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Cheap Cheap - Airborne Pathogen

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
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in a single wide, cooking meth...
Shizer, that thing is low as fvck (-34 mm drop with a 574 mm A2C) if the website geo is to be believed. Also interesting they used 7000 series alum, although perhaps that is more common for frames than I think.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
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borcester rhymes
Shizer, that thing is low as fvck (-34 mm drop with a 574 mm A2C) if the website geo is to be believed. Also interesting they used 7000 series alum, although perhaps that is more common for frames than I think.
I was kind of under the impression that 6k and 7k were practically interchangeable, quality wise. 6k took a little bit more heat cycling/working, whereas 7k was a little bit more durrable.

I'm guessing the BB drop is incorrect, as I think the nukeproof was like +17.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,508
822
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Nice low price but if I were in the market for a cheap single pivot I'd pay the additional $200 for adjustable geo, less weight, and less pivots in the line of fire from the back tire by getting a Guerilla Gravity. I guess if you're sold on the linkage and look of a Transition or Nukeproof this would be pretty tempting.
 

nmpearson

Monkey
Dec 30, 2006
213
8
i'd easily buy a used tr450...and for next year, the tr500 is just stunning! adj geo so you can have a single crown park bike all the way to a WC bike. Transition sure hit a home run. i'd pay 800ish more for a reputable company and a much better bike
 

El Zilcho

Chimp
Aug 27, 2009
10
0
NSW, Australia
They really need to work on their naming scheme. An airborne pathogen is the 2nd or 3rd last thing I'd want.
Otherwise, it looks pretty cool.
 
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tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
891
15
I love how everybody and their mum dismisses "cheap" and good mtb-gear as a myth. Just think about the blowout of the V10 frames. Where something about 1800$ if I'm correct. Just sell direct and pass the outrageous margins. CRC can sell their scalp-frames for ~1300$ too if they want.

That frame looks plenty stiff and if they didn't **** up on geometry and kinematks I doub it's even half as bad as everyone suggests it to be. Somebody could probably win a world cup on it...

on a more unrelated note my brother just ordered this badboy for just 1000$ more than the airbourne-frame:

 
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atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
7000 series alloys in welded bike frames typically exhibit worse fatigue life and are less expensive to manufacture.
That's entirely dependent on process and heat treatment, and if done right, 7 series is stronger with regards to tensile, shear, fatigue and elongation properties. Also, since there are various 7 series alloys, some proprietary, their individual mechanical characteristics are also different (for instance, 7020 provides slightly better mechanical behavior over 7005 post welding). So, as someone not an armchair type, who's worked with both types of aluminum weldments, in a aerospace and defense application (where these things get LPI'd X-rayed and destructive tested), and studied metallurgy as a tool and die maker, I'll say your statement is a half truth. True because it can exhibit worse fatigue life if the manufacturer doesn't take into account variables like creep, proper filler material, heat input, etc etc, which can cause issues like precipitates that are not coherent with the matrix, causing voids and thus poor fatigue life. But also can be stronger and have a better fatigue life if done right, with the correct weld parameters, precipitation evolution, etc. There are MANY variables when it comes to fatigue life, like how polished the test specimen is (seriously), and the charts for fatigue on aluminum (which is funny, because aluminum, unlike steel follows an exponential wohler curve) state that 7 series can in fact have better fatigue life. Just don't leave it up to most of the bike industry to figure out how ;)

7 series is also more expensive to buy, pound for pound. Where your statement may be correct with regards to price, is the fancy swooping, hydroformed tubes that are popular with designers. They both require heat treatment (although 7 is a lower temp, still requires a jig) but 6 is definitely more expensive there, consumables are about the same.

Just wanted to clear that up, from a guy who probably produced several million worth of aluminum aerospace parts with my own hands.
 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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i'd easily buy a used tr450...and for next year, the tr500 is just stunning! adj geo so you can have a single crown park bike all the way to a WC bike. Transition sure hit a home run. i'd pay 800ish more for a reputable company and a much better bike
see, this is why I'm excited about the airborne. Instead of paying $700 more for a frame that's virtually identical and probably made in the same factory, I can not pay that money, take the cash I saved, and spend it on something valuable, instead of a brand name, regardless of how well a friend of the business owner was treated.

Plenty of frames on par with that have been available for around the same price last I checked. What's the big deal?
name one that retails for less than $2k. Yeah, you can get a two year old v10 for $250 more (I would) or a turner DHR for $300 (I would), but that's the retail price...you know, before you turn your back on your dealers and start selling them from the factory.

