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CCDB Coil - Air bubbles in it?

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tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
891
15
After the usual winter-teardown I noticed that my ccdb makes strange noises. It sounds like little air bubbles are in there and if I leave it alone for a while it's all at the befinning of the stroke.

I hade the same with a vivid which even lost it's damping at the beginning of the stroke but when it got warmer it dissappeared. For the ccdb it gets better if I take it inside but it won't dissapear. Damping action is consistent though.

Should I ride it and see if it works with the risk to have to send it in when the seasons kicks off or should I send it in now?
 
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tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
891
15
Pslide said:
Funny, I've got the same problem.

My DH bike rarely gets action any more though, so I haven't done anything about it.
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The strange thing is that there is no oil leak. I mean if Air got inside some oil must have come out somwhere.

And sending it in I dunno. The distributor here has a very bad reputation.
 
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csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
ianjenn said:
A Ti Coiled CCDB vs the Air CCDB. There is not a big weight savings between the 2 and the Ti coil basically makes them almost the same......
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Not sure if there is a better choice in terms of durability. I imagine they are pretty similar in that respect. I would choose the coil over the air every time though, assuming its going on an 8inch+ bike. No matter what all the reviews and marketing drivel states you can't replicate the feel of a coil with an air spring. Choosing air over a coil means you are compromising suspension performance to save weight. The inherit progressiveness built into the end of an air shocks stroke also doesn't suit alot of 8inch frames out there and can be hard to dial in to use full travel. Negligible weight savings being the only benefit doesn't warrant using air over coil. In my opinion. In regards to durability though, I do imagine they are similar. I know my friends Fox RP23 requires air sleeve maintenance every 30 hours, much like fork lowers. Not sure if DB air requires something similar. If so, its not really a big deal but something to ultimately consider.
 
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csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
tabletop84 said:
The strange thing is that there is no oil leak. I mean if Air got inside some oil must have come out somwhere.

And sending it in I dunno. The distributor here has a very bad reputation.
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That's unfortunate. Is sending in to CC direct or a suspension tuner out of the question? I know I wouldn't trust any of my local shops with doing that kind of work either. The local "certified fox tech" already demonstrated his prowess on my 40 and will not be doing that again. I do my own basic lower maintenance, but if I was getting a full damper catridge rebuild on fork/rear shock I would send it to a reputable center to have it done the right way.
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
csermonet said:
Choosing air over a coil means you are compromising suspension performance to save weight. The inherit progressiveness built into the end of an air shocks stroke also doesn't suit alot of 8inch frames out there and can be hard to dial in to use full travel. Negligible weight savings being the only benefit doesn't warrant using air over coil.
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i didnt notice any loss in performance when i made the switch. maybe a little bit of the initial suppleness that coils have was lost but nothing to speak of really. there was/is a issue with not getting full travel with some frames but CC has the new air sleeve to fix that and it doesnt effect all frames obviously.
i saved nearly 3/4 (db coil with 450# ti spring) when i went to the air, not what id call negligible. i was trying to save weight wherever i could without going with wheels or other parts i know i would destroy in a few rides so 3/4# was welcomed.
ymmv
 
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csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
IH8Rice said:
i didnt notice any loss in performance when i made the switch. maybe a little bit of the initial suppleness that coils have was lost but nothing to speak of really. there was/is a issue with not getting full travel with some frames but CC has the new air sleeve to fix that and it doesnt effect all frames obviously.
i saved nearly 3/4 (db coil with 450# ti spring) when i went to the air, not what id call negligible. i was trying to save weight wherever i could without going with wheels or other parts i know i would destroy in a few rides so 3/4# was welcomed.
ymmv
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3/4 is a pretty significant amount I agree. What frame? I have read a fair bit of info from forum user's, some knowledgeable some not, that state they haven't noticed much of a difference switching from coil to air. I've also read about the faff it can be to get full travel. I just have a bit of a vendetta against air springs i guess :p I know that my frame wouldn't be the best candidate for an air shock so that probably has something to do with it. I don't think its fair to make general statements that all air shocks are not suitable for 8 inches. Or that any air shock can work well with any 8 inch frame. It is case to case, some frames work better with air than others, and inside those constraints I imagine certain shock models work better than others. My DH bike is at 39lbs with coil RC4 and 40, and 823 rims. If I was going to save weight I would do it via butted spokes and lighter rims. I could drop some significant weight and still retain some decent wheelset durability I believe.
 
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ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
Thats pretty good weight difference between the 2. I will end up with both and see what happens maybe.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
It's a common problem on the CCDB, in fact there is a lot of variation in bleed quality even in brand new shocks (I've bought about three directly, of the same year model, which were noticeably different from each other in air content).

Damping action is obviously *not* consistent if there is air in the oil, but obviously it's not enough inconsistency for you to actually notice. Whether you get it serviced or not is up to you, but if it's going to be ridden for a full season, it's probably worth getting it done. The shaft seal is a common leak point, if you clean that area well and keep an eye on it you may notice leaking. It can also happen from the adjusters. If you can't notice any external leaks it may be the IFP seal that has allowed air to enter the oil.

I would be careful with who you get to service it, my cousin got his serviced by the AU distributor twice and it came back equally as airy both times (and not performing the same as new), at which point he contacted CC directly who provided a brand new shock.

I believe TFTuned do a good job if that is an option for you. Played with one of the TF guys' shocks last season and it was one of the few CCDB's I've felt that didn't have an airy bleed.
 
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Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
tacubaya said:
I thought all authorized technicians that serviced CCDBs used a vacuum bleeding machine (properly)..
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Properly is the key word there. Vacuum bleeders still aren't as plug and play as one might think - you still have to go to some effort to get all the air out of the damping circuits. The single-tube bleeders that are widely used by the manufacturers have their own issues with pushing aerated oil back into the damper during the pressure fill cycle. If all you do is attach the bleed hose to the bleed port and hit play, you will still end up with air in your oil.
 
Dirtlabs

Dirtlabs

Chimp
Feb 1, 2013
8
0
Boulder, CO
tacubaya said:
I thought all authorized technicians that serviced CCDBs used a vacuum bleeding machine (properly)..
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We're an authorized warranty service center and don't use a vacuum fill machine.

Tabletop84, if you're in the states and want to send it to us, we can give you an assessment on the shock.
 
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tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
891
15
I'm in germany and try to contact my biek manufacturer and I hope they don't send it to the distributor.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
tacubaya said:
I thought all authorized technicians that serviced CCDBs used a vacuum bleeding machine (properly)..
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Judging by the ones that come from factory, vacuum bleeding does not necessarily guarantee a consistent result at all.
 
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AndySTi

Chimp
Apr 3, 2010
21
3
Siberia
Dirtlabs said:
We're an authorized warranty service center and don't use a vacuum fill machine.

Tabletop84, if you're in the states and want to send it to us, we can give you an assessment on the shock.
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If you don't mind saying, what exactly is involved in the oil filling process if you don't use a vacuum fill machine? I had troubles with mine and the service center still couldn't get it back to a state that was comparable to when I bought mine (despite sending it back twice). Everytime it came back there was just too much air in the bleed. Pretty frustrating.
 
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staike

Monkey
May 19, 2011
247
0
Norway
OP: My brother got the same thing. Sent a video of it to Malcolm and he said that the cause most likely was that the nitrogen charge had dissipated and a refill might do the trick.
 
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