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650b or 29 w/ 20mm axle?

BigBoi

BigBoi

Monkey
Oct 31, 2011
310
50
Long Island, NY
So I'm about ready to retire my '09 XL Nomad and upgrade. And numerous websites have confirmed my wheels are too small. I'm the size of your average sasquatch so I feel the larger wheels could benefit me.

However, if i go 650b or 29 with my next all mountain (sorry I meant enduro) rig, my only axle option is 15mm. Am I high?

If the axle to crown is longer with 650b or 29, wouldn't I want beefier stanchions and a 20mm axle? I don't want a Fox 34 with a 15 mm axle. I want a Fox 36 with a 20mm axle.
Once I went to 20mm, I vowed to never go back. Is this currently a gap in the industry?
 
iRider

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,093
15 mm axles are plenty stiff says the bike industry. Just believe them, they convinced you with their 29" and 27.5" marketing already.... ;)
 
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captainspauldin

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,263
177
Jersey Shore
BigBoi said:
So I'm about ready to retire my '09 XL Nomad and upgrade. And numerous websites have confirmed my wheels are too small. I'm the size of your average sasquatch so I feel the larger wheels could benefit me.

However, if i go 650b or 29 with my next all mountain (sorry I meant enduro) rig, my only axle option is 15mm. Am I high?

If the axle to crown is longer with 650b or 29, wouldn't I want beefier stanchions and a 20mm axle? I don't want a Fox 34 with a 15 mm axle. I want a Fox 36 with a 20mm axle.
Once I went to 20mm, I vowed to never go back. Is this currently a gap in the industry?
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If you're coming from a straight steerer w/20mm axle to tapered steerer w/15mm axle you'll likely find the tapered/15mm as stiff or stiffer.. I did, went from 20mm pike w/straight steerer to a 15mm revelation w/tapered steerer on the same bike, def felt stiffer with the 15mm/tapered.
 
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,998
9,659
AK
I don't get why people are riding long travel single crowns with ever-longer axle-to-crown due to 27.5 and 29" versions and getting their panties in a bunch about the axle. I'm way WAY more concerned about the steerer, crown, and stanchions, because the fore-aft flex is the most critical part, and many of those features are going to significantly contribute to the torsion as well. What I don't want is my fork to bind because the steerer is too small, stanchions are too small, or crown is not substantial, those could contribute to it flexing during impacts, causing binding, and throwing me off the bike, not to mention just snapping. If the other parts are designed well, 20mm vs 15mm doesn't make a huge difference. Heck, I ran a Jr T with a bolt-on BMX axle and it was stiff as all get-out compared to any single crown, 20mm or not. Yes, 15mm is kind of a needless standard, but it also isn't a big issue IMO either and there are far more critical factors to worry about on the modern forks.
 
mattmatt86

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,347
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
Jm_ said:
Good Stuff
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I tend to agree. I was really anti-15mm as well, I had 20mm on every single one of my bike since 2006 (including a 23lb hardtail xc race bike) and just this year I bought my first bike with a 15mm axle. It's a Fox 29er Talas 34 with 140mm of travel and a tapered steerer and it is far stiffer than the Rock shox 29er Revelation w/ a 20mm axle I had before it. The tapered steerer and 34mm stanchions make a much bigger difference than 20mm.

I think people get more pissed there is another standard more than the insignificant difference in stiffness between 15 and 20. I can't imagine someone bombing down a trail then turning to his buddy to say "That trail was a lot of fun, but I could have taken the KOM if I had 5 more millimeters on my front axle..."
 
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frorider

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Lyrik 275 will use 20 mm thru axle.

I don't know why you're considering 29er; unless you go with a carbon rim , that front wheel will flex enough to negate any 20 mm TA advantage.

I'm 195 lbs, avoid 15 mm TAs as much as possible, but my float 34 is ok for stiffness.
 
mattmatt86

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,347
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
frorider said:
Lyrik 275 will use 20 mm thru axle.

I don't know why you're considering 29er; unless you go with a carbon rim , that front wheel will flex enough to negate any 20 mm TA advantage.

I'm 195 lbs, avoid 15 mm TAs as much as possible, but my float 34 is ok for stiffness.
Click to expand...
I have the E.13 TRS wheels on my 29er and they are stiffer than some 26" wheels I've ridden.
 
BigBoi

BigBoi

Monkey
Oct 31, 2011
310
50
Long Island, NY
Jm_ said:
I don't get why people are riding long travel single crowns with ever-longer axle-to-crown due to 27.5 and 29" versions and getting their panties in a bunch about the axle. I'm way WAY more concerned about the steerer, crown, and stanchions, because the fore-aft flex is the most critical part, and many of those features are going to significantly contribute to the torsion as well. What I don't want is my fork to bind because the steerer is too small, stanchions are too small, or crown is not substantial, those could contribute to it flexing during impacts, causing binding, and throwing me off the bike, not to mention just snapping. If the other parts are designed well, 20mm vs 15mm doesn't make a huge difference. Heck, I ran a Jr T with a bolt-on BMX axle and it was stiff as all get-out compared to any single crown, 20mm or not. Yes, 15mm is kind of a needless standard, but it also isn't a big issue IMO either and there are far more critical factors to worry about on the modern forks.
Click to expand...
My panties are in a bunch because I am a sasquatch and I like my bikes overbuilt as a result. I want thicker stanchions and a burly axel. As a large man who thinks he rides fast at times, I don't want to wondering about my equipment failing. I'm guessing I'm not the only one that feels this way...
 
