Went a little sumpthin like this:
http://blistergearreview.com/recommended/qa-with-dave-turner-turner-bikes
http://blistergearreview.com/recommended/qa-with-dave-turner-turner-bikes
Talkin with Dave Turner
- Thread starter kidwoo
- Start date
More I read into them the more I want a 5spot. Ive been wanting to go up in travel from my GT distortion and im thinking the 5 spot could be my next frame. has anyone slackened one out with a adjustable head set??
read kidwoo's review on the very site about the 5spot that the video is posted on!
awesome interviews. i want the uncut version though.
also, when does ride monkey get an all-mountaineering forum?
awesome interviews. i want the uncut version though.
also, when does ride monkey get an all-mountaineering forum?
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Dave,
I can't take you seriously with those glasses!!
I can't take you seriously with those glasses!!
I just read Kidwoos reviews. very insightful. I think its a little down the line. will wait to get back to NZ to sort one out. we have a brilliant Turner Distro down home.
What did he say about the RFX/160mm bike?
There is no rfx/160mm bike.
Too much pooling of resources in other directions is the impression I got. Plus the general feeling (which I agree with) that most of the people asking for that bike don't realize how capable the 5spot is.
If Dave offered to trade you out a slightly lower and slacker 5 Spot with 1" more rear travel, would you take it? I would. I'd even pay dh frame money.
How's the quality of those headsets, and how well as it held up for you?
(I would think -1.5 would be dialed)
I haven't thought about it since I put it in so........good?
I think -1.5 would rock too. I use the travel adjust on my fork on this bike like no other bike I've owned, I'll freely admit.
But it's sooooo good at mach retarded.
metric mach retarded, or queens royal mach retarded?
Mach retarded transcends units. Mach retarded is its own unit of measure.
Because it's mach retarded.
Because it's mach retarded.
Good stuff!
Did he mention this?;
Did he mention this?;
He started to but I threw my whiskey at him at the word "t-w-e-n-t-y-n-i-n......"
I'd venture to say you are right. I've ridden an 02 RFX for 7 or so years now, half of which were with the 5" plates in place of the 6". I can't say there's anything I can't ride on one that I can on the other. No discernible difference in comfort either.
Part two is up. Two more vids.
http://blistergearreview.com/recommended/qa-with-dave-turner-turner-bikes-part-2
poland: people fixate way too much on travel when mentally categorizing what a particular bike 'can do', I agree.
http://blistergearreview.com/recommended/qa-with-dave-turner-turner-bikes-part-2
poland: people fixate way too much on travel when mentally categorizing what a particular bike 'can do', I agree.
Agree 100% too.
a well design 5" bike will feel better than a average 6".
Im looking forward to having a turner in the fleet. I have enjoyed my Distortion. It has taught me so much. It so much fun thinking your on a big bike and then finding yourself completely under gunned for the speed your going. its one hell of a laugh. Im looking forward to having just a bit more travel plus Ive never had a DW link bike so that will be new and fun.
Im looking forward to having a turner in the fleet. I have enjoyed my Distortion. It has taught me so much. It so much fun thinking your on a big bike and then finding yourself completely under gunned for the speed your going. its one hell of a laugh. Im looking forward to having just a bit more travel plus Ive never had a DW link bike so that will be new and fun.
All-mountaineering is so 2012. It's Enduro for 2013.
Many years ago I demoed the 5.5 spot (DW) when Dave was in Sedona. I had brought my RFX and had ridden that the same day. The 5.5 spot used it's travel better and was more supple on most stuff. The spot was using an air shock as well, but the DW link just sucked up stuff so well and with 140mm of travel, you didn't really miss any travel. It was already "slacked out" compared to previous spots, and over the years it's been tweaked even slacker. It's not super light, but it is very capable. On that day I would have switched out my RFX for the 5.5 spot, no question. Lighter, far better pedaling, suspension, etc...
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not sure, but i'm shooting studio photos of it tomorrowGood stuff!
Did he mention this?;
nice interviews by the way....always cool to hear what makes David tick...
by 2015 there will be XC Enduro, Trail enduro, DH enduro, as well as standard trail, XC, DH, AM, SS, fatbike, fatbike trail
Sure, if you're comparing the current Spot to the old 4 bar ones I'd expect that result. However, I'm looking for a replacement for a very good 170mm bike - a coil sprung Reign X. I haven't ridden the new Spot extensively, but enough to know that it's not the Reign X's rear suspensions equal in smoothing out the rough.
What's wrong with your reign?
Nothing yet, but it's got six seasons of hard riding on it and I'm sure it's going to develop a crack at some point.
That second question you ask Woo is really relevant and it's refreshing to hear somebody with pedigree answer it. Not to go too much into sociological issues here, but the immediate barriers pertaining to mtbing are so great in terms of cost and location that we end up seeing rather uniform demographics AKA white males between 25 and 40... It's quite sad IMHO.
That's the kind of question that is worth being raised in the MTB world. I mean you can go on CompCyclist and buy a "turn key" SC Bronson plastic bike with blingy parts for upwards 10k!
