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DT Swiss ex 500 rims vs 721s...or any other lighter rim

SCARY

SCARY

Not long enough
Apr 6, 2003
1,287
4
I need more of these green square things^^
ive ridden 721s forever and the ones I'm on now are about done.I wouldn't mind shedding a little rim weight if I can.

I've looked at Stan's and just don't think they'll hold up.Ive looked at enve's and was about to pull the trigger till one guy at Bootleg said he broke 5 of them at the spoke hole.They replaced them,but still.

I haven't found any real reviews recently on the EX 500s',but the ones I did see where from 2009 and weren't that great.

Any options ,or ideas or than sticking with 721s?They are good rims,just looking.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,340
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
My idea is that you should buy some 729s and use the wider tire footprint to go faster to the point that you quit stressing about what your bike weighs in the garage.

And if anyone wants to whine that they ding, remind them that you're comparing them to some DT swiss rims :D
 
P

project_d

Chimp
Dec 15, 2009
93
0
SoCal
I've been riding 721s on-and-off for a few years. Solid rim, and I can't really say anything bad for their weight. I haven't ridden those DT rims; I heard the ones from a few years ago were soft and weren't that good, but the new ones were better...still dented right at the bead, but were designed to dent, not crack. Again, never rode them, so I can't say for certain.
 
dhbrigade

dhbrigade

Chimp
Feb 21, 2006
89
2
Riding Mavic against DT Rims for XC, 4X and DH as well since DT started their rim production, I'm actually building all my wheels with Mavic rims. 717D for 4x and 721 for DH.

At comparable weight Mavic rims last longer and make the better wheel. While DT rims dent all through the line (EX400, EX500, FR600) it's hard to dent a 721...
 
B

b.utters

Monkey
Mar 30, 2011
135
0
EX500 + maxxis welter weight tubes. The rims will ding but you will find it pretty hard to get a flat. I managed to make a set last for 2 years before i replaced them, wouldn't have lasted much longer though.

Or just go with 823's and don[t worry about buying a new wheel set for like......ever.
 
Verskis

Verskis

Monkey
May 14, 2010
458
8
Tampere, Finland
kidwoo said:
My idea is that you should buy some 729s and use the wider tire footprint to go faster to the point that you quit stressing about what your bike weighs in the garage.

And if anyone wants to whine that they ding, remind them that you're comparing them to some DT swiss rims :D
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This should be a default answer to all the DH rim questions :)
 
M

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
All rims dent of you bottom onto a rock. If they don't then you either tear the tube or the tire.

It's just a matter of how laterally stiff the rim is, because that is what makes you go fast while cornering and pedaling, and that is also what makes you need to replace the thing generally speaking (the Rim being terribly out of true).

So yeah, is saving 70g worth a less stiff wheel?
 
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D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
Gave a set of Spank Spikes to a savage little bastard that rides here. He destroys everything. EVERYTHING. He killed the spanks too, but it took the whole season. Really liked them as well, and they gave the tire a great profile.
 
D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
Worse yet, hes worried he'll be mistaken for one of those Fatbike guys.

I think Fatbikes are the bike worlds version of Warcraft cosplayers.
 
SCARY

SCARY

Not long enough
Apr 6, 2003
1,287
4
I need more of these green square things^^
I've tried wider rims before,years ago.I just kindof like the predictability of a 721 width and a minion 2.5.i don't really get flats,but I run higher pressures,too.

Maybe I like less rolling resistance cuz I'm old and don't want to pedal hard anymore.

There ,WOO!! You broke me! You happy NOW?!
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,340
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
SCARY said:
There ,WOO!! You broke me! You happy NOW?!
Click to expand...

Yeah.

Lil bit.



Just keep running 721s. You don't really have a good reason for wanting to try something else from the sounds of it. I don't like the way even a 2.5 maxxis tire rolls over laterally on a rim that skinny but if it doesn't bother you, keep'em. Those thing are burly as fvck for what they weigh. That's what I put on my dirtjumpers. I'm also a fan.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I got sick of 721's because they hold minions pretty poorly once they get a bit out of shape and have seen a few truing cycles. They also dent slightly worse than other rims at comparable weight thanks to the straight sidewalls, but most rims around that weight will dent pretty easily anyway.

I switched to MTX29's which hold rubber until the bitter end, so I'm much happier - and as a bonus they're cheaper so it makes it easier to justify lacing new ones up more often. They are no better than 721s for dent resistance at low pressures, but you can run them a lot more ragged without rolling tyres off. I have no desire to ever purchase a 721 again.

I have heard good things about the EX500's you are considering (the newer ones anyway), they are supposed to hold up pretty well for their weight. Expecting a 500g rim to be particularly strong is probably unreasonable though.

One of the better rims I've seen for strength vs. weight is the Alex Supra D. Unfortunately not many places stock these, but if available I would strongly consider them.
 
Tomasis

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
daisycutter said:
"I have heard good things about the EX500's "

You might be the only person on earth who has.
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Other Swiss guys might disagree with you :)

If I had choose light wide rim, I'd take Dartmoor Revolt! Though I dont know how it hold up tubeless.

Im kinda divided between that and WTB I23, eventually EX500. How hold EX530 up? it seems be a little cheaper since it is not welded.
 
