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what is all this fuss about bike weight savings???

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freeriding

Monkey
Jun 5, 2011
138
1
i don't understand why all that fuss with the bike weight savings...

if you have 2 bikes with the same light wheelset, and they have a 2 kg difference, it is easier to lose 2 kg from your body weight than the bike.

why do so costly changes in the bike that will save 1kg and not do a diet and lose 1 kg????

weight either on the bike (not the wheels, cause then it is 2x the weight of other bike components/frame) or the body itself, is the same.

moreover losing body weight helps in downhill sections because the standing weight is lowered, and so fatigue in the legs is less.

if someone is quite thin, then ok, save bike weight.

but 1,80 guys with 85kg, better save $ and lose 1-2 kg of body weight (easy task)!!!

what ya think?

:weee: :thumb:
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Because the bike is not your bodypart. It is on the outside of the bike+rider system. If it was part of your body your idea would be true but since it isn't you are quite far from reality.


btw. low weight = less fatigue? I wish I was 30kg then.
 
P

Pslide

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
1,373
0
Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.
You should do an experiment. Load up your camelback so it's nice and heavy, ride your favorite downhill trail, go back up, strap your loaded camelback to your bike, and ride the same trail. You'll notice the difference right away. Your bike will feel like a pig.

You can compare the rider/bike relationship like sprung/unsprung weight on a car. Less unsprung weight greatly improves the suspensions responsiveness, regardless of the sprung weight.
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
freeriding said:
i don't understand why all that fuss with the bike weight savings...

if you have 2 bikes with the same light wheelset, and they have a 2 kg difference, it is easier to lose 2 kg from your body weight than the bike.

why do so costly changes in the bike that will save 1kg and not do a diet and lose 1 kg????

weight either on the bike (not the wheels, cause then it is 2x the weight of other bike components/frame) or the body itself, is the same.

moreover losing body weight helps in downhill sections because the standing weight is lowered, and so fatigue in the legs is less.

if someone is quite thin, then ok, save bike weight.

but 1,80 guys with 85kg, better save $ and lose 1-2 kg of body weight (easy task)!!!

what ya think?

:weee: :thumb:
Click to expand...
Just remember Gwin's Trek was 37-38LBS and he won most races on it...... don't get to worried about weight!
 
T

Tomasz

Monkey
Jul 18, 2012
339
0
Whistla
Light bikes feel amazing. You can't go back once you start riding them. It becomes an addiction. I'm at 32lb now and looking for more...

/notsosneakyweightweeniebragging
 
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maxyedor

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,141
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Pslide said:
You should do an experiment. Load up your camelback so it's nice and heavy, ride your favorite downhill trail, go back up, strap your loaded camelback to your bike, and ride the same trail. You'll notice the difference right away. Your bike will feel like a pig.
Click to expand...
This^

My full Camelback, with the battery for my light weighs about 17 million pounds, and aside from my back slightly bugging me at the end of a long ride, I really don't notice it. Swap from some mid-weight 2.3s like my Nokian NBXs to some XC tires (running Ignitor 2.1s) and I can climb noticeably faster, and what little I lose in the rough, I can more than make up for in the pedaly sections.

Switching tires, plus swapping the LX cassette for an XT cassette dropped about 2 pounds off my trail bike, that took my from 11:30ish on one of the local climbs to 10:15-10:30. Same climb without my Camelback, which weighs a hell of a lot more than 2lbs, saves me maybe 5-10 seconds.
 
gemini2k

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Pslide said:
You should do an experiment. Load up your camelback so it's nice and heavy, ride your favorite downhill trail, go back up, strap your loaded camelback to your bike, and ride the same trail. You'll notice the difference right away. Your bike will feel like a pig.
Click to expand...
Tell that to a moto rider.
 
Full Trucker

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
10,552
7,645
Exit, CO
gemini2k said:
That's why you ride a big bore 2 stroke.
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Huh. When I rode some moto, I could tell the difference in handling from a full fuel tank to a nearly empty one, and I'm a hack that rode a 250F. I would think a 2-stroke the difference would be even more noticeable, since they're typically lighter IIRC.

In case you're not following along here: if you strap a fully weighted Camelbak to your dirtbike it's gonna change the way it handles, just like it'll handle differently with a full or nearly empty fuel tank. It won't make as much of a difference as it would on a DH bike, granted. The lighter the initial unsprung weight of the vehicle, the larger difference a fixed amount of added weight makes. It's not rocket science, it's just regular science. And math. And math is hard, I get it.











EDIT: Goddammit. Am I arguing on the Internet again? Sorry.
 
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IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
ianjenn said:
Just remember Gwin's Trek was 37-38LBS and he won most races on it...... don't get to worried about weight!
Click to expand...
his bike was a lot lighter then that. i checked out Neko's bike recently and it was significantly lighter then my M9 which is 39lbs


i noticed a big difference in bike handling and maneuverability when i went from a 42.5lb bike to a 39lb. it wasnt the most accurate test since they were different frames but a lighter bike is easier to move around and you can put it where you want to easier
 
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gemini2k

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Full Trucker said:
In case you're not following along here: if you strap a fully weighted Camelbak to your dirtbike it's gonna change the way it handles, just like it'll handle differently with a full or nearly empty fuel tank. It won't make as much of a difference as it would on a DH bike, granted.
Click to expand...
Right, and a fully weighted camelbak probably weighs about ~15-20 pounds? Last time I checked with light v heavy builds on DH bikes were talking about ones of pounds at most.
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
Mo(n)arch said:
No way. Carbon frame+Shimano and Fox goods might not be the lightest option but no way 38lbs.
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Going off his MBA bike check. He may be running tubed/tubless set up cant get a race run back not sure how many on WC are still doing this. Alot of the AM guys around here are doing this just in case....
 
