It might not be the TT it might also be a too wide bar for his build.
Advantages/Disadvantages of a longer TT
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For me i think of turning on a bike much as i would when i skirace, since i need to get the front to bite in first i need to be over the front of the skies. This is what is tricky to both biking and skiing, to get enough weight to get the proper bite but not loosing the back end. This also depends alot on the arc of the turn, a short turn compared to a long, will require quite different techniques. In sl and gs you can get away with more of this drifting to help initiate the turn faster whereas in sg and dh you want to applie more even pressure over the ski and create a nice wide arc. This is much the same on a bike, more over the front on short turns and more centered around wider open turns.
In short though if you have already kind of set your mental approach to get further back over the rear to keep from washing out you will be to far back to get good front end traction, so if you just move over the front a bit more from how you are riding today it should get you closer to the sweet spot.
In short though if you have already kind of set your mental approach to get further back over the rear to keep from washing out you will be to far back to get good front end traction, so if you just move over the front a bit more from how you are riding today it should get you closer to the sweet spot.
Answer bars. 1.5 rise uncut sound too wide?
Good thoughts. Its really only turns with no support that get me. If its got a catch or berm i am usually good. Its the awkward flat turn that you cant dab a foot in because its too rocky that tend to bite me
I dunno.youre a conundrum.All I can see is your droopy elbows.Maybe make sure your looking up and through those type of corners enough,even if it makes you feel sketchy.Most of us tend to tighten up and look down in front of us in the sections we don't feel confident in.Mine tends to be in social situations where I don't know what to talk about and stare at the ground,standing in a corner.
Solid advice.Hiding pit hair
Man steeze
Fast guys don't care about hiding their armpit hair. Them bows is UP!
Get our elbows up. It will force you into an aggressive position and give your body a chance to react to the terrain. With your elbows up you can center your weight and drive your outside/cornering knobs into the ground for traction. Stop taking a foot off and leaning with the bike, you're doing nothing to make your bike grab traction.
Put up some cones in your yard and work on technique even if it's slow, then move to the trail.
Be less scared, have more fun.
Well i think you could do alot by changing your mental approach because that is were most of the speed will come from when doing anything. It is similar to almost everything else in life, recognize beforehand that you will fail and you most certainly will. So start by riding turns while just focusing on riding the turn as you really want to, but start slow and build slowly to find your limit. It would probably be really good if you just go out and practice ridning switch backs on like a wide fireroad or something. Keep changing up the layout of the course, like different radius etc. This is good to do regrdless, it will be good practice and with timing even more so. Then you can try different setups, bike related or rider related, to find what works best.
You shouldnt have to dab a foot all to often, some corners it will definietly be faster but mostly riding foot up is faster. I would suspect that the foot dabing is a consequence of low confidence in your cornering thechnique. I did some exstensive testing between riding flats, clips and foot up or foot down through 2 corners with timing and the results was quite convincing, to me they where at least. Anyone interested they can ask for more details on what I found.
I hope you're not serious with the assumption that they should fit everyone. I'm a hair under 5'11'' but I'm not very broad in my shoulders so my 780mm chromag is too wide and it creates a funky position for me. Maybe it's the case for you too. Assuming that a bar good for your friend is good for you is a bad idea.
Another technique that a lot of riders who don't also ride moto don't use is pushing and pulling on the handlebars in different planes vs their center of mass. It seems like a lot of riders treat their handlebars like steering wheels, always at 9 and 3 and equal distance from their ears and steering like they're steering a car or skis through a turn. If you look at Gwin through corners he's pushing his bars down to where the upside bar is chest level giving a much greater lean angle to the bike while keeping traction with the wheels, while also pushing/pulling handlebars through the turn. A longer TT with shorter stem combination makes this technique easier while also using a wider handlebar.
