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Tuning a fork to your riding style.

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GodSmack

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May 27, 2013
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Some people are over 200 pounds but ride with style. Others are under 200 pounds and charge hard popping off of every root and rock.
The stock settings on forks as well as recommended settings are guidelines for your average rider. This works for probably 90 % of the riders. Still if you don't know what you are doing when you adjust the knobs you just as easily make your fork feel worse!

If you invested in a thousand dollar fork spend the hundred bucks to get it tuned to your riding style.

If you have the inclination to tweek your knobs........

High speed compression adjusts the dampening to big hits and square edge bumps at high speed.
Low speed compression adjust the dampening to small frequencies. Your average trail chatter.
Rebound is tricky. You want it fast enuf so the fork can return to the top of the travel with out being too fast.
Slow rebound will cause your fork to "pack up" and not stay in the middle or top of the travel.

Note: on a DH run you should bottom out the fork quite a bit. Its called using all your travel.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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high speed compression adjuster does not do what you describe on forks or shocks. what it changes is the amount of force required to open the high speed compression circuit (you are basically adjusting the preload on a spring that controls an open/close valve on the port to the hsc circuit). not the actual damping itself. the damping can only be changed by opening the damping unit and modifying the compression shim stack.
 
G

GodSmack

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May 27, 2013
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The high speed compression knob can be adjustable bleed port. To adjust the amount of pressure needed to open the circuit involves changing the shims in the shim stack.
Changing the amount of force that is required to open the high speed compression circuit is going to alter how the fork behaves when you hit a square edge bump at high speed.

Jon Cranked please explain to me what a high speed compression is for specifically as I am trying to educate the masses on how to tune a fork not start a debate.
Whats the knob do that's the question. right?
 
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jonKranked

jonKranked

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GodSmack said:
The high speed compression knob can be adjustable bleed port. To adjust the amount of pressure needed to open the circuit involves changing the shims in the shim stack.
Changing the amount of force that is required to open the high speed compression circuit is going to alter how the fork behaves when you hit a square edge bump at high speed.
Click to expand...
it can be implemented in a number of ways (spring & ball bearing, bleed port / needle, or a shim stack*), but your HSC adjuster really only controls how much force it takes for the suspension unit to activate HSC circuit.

*Note: shim stack controlled high speed compression adjust generally isn't externally adjustable (i can't think of any fork or shock off-hand that is setup this way and has externally adjustable HSC)

[edit] another note: bleed port / needle configuration is typically only used for LSC (and rebound) since that's an "always on" part of the suspension circuit

How much force it takes to open the port only marginally affects how it behaves once its opened (and really only if you have it set too high, then you'll wind up spiking).

As a point of clarity, opening the HSC doesn't close the LSC, so once they are both opened they work in conjunction with one another (and is why LSC can affect HSC).

to actually change the amount of high speed compression (or rebound) damping a particular shock/fork has, you have to open the damping unit and actually modify the HSC (or rebound) shim stack; the actual damping rate is determined by the # of shims, thickness of the shims, the od of the shims, and the order they are placed.

GodSmack said:
Jon Cranked please explain to me what a high speed compression is for specifically as I am trying to educate the masses on how to tune a fork not start a debate.
Whats the knob do that's the question. right?
Click to expand...
you are right, i did misspeak - you are correct - that's what high speed compression is for - big hits and hard edges - impacts that put a lot of force into the suspension. but how it works is different (explained above).
 
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GodSmack

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Annnnnnnd back to how to tune a fork. What will those knobs do for you?
lets assume you have the proper spring rate.
If your fork dives wayyyyyy too much when you apply the brakes then try adding more low speed compression. This will make the fork less sensitive to small bumps but the fork will stay higher in the travel and bob less.
If you have sore hands early in the ride and the forks chatters then you have too much low speed compression or a Manito fork ha ha. So if you are not soaking up the small stuff turn the LC knob to the negative.
Rebound. Too much rebound is bad. It causes the fork to pack up and not return to full travel.
Again if your fork sits too far in its travel during DH runs then try backing off the rebound.
Hi speed compression will also affect low speed compression so if you crank up the HSC then you will loose a bit of small bump compliance.
Im staring at an add of the new DB Air. Adjustable hi and low speed for compression and H/L rebound. Please if you buy this shock get it tuned by a pro for you and your bike! wayyy too many knobs for your average bear.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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understanding what the knobs do internally to the damper is where the disconnect is for most riders. and it's a crucial point to understanding how to get your suspension to do what you want.

regarding your comments on low speed compression - if the fork is harsh or "chatters" as you call it, i've encountered this with a lot of other riders - more often than not its because they have too much low speed combined with not enough high speed. so the lsc spikes and then the hsc opens up too early.