C

-C-

Monkey
May 27, 2007
296
10
BOS or X-Fusion are pretty much your only choices, unless you want to wedge a 27.5 wheel in a 36, which won't work with all tyres or be too great in the mud.

I'll be interested to see what running changes are being made to the new Lyrik, considering the Pike is outselling it (and outspec'ing it OE) on multiples of 10 to 1. It's a dead man walking now currently.

20mm is pretty much being phased out full stop. For ALL applications :)
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,998
9,659
AK
BigBoi said:
My panties are in a bunch because I am a sasquatch and I like my bikes overbuilt as a result. I want thicker stanchions and a burly axel. As a large man who thinks he rides fast at times, I don't want to wondering about my equipment failing. I'm guessing I'm not the only one that feels this way...
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Then you need a Lyric, or Dorado (works with 650), Fox 36 (doesn't this work for 650? people are using it for 29er after all by shaving the arch), etc. Don't consider a Pike, it's only a 4lb fork. A fox 34 is only a 4.5lb fork. Both of those are likely way too underbuilt for you, not even considering the axle size. What are you complaining about, that they don't make 3lb forks that stand up to sasquatches?

My point is that you wouldn't want any of the 15mm forks anyway, but not because they have 15mm axles.
 
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Lelandjt

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
829
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
OP: Hold off for a couple months. I think a 650b Nomad and 650b 20mm Fox 36 are on the horizon. That is if you still want a bike similar to the Nomad. For heavy trail riding and light DH the Bronson or Mach 6 will make you happy.
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,654
1,129
NORCAL is the hizzle
Jm nailed it. Some people complain too much about 15mm. I get it (somewhat) from a compatibility standpoint, but in terms of performance, there are other things to focus on.

OP, you said you vowed to never go back once you tried 20mm - are you saying you'd never go back to 15mm, or QR?
 
BigBoi

BigBoi

Monkey
Oct 31, 2011
310
50
Long Island, NY
Jm_ said:
Then you need a Lyric, or Dorado (works with 650), Fox 36 (doesn't this work for 650? people are using it for 29er after all by shaving the arch), etc. Don't consider a Pike, it's only a 4lb fork. A fox 34 is only a 4.5lb fork. Both of those are likely way too underbuilt for you, not even considering the axle size. What are you complaining about, that they don't make 3lb forks that stand up to sasquatches?

My point is that you wouldn't want any of the 15mm forks anyway, but not because they have 15mm axles.
Click to expand...
That makes sense.
 
BigBoi

BigBoi

Monkey
Oct 31, 2011
310
50
Long Island, NY
Lelandjt said:
OP: Hold off for a couple months. I think a 650b Nomad and 650b 20mm Fox 36 are on the horizon. That is if you still want a bike similar to the Nomad. For heavy trail riding and light DH the Bronson or Mach 6 will make you happy.
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That is fantastic news! Otherwise, I was considering getting a new Nomad C with small wheels, which isn't the end of the world.
 
BigBoi

BigBoi

Monkey
Oct 31, 2011
310
50
Long Island, NY
OGRipper said:
Jm nailed it. Some people complain too much about 15mm. I get it (somewhat) from a compatibility standpoint, but in terms of performance, there are other things to focus on.

OP, you said you vowed to never go back once you tried 20mm - are you saying you'd never go back to 15mm, or QR?
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I'm saying. I remember my first ride on a 36 Float and saying, Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, this is what a fork is supposed to feel like.

I also remember trying to clear my first table on my RS Mag 20's (circa '93) and my fork squirming like a balloon.
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,654
1,129
NORCAL is the hizzle
BigBoi said:
That's exactly what I'm saying. I remember my first ride on a 36 Float and saying, Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, this is what a fork is supposed to feel like.

I also remember trying to clear my first table on my RS Mag 20's (circa '93) and my fork squirming like a balloon.
Click to expand...
So which is it, you vowed to never go back to QR, or 15mm? If you're talking about QR, I agree, but if you're talking about 15mm, not so much.
 
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BigBoi

BigBoi

Monkey
Oct 31, 2011
310
50
Long Island, NY
OGRipper said:
So which is it, you vowed to never go back to QR, or 15mm? If you're talking about QR, I agree, but if you're talking about 15mm, not so much.
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Never back in that direction (smaller). I've never ridden 15mm and really have no desire to. My 2 forks for the last 4 years have been a Boxxer Team and a Float 36.
 
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