Im going to have to give alot of these ideas a try, went out last night and messed around on the street a little bit with the elbows up, feels really foreign to me, but not necessarily bad. My next question is should i be riding like that all the time, or just corners? Ive gotten to a real good level in my riding, but im almost always 3% off the winner, and im trying to chip away at that. Elbows up all the time? even though it feels really goofy?
good or bad posture on these? The main reason im asking is that i always found my riding to be pretty good, but I am wondering if i have been riding "wrong" the whole time, cant find a single photo where my elbows are really up
good or bad posture on these? The main reason im asking is that i always found my riding to be pretty good, but I am wondering if i have been riding "wrong" the whole time, cant find a single photo where my elbows are really up
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I usually tend to ride elbows down often like you do and I consider my riding to be pretty decent as well... BUT, this has mostly been after a confidence shattering knee injury. I notice in old pictures on bikes I were very confident on and times when I was riding exceptionally well, my elbows were up. I hate to say it but I think it's connected to how committed you are. Commitment also means railing corners!
Bending your elbows is nice, but where are your hips, knees, wrists, shoulders and back in relation to your elbows in different planes of attack? Solve that equation and you'll look like Sam Hill. Remember that you're making the bike do the work, you should be using it's energy to get you in the correct positions.
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The last one is the only one that looks right to me.I still think you look scrunched up.A longer reach bike will allow you to get in the right position without feeling like the bars are in your gut.
Getting more tt with an adjustable stem and rolling your bars around a bit,you should be able to find a sweet spot that is between 1/2" and 1" from where you are right now.
If you actually did decide to do this,you may also need to tweak your suspension a bit,too.
I run a pretty stiff and progressive front and a softer,more linear rear.
You seriously need to listen to me and quit ignoring me.Just do what I say.
Getting more tt with an adjustable stem and rolling your bars around a bit,you should be able to find a sweet spot that is between 1/2" and 1" from where you are right now.
If you actually did decide to do this,you may also need to tweak your suspension a bit,too.
I run a pretty stiff and progressive front and a softer,more linear rear.
You seriously need to listen to me and quit ignoring me.Just do what I say.
I try and do it all of the time (I have just started trying to ride like this too so it take a lot of conscious thought).
In your current position all of your weight is being supported by your quads and your shoulders while your core muscles and posterior chain aren't really doing anything. Lifting your elbows up will help you engage both of these muscle groups and you will find that you use a great deal less energy which can be put into pedaling etc.
As for the flat turns:
The key there is leaning your bike while keeping your center of gravity close to the contact point between your tire and the ground.
Go outside and practice turning in the tightest circle you can by laying the bike over and keeping your body upright. There are 2 components to this; body movement and weight distribution;
Body movement: Start by leaning the bike over, as the bike leans you will notice that you have to counter balance this by keeping your upper body almost vertical and just bending at the knees and rotating them in the direction you are turning (your hips should follow as your knees bend further away). As with all turns, if you look through the turn your body will follow and this movement will come naturally (you should pretty much be looking over your shoulder if you are getting the bike over far enough).
Weight distribution: With your arms you should pushing the handlebar down on the inside of the turn and pulling it up on the outside end of the bar. If you are keeping your elbows up and bending at the knees then your arms will almost be pulled into this position naturally.
With your feet you should be doing the exact opposite, weight your outside foot just as you would riding an off camber section and use your inside foot to help lean the bike.
Sam hill in a bermed corner, notice his outside leg is straight and his upper body is on the same angle as he is pushing his weight in a straight line into the wall of the vertical berm rather than perpendicular down into the ground.
Now compare it to this picture of him on a flat corner and you can see both knees bend, hips rotated and hands weighting the handle bars as I described above. Also note the angle his upper body in on compared to the last picture. Here he is bringing his center of gravity in a lot closer to the tire/ground contact point.
Hopefully this all makes sense and isn't too much to read.
/nerd analysis
Just before we go any further, I want to rule out (or in) whether this bike is the correct fit. We are going to try to do it as "scientific" as we can. I probably have poor posture regardless, but i want to make sure that i am not trying to "band-aid" a bigger problem.
Relaxed sitting position
standing up flat ground
elbows up (as best i can)
how i normally ride (best i can)
on an angle
angle "attack position"
Fun fact-the M demo 8 i came from was 430 reach, zerode is 393.
Relaxed sitting position
standing up flat ground
elbows up (as best i can)
how i normally ride (best i can)
on an angle
angle "attack position"
Fun fact-the M demo 8 i came from was 430 reach, zerode is 393.