CCDB's aren't that hard to tune if you know what your frame's leverage curve looks like. and understand how suspension works.
 
StiHacka

StiHacka

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Jan 4, 2013
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This thread is best to be deleted, too much confusing stuff in here while there is excellent info on damping on this site ready for those who can search. Too many misconceptions to correct IMHO, the biggest one being shock shaft speed != impact size. Low speed frequency != typical trail chatter. Big hits == low speed compression, etc etc.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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oh man how i don't miss platform damping.

the other day i was going through a small parts drawer and came across the platform valves from old 5th element / manipoo swingers i had converted :rofl:
 
G

GodSmack

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May 27, 2013
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jonKranked said:
understanding what the knobs do internally to the damper is where the disconnect is for most riders. and it's a crucial point to understanding how to get your suspension to do what you want.

regarding your comments on low speed compression - if the fork is harsh or "chatters" as you call it, i've encountered this with a lot of other riders - more often than not its because they have too much low speed combined with not enough high speed. so the lsc spikes and then the hsc opens up too early.

CCDB's aren't that hard to tune if you know what your frame's leverage curve looks like. and understand how suspension works.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah we all know what our leverage curve is on our frames. No problem!
Do you realize that the average North American has probably has the equivalency of a grade 8 education?!!!
Yes your very smart. Are you smart enuf to speak in lay mans terms?
 
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jonKranked

jonKranked

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GodSmack said:
Oh yeah we all know what our leverage curve is on our frames. No problem!
Do you realize that the average North American has probably has the equivalency of a grade 8 education?!!!
Yes your very smart. Are you smart enuf to speak in lay mans terms?
Click to expand...
that's probably the main problem. suspension isn't something easily discussed in layman's terms.
 
G

GodSmack

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May 27, 2013
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jonKranked said:
understanding what the knobs do internally to the damper is where the disconnect is for most riders. and it's a crucial point to understanding how to get your suspension to do what you want.

regarding your comments on low speed compression - if the fork is harsh or "chatters" as you call it, i've encountered this with a lot of other riders - more often than not its because they have too much low speed combined with not enough high speed. so the lsc spikes and then the hsc opens up too early.

Good point too much low speed compression with not enough HSC is probably the most common mistake on fork setup.
Click to expand...
 
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trailbildr

Chimp
Aug 14, 2012
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The best way to learn about suspension is in situ with someone you can ride with. Certain sections of trail correspond well to certain settings. I have helped a few hundred people set up their suspension at bike parks and a basic understanding is all that is needed. However, my experience most pertains to being able to talk to someone about what they 'felt' on certain sections of trail and bracketing the settings with multiple runs.

For example, I set people up differently if they are riding ProDH at Snowshoe vs. Breakout at Mtn Creek.

The explanation of how it all works is mostly academic and the stuff for bike designers and suspension engineers. How it affects your riding is the crucial bit, but not very easy to convey via internets...

mk
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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l learned an awful lot about suspension by actually opening it up and tinkering with it - in conjunction with reading about it on these here interwebz.
 
blindboxx2334

blindboxx2334

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Mar 19, 2013
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agreed, i learned so much when i rebuilt my fit damper in my 32 fork.. the lockout doesnt work, cause theres still bubbles in there from not using a big enough syringe, but i actually think it feels better now. (its so hard to find a syringe around here to bleed it, and everyone thinks your a junkie when you ask for one...lol) Who knows? maybe its worse, but i like it! :D

as much as i read about stuff online and like to convince myself that im learning, i feel like im genuinely only learning about suspension when im wrenching on it, or watching someone do it in front of me.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

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blindboxx2334 said:
agreed, i learned so much when i rebuilt my fit damper in my 32 fork.. the lockout doesnt work, cause theres still bubbles in there from not using a big enough syringe, but i actually think it feels better now. (its so hard to find a syringe around here to bleed it, and everyone thinks your a junkie when you ask for one...lol) Who knows? maybe its worse, but i like it! :D

as much as i read about stuff online and like to convince myself that im learning, i feel like im genuinely only learning about suspension when im wrenching on it, or watching someone do it in front of me.
Click to expand...
check your PM's.

you can find syringes in the grocery store in the kitchen utensil aisle for injecting sauces into meats.
 
T

trailbildr

Chimp
Aug 14, 2012
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I wasn't saying you CAN'T learn stuff on the internets, but rather, suspension seems better learned on dirt.

Plus, on dirt. Amiright?

mk
 
G

GodSmack

Chimp
May 27, 2013
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jonKranked said:
check your PM's.

you can find syringes in the grocery store in the kitchen utensil aisle for injecting sauces into meats.
Click to expand...
When I ask for a syringe at the drug store they give me a dirty look and give it too me for free! Now that's entertainment.
 
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