 10 riding the parks here in the last few years. We took my buddies 9 year old daughter out in July and rode green runs. There were a handful of other kids younger than her out riding too.

ALEXIS_DH · Aug 17, 2012

BigBoi said:
I don't see the similarities with skiing/snowboarding. Width of the run, contrast to the snow, sliding when you fall instead of bouncing, hidden obstacles, rocks, trees. The only similarity I see is the ownership of the mountain.

I've almost hit and been hit by another rider after a crash on several occasions. Perhaps I'm really fast? Or I crash really fast?

I'm not against kids riding DH at all. I wish it was around when I was a child, I'm just scared about what would happen if I ran into one of them.

i´ve run into people on the ground at least three times. and i have been plowed (hard enough to leave a mark) at least once.

i do not see a similarity between skiing and downhill biking.
downhill on its own, is a very risky activity... in my mind, as risky as most forms of motorsports, skydiving or mountaineering. none of them, recreational activities suitable for children or newcomers.

downhill is a subset of mountain biking. usually reserved for experienced, and relatively faster, riders. the tracks are usually technical and above the skill of most cyclists. if anything, skiing in general is comparable to general cross country cycling, and downhill would be more akin to heli-skiing, double diamond riding, or giant slalom.

ski and ski parks, in general terms, have a broader demographics. the tracks range from mellow to gnarly (full blown downhill tracks are usually gnarly and gnarlier) and there are usually many lines to pick from, instead of one or two.

so, its not only a matter of downhill being a risky activity on its own... but also a matter of relative skill.
in a racetrack, drivers are separeted in groups of similar level. having a much slower driver in the field is normally regarded as a safety hazard. similarly, when riding downhill..... its not a good idea to have inexperienced riders in a downhill track, since most riders there are usually fairly advanced cyclists, and there is normally one or two grooves at most.

i dont have kids, but honestly speaking, i´d be horrified if my 6 to 9 nephews ask to join me in my downhill rides in the andes (with the exposed roads) or at our local dh tracks (with blind turns, jumps and drops). i routinely hit 45mph in my rides, usually riding over sketchy ground... my brake distances are very large, and the margin for error is small enough as it is.

Kntr · Aug 17, 2012

I ride right behind my daughter. No chance of anyone hitting her. If all you fast guys are riding green trails it's time to try harder trails.

I've been riding 16 years and have never hit another rider or even come close. If I catch another rider I let them know I'm behind them. If someone catches me I pull over. I have over 100 days of riding at resorts like Whistler, Silver Star, and Sun Peaks. If you hit a rider, no matter the age, it's your fault. Slow down a notch on busy trails and rail when they are clear.

ALEXIS_DH · Aug 17, 2012

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Downhill+cycling+risky+adrenalin+boost+study+shows/7062765/story.html

A study by four B.C. and American researchers showed 898 riders suffered nearly 2,000 injuries in a single, five-month cycling season when riders can load their bikes on chairlifts and then ride down the gnarly terrain.

More than 12 per cent of the injuries were potentially threatening to life and/or limb. Broken bones, concussions, internal bleeding, organ dam-age, and even a case of quadriplegia, were some of the more serious injuries during the 2009 season at the resort.
...
Dr. Annie Gareau, an emergency room specialist at the Whistler clinic and co-author of the study, said a general rule of thumb is that one in 1,000 skiers is injured, one in 100 snowboarders, and one in 10 downhill cyclists. That makes downhill mountain biking far more dangerous than skiing and highlights the need for more research on safety equipment and risk avoidance measures, she said.

with our without traffic. its a very dangerous sport on its own. its orders of magnitude more dangerous than snow sports.
like i said, i think its too dangerous for small children.

kazlx · Aug 17, 2012

I 100% encourage young riders to get out there and do not mind slowing up or waiting to pass. How else do they learn? There are plenty of jump trails that are blacks or double blacks that really aren't 'difficult' to ride. They may require skills to clear all the jumps and flow the trail, but the trails can easily be ridden.