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Like this, just ride like this.
on an angle
on an angle
Jesus christ mountain biking just isn't this hard.
Go smell yourself some cocaine and get angry for fvck's sake.
Go smell yourself some cocaine and get angry for fvck's sake.
Oh my god,LOL.....I knew it was coming ...and still laughed so hard I got spit all over my iPad .
Seriously,you're either afraid of something on you're handlebars,or you have an unresolved,bio- mechanical issue regarding your elbows.Like this, just ride like this.
on an angle
I see you have 2 computer screens.Go put a picture of Aaron Gwin cornering on one and one of these informational pics of you on the other.If you need an answer as to what to do beyond that,you're just looking for attention .
Don't get me wrong.Im thoroughly enjoying this ,but now you're just being silly.
"pissing on my top tube" -this has no relation to reality whatsoever if I ever look like this in the woods, please got put me out of my misery. If I had tighter pants, and a campy hat, this would be "waiting at a stoplight"
"winding up and about to hate fck my top tube" Also "here is how I plan to break my wrists on my next ride"
Here I am scared shltless of the reality that is downhill mountain biking. I even jump like this because I own a pimped out hardtail with a funny seat that I haven't figured out how to ride yet
Here's how people on 29ers ride anything over 5 degrees
angle "attack position" or more realistically "how to put a gopro on my rear tire and see if I have colon cancer"
I have no idea how I shot this photo but it's pretty friggin cool. I dare you to do this in your living room with a chair that has such a sick pattern on it.
Keep watching. This one is an animated GIF. The poo hits my tire any second now.
And you're a fvcking gorilla. A larger size of that magic switchypoo frame you're on wouldn't be a bad thing.
"winding up and about to hate fck my top tube" Also "here is how I plan to break my wrists on my next ride"
Here I am scared shltless of the reality that is downhill mountain biking. I even jump like this because I own a pimped out hardtail with a funny seat that I haven't figured out how to ride yet
Here's how people on 29ers ride anything over 5 degrees
angle "attack position" or more realistically "how to put a gopro on my rear tire and see if I have colon cancer"
I have no idea how I shot this photo but it's pretty friggin cool. I dare you to do this in your living room with a chair that has such a sick pattern on it.
Keep watching. This one is an animated GIF. The poo hits my tire any second now.
Even funner fact. Anyone riding a medium frame from specialized thinking they ride medium frames is delusional. They're riding a large.
And you're a fvcking gorilla. A larger size of that magic switchypoo frame you're on wouldn't be a bad thing.
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looks like we are in for a long winter
Can you do one in the house of an off camber corner,with your foot out?
...and please "rip the ****" out of it.I wanna get the whole picture,here.I may have missed something.
...and please "rip the ****" out of it.I wanna get the whole picture,here.I may have missed something.
this.looks like we are in for a long winter
It was 70 degrees here today. Rained about 3 inches last week the rocks are prime.looks like we are in for a long winter
Okay serious answer:
In those pictures you very willingly put up publicly, the ones of you actually riding and not the livingroom stuff, you look pretty uncomfortable on your bike. You look like you're scared of what's coming at you. I don't know the jumps and I don't know the turns, but in a lot of them it looks like you're in the ass over the rear survival pose. This has its place for sure but not in the majority of what you're experiencing on a trail, not some skidder ass fall line on way too steep of a hill sections anyway....which as I understand it, diablo doesn't have any of anyway.
You have to get comfortable riding over the middle of the bike. This takes years for some people and about 5 seconds for the genetic freaks that get on mountainbikes like that gwin guy. Staying centered allows you to weight the front and rear wheels proportionally. In most cases, this is how you handle your bicycle. From that position you can pump, you can move the front or rear, and you can preload or suck up either end of the bike. There's a 'feel' to the thing that it doesn't look like you have. You have to be able to react to what your bike feels like. You can't tell dick of what's happening with the front end of your bike if all your weight is all over the rear end. That only tells you what one end is doing and you're going to push your front wheel all over the place and wash out exactly as you've described.