That's the kind of question that is worth being raised in the MTB world. I mean you can go on CompCyclist and buy a "turn key" SC Bronson plastic bike with blingy parts for upwards 10k!
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It sounds like your after a completely different bike. Maybe a nomad for santycruisers might work out better for you?
I roll on an '06 FSR link 6 Pack with 5 spot rocker arm. Makes it have a little over 5" travel, slack enough travel and a rear yoke that can take a big, bad arse tire and take all my brainless abuse. DHX 5.0 Air rear.
For every trail bike I see since that, there is virtually nothing that can make me get rid of it. It still looks a year old.
For every trail bike I see since that, there is virtually nothing that can make me get rid of it. It still looks a year old.
Jeesh have those things already been around that long? Time flies.
The conversation I usually have with people (and had with myself) just revolves on what you'd really use the bike for. If it's a trail bike, meaning you pedal up and down, there's nothing about the current 5 spot that will hold you back compared to any of the slightly longer travel trail bikes out there like the reigns, mojos and nomads. In fact in most of the places people ride those things, I'd say the 5 spot is faster. If you really are looking for more of a bike park type ride, then yeah, don't get a 5 spot. But I ride mine on what most people around here shuttle big bikes to. And I ride everything but the big dumb flat huckeroo landings, and ride it WAY faster than those guys. The only thing I really changed is the headangle.
And just FYI I'm not the kind of idiot that walks around going 'you don't need a bike that big' as I poke my way down something a million miles an hour slower than guys on bigger bikes either. Those dorks drive me nuts. When I say ride, I mean it.
But I do own a 7" travel 'freeride' bike too. But I do things on that bike that I'd never do on a nomad/reign/ibis either.
But there are a shlt ton of really really good trail bikes out there now. I'm not dumb enough to think the 5spot is the end all be all of that genre. It's just a good one that gets too often overlooked because of the travel thing.
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...not to mention I almost peed myself when I saw Jake at I9's polished 5 Spot with proto Torch wheels in polished form.
I loved my RFX, but I also realized that I could do most everything that I did on it with a 5.5 spot, especially with better damping/fork technology and brakes/wheels. The RFX (was actually a 6 pack initially) was an awesome ride, no doubt, but it was heavy and sorry to disappoint the FSR guys, but it feels like pedaling through a wet mattress when you are faced with a hill and it starts squatting in a high gear (in granny ring it wasn't as bad). Many of the rides I was doing was with someone on a 5spot, so maybe that had something to do with it, although he later got a Nomad, which still wasn't quite as beefy as the RFX.
The original RFX was a beefy freeride bike when 6" was a lot of travel, and basically "freeride". The "Freeride" thing ballooned up to the 13lb Knolly Vtach, and then came back down a bit, but I think the "freeride" term is one of the worst out there. Very few people actually ride a heavy bike uphill for the downhills. They'll ride a trail bike or bike like the later generation 6pack/RFX, but I'd say 99% of the guys riding anything that was really a "freeride" bike were always just doing shuttle runs, and in that area, they would have been better served by a DH bike, maybe one with lighter components, but a DH bike would have been a far better choice.
So that's what I see today. Sure, a lot of people *think* they are going to ride up a hill and do the same trails that people are doing on their DH bike, but it's such a small market that most manufacturers have seen the light and no longer make such ridiculous bikes. They do make some "mini" DH bikes these days, that are very slack and poor climbers, yet they are lighter and nimble and make fun of the smoother downhill trails and those that can use the skills. This too is a niche and usually a bike for someone that already has a few, not a "do it all" bike like the 5 spot or even the RFX.
I don't like having to have 20 different bikes, but newer 5spot is built heavier than the older generation, it has more travel, it uses the travel better/is more supple, it can take 160mm of front travel just fine, and pretty slack with that to boot. It's meant to be that "do everything" bike, and you don't have to set it up with only 140mm of travel in the front or skinny XC tires and wheels.
Plus, you'll think you're all bada$$ on your 160mm RFX and some guy on a 140mm (or less!) FS 29er just rode the same thing you barely made it though. The market for certain segments of bikes is getting smaller (while the market for others is getting bigger). 3-4" travel FS 26ers are about dead. They are just basically a "oh yeah, we make a 26er version of our 29er bike too!" now. A 29er hardtail will go at least as fast, weighs the same or less, gets better efficiency than that 26er FS XC bike. Ok, riders at the radically small size may not do as well, but some small ones are riding 29ers, and if that doesn't work exactly, 650b is along to fill the gaps.
I do not believe 29ers will EVER take over DH bikes, because the travel limitation is too great and even though you can keep speed better, there's a difference between rocking a 29er XC bike and a 29er DH bike with DH rims ,DH tubes (maybe), DH rubber, and all of that rotational mass. That's a different level of sluggish, and while it may work for some places, 650b probably has a much greater future and 29er will probably never make it in this area.
Some bikes like the RFX are caught in between too, and it's a good decision not to produce them. You are fighting for a market share that is getting smaller and smaller, against bikes like the Tallboy LT, new Spec Enduro 29er, which will weigh the same or less and be more capable in rough terrain. Even the 100mm travel 29ers can often give the long travel 26ers a run for their money in the rough terrain.