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jackalope

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,609
5,924
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Assuming you're talking about DH wheels, just stick with 721s or one of the other suggested options. Having said that, I've obliterated a set of 721s (albeit, one was the result of a bad front wheel case), and have found them to be very average in terms of dent resistance. Nothing like my old 729s, but that's hardly surprising. I've also run DT 5.1 (or EX 500s) for years on my trail bike, and they have been fuggin stellar. I should also mention I'm fat and firmly believe all rocks should be run over rather than avoided or jumped over. More importantly, I ride in Pisgah on occassion, so I'm a pretty big deal around here. :thumb:

But to me, EX 500s are trail/AM rims, and not designed for DH abuse unless you're riding really mellow stuff.
 
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kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
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Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
Udi said:
One of the better rims I've seen for strength vs. weight is the Alex Supra D. Unfortunately not many places stock these, but if available I would strongly consider them.
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They change anything with those in the last year?

I've watched a 140lb buddy flat spot those things pretty easily.


What do you run for tire pressures? Somewhere with plenty of wide open fast like whistler? I've done some damage to 729s but I don't think I ever dented a 721, not significantly at least.
 
Verskis

Verskis

Monkey
May 14, 2010
458
8
Tampere, Finland
kidwoo said:
I've done some damage to 729s but I don't think I ever dented a 721, not significantly at least.
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Really? The 721 is nowhere near dent proof, I got about 10 well sized dents on my rear rim during one enduro race on my hardtail. Surprisingly I didn't get a single flat tire.
 
Tomasis

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
Verskis, what pressure and tire/tube? Im running two pairs 721 and 823, I didnt managed anything to buckle one of them.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
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Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
Verskis said:
Really? The 721 is nowhere near dent proof, I got about 10 well sized dents on my rear rim during one enduro race on my hardtail. Surprisingly I didn't get a single flat tire.
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Seriously....I ran those things for years and never put a scratch on any of them. I pretty much think of them as like magic. Way too skinny, like too skinny to take seriously these days magic.

Maybe I was just slow back then.
 
Verskis

Verskis

Monkey
May 14, 2010
458
8
Tampere, Finland
Tomasis said:
Verskis, what pressure and tire/tube? Im running two pairs 721 and 823, I didnt managed anything to buckle one of them.
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I was using a single ply 2.5" High Roller with a seriously thick Michelin (or Maxxis, can't remember) DH tube. The pressure was about 1.9 bar (circa 28 psi).
That's probably a pretty stupid setup, I should have gone with a dual ply tire (and a lighter tube or tubeless) to prevent the dents, but didn't have any dual ply tires with well rolling tread and compound.

Single ply tires seem to kill rims easily. The first time I was riding my current DH bike (testing a slightly used bike) it had single ply tires on but I thought they were dual plys so I adjusted the pressure according to that and went riding. That resulted in numerous dents on both rims (on MTX33's, soft rims) and a front flat before I realized I was riding single ply tires.
I get way less dents on proper dual ply tires and practically never get flats with them.
 
Tomasis

Tomasis

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
681
0
Scotland
Verskis, thanks. It makes sense!

I had only single ply oversized tire at front and it worked okay, though I would not be surprised if it fail. I noticed that single ply is less ideal for tubeless setup.

It will be interesting to see/feel difference between 22mm and 27mm (inner width of rim) and check tire sidewall bouncing performance.

I see that some run Deemax/823 still despite lack of wider rim width. I think there is nothing or wrong, just some like more "flexier" sidewall bouncing.
 
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Verskis

Verskis

Monkey
May 14, 2010
458
8
Tampere, Finland
kidwoo said:
You're disqualified from the dh forum with anything regarding wheels or tires for a week.

It'll give you some time to think about what you've done.
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Sorry boss :D
That was the best setup I could do with my existing tires. Ideally I'd liked a 60 shore Maxxis dual ply tire, but only had supertackies in 2.7" size. The race had quite a bit of pedaling so didn't want to have really heavy and slow rolling tires.
The tube saved me from having flats, and the pressure could have been a little higher but I wanted to have some give, it feels horrible to ride a hardtail with a rock hard rear tire. And I'm pretty light, 75 kg which is 165 pounds.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
So drop the heavy tube. They don't really help with flats in 95% of the cases. The only use for a heavy tube is strangling people who skid in corners.
 
E

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
Fun fact, i've had less flats with single ply tires than dual ply ones even though there have been numerous times i've hit something so hard that just the sound from the hit says "boy you're walking home". I even usually stop because of it and it takes a moment to realize i didnt get a flat. Whereas with dual ones i can come down from a run and realize that i got a flat and i havent felt anything serious.
 
Verskis

Verskis

Monkey
May 14, 2010
458
8
Tampere, Finland
norbar said:
So drop the heavy tube. They don't really help with flats in 95% of the cases. The only use for a heavy tube is strangling people who skid in corners.
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Yes they help. My thick DH tube is full of marks from being pinched between the tire and the rim, but it has been punctured only a few times.
I'm still dropping the tube, I'm going to set my trailbike wheels tubeless. I also replaced the hardtail frame with a full suspension one, the rear wheel's life should be easier now.

On my DH bike I do not have any issues with flatting tires with dual ply tires and regular XC tubes, even if the rims get dented sometimes.
 
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norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Verskis said:
Yes they help. My thick DH tube is full of marks from being pinched between the tire and the rim, but it has been punctured only a few times.
I'm still dropping the tube, I'm going to set my trailbike wheels tubeless. I also replaced the hardtail frame with a full suspension one, the rear wheel's life should be easier now.

On my DH bike I do not have any issues with flatting tires with dual ply tires and regular XC tubes, even if the rims get dented sometimes.
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I have marks on my xc tubes as long as I don't use some stupid uber light tube. I switched from heavy to light tubes and the pinch flat frequency was the same.
 
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