You own a dirtjumper. Get comfortable standing in the middle of the thing moving fast around turns without the complexity of weird shapes and rocks and sticks and stuff. If you've got a good place to ride, the turns are built so that you can ride through them completely neutral......as in literally doing nothing but standing on the bike and looking through the exit. A downhill bike is no different. You have 8 freaking inches of suspension up there and big sticky tires to deal with natural terrain.
That whole 'elbows out' crap is a side effect, not a means to an end. You need to start riding your bike centered in a way that your elbows end up just being 'out'. Sticking them out deliberately just makes you look like some canadian freeride fag sliding his back wheel around trying to look fast rather than be fast.
Just ride your bike faster. Literally just ride your bike faster. You might eat shlt but you'll know why you're eating shlt. As in "my front wheel slid out". That means weight it more. Stiffen up your front suspension if you need to but the reality is that sometimes you just need to weight the front of your bike. This is incredibly easy from a centered position. You need to develop that 'feel' for what the bike is doing and what you need to do with it. Just fvcking figure it out. Ride the same sections at your hill that you already know like the back of your hand but faster. You will develop that feel of what you need to do to maintain control. Once you have that, it doesn't matter what size frame you have.....because you will adjust your technique to obtain that feel. Understanding what the bike is doing and how you direct it is FAR more important than what size it is. Once you know exactly what to do your bike, you tell OTHER people what size you want, because it's a preference, not a mandate of how you will ride your own bike.
Make sense?
In those pictures you very willingly put up publicly, the ones of you actually riding and not the livingroom stuff, you look pretty uncomfortable on your bike. You look like you're scared of what's coming at you. I don't know the jumps and I don't know the turns, but in a lot of them it looks like you're in the ass over the rear survival pose. This has its place for sure but not in the majority of what you're experiencing on a trail, not some skidder ass fall line on way too steep of a hill sections anyway....which as I understand it, diablo doesn't have any of anyway.
You have to get comfortable riding over the middle of the bike. This takes years for some people and about 5 seconds for the genetic freaks that get on mountainbikes like that gwin guy. Staying centered allows you to weight the front and rear wheels proportionally. In most cases, this is how you handle your bicycle. From that position you can pump, you can move the front or rear, and you can preload or suck up either end of the bike. There's a 'feel' to the thing that it doesn't look like you have. You have to be able to react to what your bike feels like. You can't tell dick of what's happening with the front end of your bike if all your weight is all over the rear end. That only tells you what one end is doing and you're going to push your front wheel all over the place and wash out exactly as you've described.
You own a dirtjumper. Get comfortable standing in the middle of the thing moving fast around turns without the complexity of weird shapes and rocks and sticks and stuff. If you've got a good place to ride, the turns are built so that you can ride through them completely neutral......as in literally doing nothing but standing on the bike and looking through the exit. A downhill bike is no different. You have 8 freaking inches of suspension up there and big sticky tires to deal with natural terrain.
That whole 'elbows out' crap is a side effect, not a means to an end. You need to start riding your bike centered in a way that your elbows end up just being 'out'. Sticking them out deliberately just makes you look like some canadian freeride fag sliding his back wheel around trying to look fast rather than be fast.
Just ride your bike faster. Literally just ride your bike faster. You might eat shlt but you'll know why you're eating shlt. As in "my front wheel slid out". That means weight it more. Stiffen up your front suspension if you need to but the reality is that sometimes you just need to weight the front of your bike. This is incredibly easy from a centered position. You need to develop that 'feel' for what the bike is doing and what you need to do with it. Just fvcking figure it out. Ride the same sections at your hill that you already know like the back of your hand but faster. You will develop that feel of what you need to do to maintain control. Once you have that, it doesn't matter what size frame you have.....because you will adjust your technique to obtain that feel. Understanding what the bike is doing and how you direct it is FAR more important than what size it is. Once you know exactly what to do your bike, you tell OTHER people what size you want, because it's a preference, not a mandate of how you will ride your own bike.
Make sense?
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Get a 50cm length of rope, tie your helmet jaw piece to the stem.
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Kidwoo is just killing it on Ridemonkey these days. And to think it was only a few years ago that he was still riding with his visor down over his eyes. Pay attention, Demo 9, and set that armpit hair free!