This keeps the 5spot a little bit more in a niche, it's more nimble, not super heavy, can be adequately slack, etc. If you want a more sluggish bike, there are way too many choices and I for one wouldn't buy a 160-170mm DW RFX, even though I've owned 3 turners and love the craftsmanship and design. Why? I'd rather ride a light tallboy LTc or 29er enduro with a 150mm fork, and if I was being realistic and honest with myself, I'd only build the 170mm DW RFX to optimize it for DH and it'd be better to have a slopestyle or just full on DH bike. I'd make that decision based on my terrain and how many bikes I could afford.
The original RFX was a beefy freeride bike when 6" was a lot of travel, and basically "freeride". The "Freeride" thing ballooned up to the 13lb Knolly Vtach, and then came back down a bit, but I think the "freeride" term is one of the worst out there. Very few people actually ride a heavy bike uphill for the downhills. They'll ride a trail bike or bike like the later generation 6pack/RFX, but I'd say 99% of the guys riding anything that was really a "freeride" bike were always just doing shuttle runs, and in that area, they would have been better served by a DH bike, maybe one with lighter components, but a DH bike would have been a far better choice.
So that's what I see today. Sure, a lot of people *think* they are going to ride up a hill and do the same trails that people are doing on their DH bike, but it's such a small market that most manufacturers have seen the light and no longer make such ridiculous bikes. They do make some "mini" DH bikes these days, that are very slack and poor climbers, yet they are lighter and nimble and make fun of the smoother downhill trails and those that can use the skills. This too is a niche and usually a bike for someone that already has a few, not a "do it all" bike like the 5 spot or even the RFX.
I don't like having to have 20 different bikes, but newer 5spot is built heavier than the older generation, it has more travel, it uses the travel better/is more supple, it can take 160mm of front travel just fine, and pretty slack with that to boot. It's meant to be that "do everything" bike, and you don't have to set it up with only 140mm of travel in the front or skinny XC tires and wheels.
Plus, you'll think you're all bada$$ on your 160mm RFX and some guy on a 140mm (or less!) FS 29er just rode the same thing you barely made it though. The market for certain segments of bikes is getting smaller (while the market for others is getting bigger). 3-4" travel FS 26ers are about dead. They are just basically a "oh yeah, we make a 26er version of our 29er bike too!" now. A 29er hardtail will go at least as fast, weighs the same or less, gets better efficiency than that 26er FS XC bike. Ok, riders at the radically small size may not do as well, but some small ones are riding 29ers, and if that doesn't work exactly, 650b is along to fill the gaps.
I do not believe 29ers will EVER take over DH bikes, because the travel limitation is too great and even though you can keep speed better, there's a difference between rocking a 29er XC bike and a 29er DH bike with DH rims ,DH tubes (maybe), DH rubber, and all of that rotational mass. That's a different level of sluggish, and while it may work for some places, 650b probably has a much greater future and 29er will probably never make it in this area.
Some bikes like the RFX are caught in between too, and it's a good decision not to produce them. You are fighting for a market share that is getting smaller and smaller, against bikes like the Tallboy LT, new Spec Enduro 29er, which will weigh the same or less and be more capable in rough terrain. Even the 100mm travel 29ers can often give the long travel 26ers a run for their money in the rough terrain.
This keeps the 5spot a little bit more in a niche, it's more nimble, not super heavy, can be adequately slack, etc. If you want a more sluggish bike, there are way too many choices and I for one wouldn't buy a 160-170mm DW RFX, even though I've owned 3 turners and love the craftsmanship and design. Why? I'd rather ride a light tallboy LTc or 29er enduro with a 150mm fork, and if I was being realistic and honest with myself, I'd only build the 170mm DW RFX to optimize it for DH and it'd be better to have a slopestyle or just full on DH bike. I'd make that decision based on my terrain and how many bikes I could afford.
re: the 'Why bother making a downhill-specific bike?' question, I was hoping / expecting him to point out that for many years now there's been a strong market for a longish travel bike that descends well...and therefore a good bike designer aiming at that larger market (and let's not get into AM vs light FR vs mini DH vs Enduro vs Flavor Of the Week terminology) ideally needs to be intimately familiar with how a modern DH bike rides and the engineering behind that. Axle path, shock leverage curve, brake force distribution, etc etc.
DH represents a benchmark for the down, and then we all get to throw around money pursuing the elusive best-of-both-worlds.
PS thx for making and posting the vids woo.
DH represents a benchmark for the down, and then we all get to throw around money pursuing the elusive best-of-both-worlds.
PS thx for making and posting the vids woo.
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I used to call it the Corvette sales model (Chevy loses money on every Vette sold, but has to make it b/c people aspire to and will buy Chevy b/c of the Vette) but now a DH bike isn't really cost differentiated at all from all these new trail bike whips.
Cost difference is still there. Carbon DH frames sell for about a grand more than carbon trail frames.