Ha, that's pretty funny. It's a simple task for anyone with a durometer to find out the hardness of the compounds. You have to understand that when speaking to someone at Interbike, that person is usually a sales guy.
Butchers are freakin awesome tires. I just found out they're doing some smaller SX casing ones now. Those are going on my trail bike next year when I need tires.
I wouldn't use the SX casing, it's 50 duro all the way through while the DH casing has a 70a baselayer that supports the knobs a lot better. It rolls faster, lasts longer and grips better because the knobs don't deform as easily.
Interesting. Weren't they developed for Cali style trails?
cause, meet effect
A whole bunch of pros were on them at the South Africa World Cup this year. They were a different compound no doubt, but I didn't see them causing any issues in high-speed (like really for real high-speed) corners. Hart for instance.
Supposed to be uniform all the way through. Which is probably a lot of the reason that they feel more like old slow reazay tires to me since I've been riding the stiffer 3C ones for so long now. I remember the STs used to feel stiffer to me than the slow reazays but just fell apart. I just took an ST tire off one of my bikes because the edges of the knobs were way worn......not because they'd ripped off. Which is new to me
And since I dont really ride sloppy conditions I dont feel the need for the softest compounds to ride with.I rode a Hans Dampf as a front for AM riding last winter and early this spring. It sucked. I trimmed the intermediate knobs out...and it was marginally better, but the outer row of knobs isn't stiff enough really bite.
ah yes, the mysterious BlackBox tire program. nobody knows how they work. (®, TM, ©SRAM 2012)
I am reading your tire rants and tests and often your experiences are similar to mine (minus the Nevegal). Taking your principles on tire design and looking at the Hans Dampf I thought that the tire must suck. Then I read reviews and talked to local guys and they all loved them. Shirk007 hates them.
I had a weak point in January and was talked into them when picking the build kit for my AM bike. I don't think they had any DHF EXO 3c's at the time. Slow speed wet winter shore xc night riding they were not horrible, but once things dried out and riding in day light it was pretty easy to over ride them.
This is like a different language to me
I did this mod to an Excavator and it helped.
Ha! I've ridden both those tires extensively! and they weren't great, but not horrible. There's better out there for sure. I hear what you mean about this being the DH forum, but you've got to ride the terrain that you've got. Over here, I have very little in the way of sustained DH. I'm lucky that there's a few hills within 3 hours drive that spin lifts, and that's what I have my DH bike for, but the bulk of my riding time is pedally up and down.... I realize your thread has been drifted from being about a gravity-fed DH tire to talking about xc tires, and for contributing to that drift I apologize!This is like a different language to me
Every tire is a gravity tire. All kinds of shlt works at 'slow' and 'intermediate' speeds. But who the hell wants to hang out there? This the dh forum dammit! We're not up there just for the view!
Besides......I guess I'm just getting old but that hans knob vomit approach has existed in many incarnations from several other manufacturers for eons. The theory goes something like this "just throw a bunch of shlt on there that faces every single direction and by golly.......somethin's gonna grip somewhere!"
Yeah, the Vert Pro is not a bad tire. The knobs are shaped such that they penetrate soft soils well, but are stiff and plentiful enough to not squirm on hardpack. Overall very grippy. But I don't push tires as hard into corners on my trail bikes as I do on my DH bike. I wouldn't want a DH version of the Vert Pro, at least not for hardpack.
Yes, although I didn't design the Ardent, I knew it would make a great XC tire if it were only lighter. In addition to reducing the amount of stagger of the shoulder knobs, I added transition knobs for every center knob, and siped the center knobs to improve climbing traction on wet rocks and roots. The test samples turned out a little too heavy, though (the base layer of rubber is a little too thick.) Hopefully they'll reduce some weight before the tire goes into production.
So its a better trail tyre for a retarded plough DH rider?
Thanks for chiming in. Looks like a good improvement.
Possibly, though they'll most likely pack up a little more in wet muddy conditions due to the tighter tread pattern. And the center knob height is slightly lower than the Ardent 2.25.So its a better trail tyre for a retarded plough DH rider?
The High Roller II 26x2.3 and 29x2.3 tubeless ready Exo tires should be available soon, though I can't say when exactly.I do like the High Roller II EXO kevlar blah blah tyre I have on at the moment, its just a tad heavy, hoping there is a 2.25ish version out soon,
Now I actually have a DH bike running again I can make my Sanction a proper trail bike, not the "one bike to rule it all" it has become.
Lighter tyres that don't suck will help, losing rotating weight is good blah blah etc etc yadda yadda yabba yabba doo!!
dude, you really ought to check out the kenda happy medium too (26 and 29). rolls, pedals and brakes like a small block/racing ralph tire, but has super smooth transition and corners like a real DH tire.Yeah, the Vert Pro is not a bad tire. The knobs are shaped such that they penetrate soft soils well, but are stiff and plentiful enough to not squirm on hardpack. Overall very grippy. But I don't push tires as hard into corners on my trail bikes as I do on my DH bike. I wouldn't want a DH version of the Vert Pro, at least not for hardpack.
I think the "channel" theory works based on good design principles, especially for DH bikes. But I don't think it's necessarily the end-all theory that works for every bike/condition/rider.
For example, I've just bought a set of these for my new 29er hardtail, and I expect I'm going to be pleasantly surprised despite their non-Wooian design. Or maybe I'll eat my hat, we'll see.
More on this please! Very interested in the Happy Medium but almost no word on it. I was worried the middle bit, despite being semi slick was still soft rubber and would still be kind of slow. But apart from the it seems like the perfect tire for a pedally track, which we have a lot of. I've never ridden a semi-slick before though, let alone in DH.
Can you re do the dhf and make it like the dhr 2. I don't want to micro cut the dhr2. I'm lazy...... I think, after reading woos rants and looking at how I ride and my tires wear, and when I get lose..... That if you took the knobs on the dhf and switched sides and rotated them so the angle would ramp into the knobs. This is for cornering of course. The tire would be sick. So just like the dhr 2 without the breaking blocks.
I'm slack, old, and don't really like riding in mud anyway!
I shall await the arrival of the Tubeless ready 2.3 version with baited breath!