I love how everybody and their mum dismisses "cheap" and good mtb-gear as a myth. Just think about the blowout of the V10 frames. Where something about 1800$ if I'm correct. Just sell direct and pass the outrageous margins. CRC can sell their scalp-frames for ~1300$ too if they want.
but they don't want to. They're selling virtually the same frame, cutting out the dealer network, and pocketing that cash/stuffing it in sam hill's trousers. Here's an opportunity to get something similar, but keep that overhead instead of handing it over.
 

schwaaa31

Turbo Monkey
Jul 30, 2002
1,431
1,018
Clinton Massachusetts
but they don't want to. They're selling virtually the same frame, cutting out the dealer network, and pocketing that cash/stuffing it in sam hill's trousers. Here's an opportunity to get something similar, but keep that overhead instead of handing it over.
They did. I got mine for $1300 shipped across the pond.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
name one that retails for less than $2k. Yeah, you can get a two year old v10 for $250 more (I would) or a turner DHR for $300 (I would), but that's the retail price...you know, before you turn your back on your dealers and start selling them from the factory.
Nearly any Asian catalog DH frame....
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,596
5,894
in a single wide, cooking meth...
see, this is why I'm excited about the airborne. Instead of paying $700 more for a frame that's virtually identical and probably made in the same factory, I can not pay that money, take the cash I saved, and spend it on something valuable, instead of a brand name, regardless of how well a friend of the business owner was treated.



name one that retails for less than $2k. Yeah, you can get a two year old v10 for $250 more (I would) or a turner DHR for $300 (I would), but that's the retail price...you know, before you turn your back on your dealers and start selling them from the factory.



but they don't want to. They're selling virtually the same frame, cutting out the dealer network, and pocketing that cash/stuffing it in sam hill's trousers. Here's an opportunity to get something similar, but keep that overhead instead of handing it over.
Based on joeg's comment, it would seem the Tr450 and the SARS are in fact different, despite the obvious visual similarities. I actually looked up several of the more common DH frames and confirmed they were all 6000 series alums. Coincidence? Perhaps, but in my experience I've mainly seen 7000 series alum used in super low end "entry level" hardtails and cranks. I would also add that Airborne hasn't had the best reputation in terms of selling quality frames, as I recall their old Ti frames had cracking issues, and clearly the rebranded IH Kumichos were dogs as well. That's not to say they can't bring a decent frame to market, but their track record doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Plus, Go-Ride has DHRs for $1,850 right now, and personally I'd take that over the SARS all day and twice on Sundays, even if it has "redundant links". My buddy got his V10 (carbon front triangle, alum rear) for $1,800, and that thing is the absolute t!ts IMO.

And in the end, I still think there is some real value to being able to call and talk to someone at a bike company who can potentially take care of an issue, whereas I'm not sure that would be the case with Airborne. Transition seems to have developed a well earned rep for making things right if something sh!ts the bed.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
They really need to work on their naming scheme. An airborne pathogen is the 2nd or 3rd last thing I'd want.
Otherwise, it looks pretty cool.
Could be worse. Imagine buying an Airborne Butsecks! :shocked:

jackalope said:
Plus, Go-Ride has DHRs for $1,850 right now, and personally I'd take that over the SARS all day and twice on Sundays, even if it has "redundant links".
Seriously blows my mind that people don't realize how phenomenal that frame is. I love my DHR, have had it for two + seasons and there's not a single wiggle, issue or flaw with it. It sucks that people are wrapped up in the carbon trend, because the Turner DHRis one of the most incredible rides on the planet.

Just goes to show you that marketing sells bikes, not necessarily performance. :thumb:
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,208
581
Durham, NC
Just wanted to clear that up, from a guy who probably produced several million worth of aluminum aerospace parts with my own hands.
That's all well and good, but how many World Cup/World Championship winning downhill bicycle frames have you produced?
 
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atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
That's all well and good, but how many World Cup/World Championship winning downhill bicycle frames have you produced?
:rofl:

One industry has the most stringent QC of any industry in the world, and the other has practically zero qc in comparison.

How many F22's did those frame builders help get in the air? How many of those got GE F35 jackets as a gift for their work on a program? :P

I'm just saying there's variables to consider when making claims about fatigue life, as it's one of the most manipulatable factors with regards to aluminum (because you can alter it with different heat treatments, surface finish, etc). Material discussions interest me. I would love to work with SC.
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,559
24,182
media blackout
Indeed.

Bear in mind, those F35s have been flying for years now. Just, not actually being sold. There were also two engine variants to begin with, one RR/GE alternate being scrapped.
"flying" in this situation is loosely defined; last i was aware all of them were grounded due to significant design flaws.
 

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
"flying" in this situation is loosely defined; last i was aware all of them were grounded due to significant design flaws.
Back in the air again. cracked blade component in one engine caused it this time around, resumed flight in march.

Edit: Don't get me started on the program itself. Or the 'media' reports. Or the acquisition process.
 