slyfink

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,331
5,087
Ottawa, Canada
ianjenn said:
Going off his MBA bike check. He may be running tubed/tubless set up cant get a race run back not sure how many on WC are still doing this. Alot of the AM guys around here are doing this just in case....
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I'm not quite sure what it is that you wrote there. I'm not following you...
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
gemini2k said:
Right, and a fully weighted camelbak probably weighs about ~15-20 pounds? Last time I checked with light v heavy builds on DH bikes were talking about ones of pounds at most.
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1. Extra weight is not to make it realistic just more pronouced so it will be noticeable for the less sensitive part of the freeriding community ;)
2. 20 pounds? Are you riding with your infant child in your backpack? With 3l of water , 2 pumps, some tools etc I rarely go over 12.
 
buildyourown

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Anybody who sayes weight doesn't matter has never done runs on a light bike. I don't need 35#. But the difference between 41# and 39# is pretty awesome.

Reference. New bike is a comfortable 39#, with no carbon or air spings.
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
buildyourown said:
Anybody who sayes weight doesn't matter has never done runs on a light bike. I don't need 35#. But the difference between 41# and 39# is pretty awesome.

Reference. New bike is a comfortable 39#, with no carbon or air spings.
Click to expand...
It is noticeable but I am still a Sport hack on a 38 lbs bike just like I was on my 41 lbs one......
 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
450
Lelandjt said:
When your DH bike gets under 33lb you start doing funny stuff with it, like riding it on trails with no uplift. It's a lot of fun.
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Knock it off








You're making me jealous
 
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gemini2k

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Lelandjt said:
When your DH bike gets under 33lb you start doing funny stuff with it, like riding it on trails with no uplift. It's a lot of fun.
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...because it's too frail to ride on legitimate DH trails? A 33lb bike you ride on uphill trails isn't a DH bike, it's a trail bike.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,652
AK
gemini2k said:
...because it's too frail to ride on legitimate DH trails? A 33lb bike you ride on uphill trails isn't a DH bike, it's a trail bike.
Click to expand...
A 33lb bike is too frail to ride on legitimate DH trails? Better qualify that statement...
 
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gemini2k

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Jm_ said:
A 33lb bike is too frail to ride on legitimate DH trails? Better qualify that statement...
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Not sure what's to qualify. Hand me a 33lb pound, I'll ride it like I ride my 42lb (?? guessing, I don't waste time weighing my DH bike) and we'll see how long it lasts.

Edit: 1 qualification I suppose, assuming the guy riding it isn't some sub 170lb weenie.

Spoiler alert: not long.

Also, just so I'm no talking out of my ass, as much as I do love doing that, what are the parts specs on these 32-33lb bikes? I can't figure out anywhere near a legitimate path to dropping ~10 pounds off my DH bike without drilling holes, Ti bolts, or making serious compromises to performance or reliability.
 
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T

Tomasz

Monkey
Jul 18, 2012
339
0
Whistla
V10.5 L
Deemax Ultimates
DHF wire 2.5 / DHR2 wire 2.4
Whatever XC presta tubes I have lying around (one flat in two yrs)
Formula R0
200/180mm Formula rotors
Boxxer WC
Vivid Air
Thomson DM stem
ProTaper carbon bars
Thomson masterpiece post
Some fancy pants saddle
11-32 cassette, some fancy SRAM thing
Sixc cranks
MRP G3
X0 Der / shifter
Canfield Ultimates

32.2lb

No Ti bolts anywhere, no unreliable parts anywhere, no weak **** anywhere, zero compromises anywhere. I use X0 Trail brakes usually and that's 32lb even. eThrew on the R0s for a potential 200lb rider. X0 Trails are four piston, new for 2013, and are legit DH brakes. Don't confuse them with the crap X0 brakes of years past.

Tubeless would take off another .2lb...
 
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Gary

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,648
5,562
UK
Ah.. not running a chain, chainring, headset, BB, grips or seatclamp? that's devotion
 
T

Tomasz

Monkey
Jul 18, 2012
339
0
Whistla
Gary said:
Ah.. not running a chain, chainring, headset, BB, grips or seatclamp? that's devotion
Click to expand...
Gawd.

You want to know if I keep the caps on my Presta valves too? (Yes.)

32T RF Chainring
Hollow 9spd KMC chain
FSA headset
Shimano Zee BB
ODI Rogue grips w/end caps
Santa Cruz seatclamp that came w/frame

Again, no weird junk parts at all. Everything is solid. No compromises.
 
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BigBoi

BigBoi

Monkey
Oct 31, 2011
310
50
Long Island, NY
Is it safe to assume you guys running 32-33lb DH bikes are lil fellas?

I'm with Gemini on this one. I just don't see it handling the abuse from someone that is a MAN without having to frequently replace parts.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
BigBoi said:
XC tubes and Sixc cranks
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Lol at XC tubes. DH tubes didn't significantly lower th number of punctures for me. As long as I don't ride stupid there is no problem with <200g tubes.

As for SixC - I hear great things about them but even if you go for RF Atlas his bike still isn't heavy. My legend is 35.9 as it is now on a heavy frame and much cheaper build so I see no reason why you doubt lighter bikes? I'm not heavy by any means but I crash like my life depended on it and while I need to swap protective gear often the only times I need to change something with my bike is because of lack of miantanance.
 
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