The last time we were at Mammoth, we were sitting at the top of a jump line trail and there were a couple people sitting around chit chatting. A kid that was maybe 8 rolled up with his dad, waited for a second and then turned and said "Can I go now dad?". Contrary to what I was expecting, the kid proceeded to clear a roughly 15' table in a manner that would make a lot of riders jealous. Every time I go out, I seem to see kids younger and younger out ripping it up.

I hope that my future kids have the desire to want to get into something young, full DH or not. I think extra care should be taken while they are young to minimize risks, but there's no reason they can't learn to do it.

MrPlow · Aug 17, 2012

In Australia bike parks are non existent really. I live on top of the hill and trails are 2 minutes from my door so I can take my 4 year old boy for a ride down the trails. I never even thought about the parks not letting kids ride. Had planc to go to Whistler with the family in a few years. Is Whistler the same? No kids on trails?

downhill mike · Aug 17, 2012

At the Whiteface Mountain Bike park we offer discounted lift tickets for 12 and under and free lift tickets to 6 and under. We usually just comp the 6 year old a bike & pads too. There are a total of 3 beginner trails that anyone can ride. It's important that these beginner trails are easy enough to remain seated the entire way down. It can be hard for someone that young to stand the whole way down. The only thing we require is that they have used a bike with hand brakes before. In the last 2 seasons we have had more 6 year olds than the 8 seasons before that.

shredden. · Aug 17, 2012

Here in Australia we have an under 13 category in the local state series (around 300 - 400 riders each round).

There are a lot of kids under the age of 10, of a field of 20 there is probably half 7/8/9 year olds.

I think its a good thing, I am 16 and generally podium in open B grade - I dont find the little kids an issue at all, they are always quick to jump off the side of the track when they hear a big bike coming up from behind.

EDIT: Please note that I live a 30 hour drive from MrPlow, up north the race scene is probably 10% what it is here aha!

shredden. · Aug 17, 2012

And also, why do you crazy canadians write "transport" as "trans-port"

downhill mike · Aug 17, 2012

kickstand said:
Agree.

Thats what I am talking about!! I wish you guys were closer....I may have to plan a trip to Whiteface next season so him and I can ride!

seven springs location, size of bike park, and trails are EXACTLY what I am after in a trip with my son, I can keep the costs down, get a variety of runs in he can enjoy, etc. Yet he's too young to ride there.

Jim Mac · Aug 17, 2012

downhill mike said:
At the Whiteface Mountain Bike park we offer discounted lift tickets for 12 and under and free lift tickets to 6 and under. We usually just comp the 6 year old a bike & pads too. There are a total of 3 beginner trails that anyone can ride. It's important that these beginner trails are easy enough to remain seated the entire way down. It can be hard for someone that young to stand the whole way down. The only thing we require is that they have used a bike with hand brakes before. In the last 2 seasons we have had more 6 year olds than the 8 seasons before that.

I stand corrected!

William42 · Aug 17, 2012

The only time I have ever run over or crashed into somebody (and vice versa) was in the middle of a train and they (or I) crashed and went down, and there either wasn't a line or wasn't time to go around them. All on blacks or double blacks. Maybe things are different here, because the blues and greens aren't worth riding if you move at a moderate clip, but I honestly can't even comprehend somebody going so fast and out of control on a blue or green that they run over not one, but two people.

Anybody who is suggesting otherwise is silly. Were not talking about 6 year olds shredding down blacks and double blacks in the middle of a train of people going balls out. Were talking about 6 year olds riding in front of their parents on blues and greens. I hope to get my kid into biking if they show any interest, and hopefully by the time my kids are that age more resorts will have caught on that mountain bikes are their future.

epic · Aug 18, 2012

6-years old at a "downhill" park. Actually, I think of it as "lift-served" because of the connotations of calling it DH.

9-years old.

Kids in downhill biking....your thoughts?

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Frikkin newb!!!

Tirelessly Awesome

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Frikkin newb!!!

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Frikkin newb!!!

Monkey

Tirelessly Awesome

Turbo Monkey

Tirelessly Awesome

Patches O'Houlihan

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Chimp

Chimp

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN

fork ways

Turbo Monkey