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tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
891
15
but they don't want to. They're selling virtually the same frame, cutting out the dealer network, and pocketing that cash/stuffing it in sam hill's trousers. Here's an opportunity to get something similar, but keep that overhead instead of handing it over.
My point is just that it's laugheable when people who used to spend retail on overpriced boutique-stuff get their panties wet if something like that airbourne-frame gets sold for a fraction. Always the same arguments: "hurr the aluminium/carbon/components/weldquality must be inferior"
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,559
24,182
media blackout
Back in the air again. cracked blade component in one engine caused it this time around, resumed flight in march.

Edit: Don't get me started on the program itself. Or the 'media' reports. Or the acquisition process.
my point is that it sounds like bike designers have moved on to designing aircraft ;)
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,596
5,894
in a single wide, cooking meth...
My point is just that it's laugheable when people who used to spend retail on overpriced boutique-stuff get their panties wet if something like that airbourne-frame gets sold for a fraction. Always the same arguments: "hurr the aluminium/carbon/components/weldquality must be inferior"
Totally agree...I think all frames should cost the same since they're all the same. Some just look a little different, but in the end, there is no real difference.

To wit -

DHR / SARS

Weight: ~10 lbs / ~11.5 lbs
Kinematics: DW / I think you meant kinesiology?
Cost: $1,850 (at Go-Ride) / $1,600 (which I guess is a "fraction" of $1,850?)
CS: Very good / fingers crossed
Name: Boring / Awesome!!!
 
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tabletop84

Monkey
Nov 12, 2011
891
15
Totally agree...I think all frames should cost the same since they're all the same. Some just look a little different, but in the end, there is no real difference.
no that's communist! But last time I checked I couldn't see much difference between my cheap aluminium frame and others.

Btw. nicolai uses 7005 aluminium and they surely know more about welding aluminium frames than transition or any other company..
 
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atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
They are certainly good at welding (7005 and 7020 combo), and have a good understanding of the processes required to achieve their goals. If you saw the abuse we put a bmxtb though, for over 10 years now, you'd be impressed.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,596
5,894
in a single wide, cooking meth...
no that's communist! But last time I checked I couldn't see much difference between my cheap aluminium frame and others.

Btw. nicolai uses 7005 aluminium and they surely know more about welding aluminium frames than transition or any other company..
Well I think you just proved my point. Like you, I may not be able to "see" the difference between a cheap alum frame and a high-end model, but I bet you there is in terms of ride quality and durability. As for Nicolai, so assuming they're the Prussian TIG gods of 7000 series welding, they're not making the SARS - somebody else is with *far* less experience and concern about workmanship.

All that said, the SARS may be a fine bike for most riders and perform/last as well as a Tr450 or whatever. But personally I'd rather let someone else find that out, especially when I can find DHRs and blow out V10s for almost the same $$$.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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Cost: $1,850 (at Go-Ride)
Do keep in mind that the DHR was $3200 at launch. Do the same math, and the airborne would be $925. Not to mention go-ride don't got no sizes unless you're really tiny.

And to crabjoe:
how many asian catalog frames do you need to buy in order to get one? I've never seen anybody selling a single unit at a time. Not to mention that you get warranty support from airborne (people with cracked yumichoos got replacement frames), vs. trying to get "wendy" on the phone in Nanjing.

Keep trying to convince yourselves that the transition is magically worth more though, the bike industry needs you!
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
Do keep in mind that the DHR was $3200 at launch. Do the same math, and the airborne would be $925. Not to mention go-ride don't got no sizes unless you're really tiny.
"Would be" != "is"

And to crabjoe:
how many asian catalog frames do you need to buy in order to get one? I've never seen anybody selling a single unit at a time. Not to mention that you get warranty support from airborne (people with cracked yumichoos got replacement frames), vs. trying to get "wendy" on the phone in Nanjing.
Uhhhh....1? Azonic is the first one that comes to mind. Plenty of decent quality, low-price, CS-backed frame options out there that are catalog frames with some recognizable decals on them. I haven't paid attention to bike gear/brands in at least 3-4 years, but last I checked there was plenty.
 
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jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,596
5,894
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Do keep in mind that the DHR was $3200 at launch. Do the same math, and the airborne would be $925. Not to mention go-ride don't got no sizes unless you're really tiny.

And to crabjoe:
how many asian catalog frames do you need to buy in order to get one? I've never seen anybody selling a single unit at a time. Not to mention that you get warranty support from airborne (people with cracked yumichoos got replacement frames), vs. trying to get "wendy" on the phone in Nanjing.

Keep trying to convince yourselves that the transition is magically worth more though, the bike industry needs you!
FWIW, I've seen all DHR sizes available at Go-Ride in the past. The main "downside" seemed to be colorway and perhaps shock model. But regardless, you exactly right: Kumicho > Tr450

IH needed more of those people!
 
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