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I ride with my visor as low as it can go, could that be the reason I am crap on a bike? I have had someone tell me that we aren't on moto's so I should raise my visor, is this the same as you can't ride a BMX properly if you aren't in skinnies?
Get a larger frame. You are definitely to tall for this frame.
Stiffen up your forks. That did the trick for me. I had always the feeling of going OTB, because my fork was diving too much. Now I ride with 15 - 20% sag and can hold a far more neutral position on the bike.
Stiffen up your forks. That did the trick for me. I had always the feeling of going OTB, because my fork was diving too much. Now I ride with 15 - 20% sag and can hold a far more neutral position on the bike.
That would explain the low fitness and a broken finger I recently encountered. So visor up, adapt the mongolian rape and pillage bike possition and i'm ready to win me some worldcups.
One of the best quotes I read here on ridemonkey, pretty much sums everything up.
Also in one of his pictures in the living room, butt over the rear tire I can see he is hanging on for dear life.
It's Jersey. You would be scared too
Unsure if I'll be adding anything to the thread that's not been said before, but your TT length is certainly not the problem (wel not your biggest problem anyways).
I too had the following symptoms:
* Front end would wash out and I will fall flat on my stomach OTB with my arms stretched out
* I'll get stuck in corners
* Fast (ish) on the flat out straight stuff but crap at the techy twisty stuff
I concentrated on getting my weight over the front a lot more and man-handle my bike into the corners. The only way to do that was to bend my elbows and get over the front.
I have also recently taken up a steel hardtail, which forced me to go even further out front, and let the rear of the bike do what it wants to. All I need to concentrate, is to get traction over the front and get loose.
It's helped my posture and riding a lot. Now I don't confider myself as a fast rider and would probably be classed as "Joe Average" but I've definitely improved a lot since I've taken the above actions.
So essentially I went from:
That shy "late to hit puberty" school boy afraid to lift his arms in front of the other boys in the locker rooms for fear of being mocked for not having any under arm hair:
To hairy alpha man-beast that needs to air his pits
Coincidentally, the wide arms and chin over stem position has gotten me out of sticky situations where I would have, 100% washed out and fallen on my face as you can see in the next example:
Started drifting and then jacknifed slightly:
(yes the camera man survived... only just)
I too had the following symptoms:
* Front end would wash out and I will fall flat on my stomach OTB with my arms stretched out
* I'll get stuck in corners
* Fast (ish) on the flat out straight stuff but crap at the techy twisty stuff
I concentrated on getting my weight over the front a lot more and man-handle my bike into the corners. The only way to do that was to bend my elbows and get over the front.
I have also recently taken up a steel hardtail, which forced me to go even further out front, and let the rear of the bike do what it wants to. All I need to concentrate, is to get traction over the front and get loose.
It's helped my posture and riding a lot. Now I don't confider myself as a fast rider and would probably be classed as "Joe Average" but I've definitely improved a lot since I've taken the above actions.
So essentially I went from:
That shy "late to hit puberty" school boy afraid to lift his arms in front of the other boys in the locker rooms for fear of being mocked for not having any under arm hair:
To hairy alpha man-beast that needs to air his pits
Coincidentally, the wide arms and chin over stem position has gotten me out of sticky situations where I would have, 100% washed out and fallen on my face as you can see in the next example:
Started drifting and then jacknifed slightly:
(yes the camera man survived... only just)
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I keep coming back to this thread partly for the comedy, and partly caus' I figure I might pick up some good advice. But I've come to the conclusion that you should pick up Lee McCormack's book Mastering Mountain Bike Skills, read it, and then spend some time with a coach. You're trying to make incremental improvements, and by the sounds of it, you've got some bad habits to unlearn. A coach will really help you work through that. Yes they're expensive, but probably not more expensive than a new frame. Heck how much fun does a week at the Summer Gravity Camps in Whistler sound?!?! Can you imagine what that would do to your riding? I bet you'd get more than a 3% improvement after that...
I ride in the desert son. Visors have a functional purpose too ya know. I dunnit before and I'll do it again. I ain't skared.
If I cared enough to be cool I would quote this in my signature. Well done sir.
Wtf?I have no idea what that means. What formula did you use to calculate this?