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A "Which trail bike thread" with opinions from the DH crowd: Banshee, Yeti, Kona

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
Hey gents,

I recently finished building a Chromag Samurai hardtail (from a used frame) and after having ridden it for a while, I am starting to find that I prefer the snappiness of the Chromag to the muted feel of my Santa Cruz Nomad Carbon. The Nomad has been in my stable for going on 4 years now and though it has treated me very well, my riding style is shifting and being out of college and having a job has given me opportunities to own potentially own more than just one "do-it-all" bike.

I will never be able to stray from Whistler for too long, so I'm starting to think that I may buy a trail bike now and then save for a DH/park bike with a purchase date sometime in the middle of next season. When I say trail bike, I'm specifically looking at long/low/fun bikes that blur the lines between particular categories - the Kona Process 134/153, Yeti SB66 and Banshee Spitfire are all very appealing. I'm looking for something that will be snappy and responsive, at least more so than my Nomad, while still be burly enough to handle some of the lines that I used to ride my Nomad on. I don't expect this bike to bang out laps on Top of the World like I used to on my Nomad, but a couple of rips down Dirt Merchant or even Blue Velvet shouldn't leave me checking for frame cracks and such.

I also want something that will be raceable as I plan to start training for and competing in the NW Enduro series next year. I am a downhill rider at heart but just so happen to have the legs and lungs to pedal pretty well, so that's why I'm taking this discussion to the DH forum. What have you guys ridden and what do you own as your "little bike", and what do you think makes the bike awesome? Experienced impressions of the Kona, Yeti and Banshee that I mentioned are very helpful.

Cheers
 
how tall are you? any interest in 650b or (gasp! 29r)?

the santacruz line up is tasty. the 5010 is good if you are looking for XC efficiency but with relaxed geo for the downs. the bronson is gonna be for you if you want alittle more plowability in the downhills, at the expense of climbing speed. the santa cruz carbon layup is pretty solid and i would have no qualms about their durability. also available in a more wallet friendly aluminum version.

the intense equivalents are also solid. the tracer 275 is a good value (moreso if you can score one on sale). YMMV if you care about intense customer service (i guess)

the pivot mach6 (27.5) or 5.7 (if staying 26") and ibis mojo hdr are another excellent alternative imho, albeit pricey. i don't have much saddle time, but the DW Link works well as advertised. i prob would have gone with the Mach6 or HDR if it was available at the time I ordered the Bronson.

and from what i've read the SB series (66,75,95) are all pretty well received. seems like early on eccentric issues/squeaking are resolved. a couple monkeys have SBs so i will let them chime in.

the konas looks to be great value, and durable (i would think). again, no time on them. but i'm just not a fan of them yoke interfaces for driving the rear shock.

i also would look into the 27.5 full suspension offerings from Giant. again, some excellent performance bang for the buck there as well.
 
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ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
I'm 6'1, and while I would consider 650b (especially on a rig with less travel than my Nomad), I have ridden 29ers and have never been able to get along with the slow turning.

I do love Santa Cruz, but I will say that I have never been fully satisfied with the geometry of my Nomad. the seat tube length is perfect, but the top tube is too short. I have always gotten along better with bikes favoring a short back end and long front (like the SB, Kona, etc), so that's why I have gravitated towards those bikes a bit more.

My dad rides an Intense Tracer 26" back home, and while it's an awesome bike, the rear suspension makes the bike feel very muted over rough terrain - not really "poppy" at all. While I'm sure it's something that could be tuned to feel more lively, I don't want to buy a bike and immediately feel the need to get the rear shock tuned.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,001
1,693
Northern California
I'm 6'1, and while I would consider 650b (especially on a rig with less travel than my Nomad), I have ridden 29ers and have never been able to get along with the slow turning.

I do love Santa Cruz, but I will say that I have never been fully satisfied with the geometry of my Nomad. the seat tube length is perfect, but the top tube is too short. I have always gotten along better with bikes favoring a short back end and long front (like the SB, Kona, etc), so that's why I have gravitated towards those bikes a bit more.

My dad rides an Intense Tracer 26" back home, and while it's an awesome bike, the rear suspension makes the bike feel very muted over rough terrain - not really "poppy" at all. While I'm sure it's something that could be tuned to feel more lively, I don't want to buy a bike and immediately feel the need to get the rear shock tuned.
I have the same issue with the Nomad, however the Bronson has longer reach and TT length, I think it's worth a look. I'd also consider the Turner Burner which looks like it would meet your geo requirements.
 

kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
Pretty sure a Yeti SB-66 or 75 is my next trail bike.

On a side note, don't the Chromags kick a$$? I have a Stylus and it freaking rocks. I've punished the thing for the last couple years and haven't heard a peep from it.
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
I know people always recommend the bike that they own, but you really should test ride a 66 if you can. For what you are describing, it sounds perfect.
 
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ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
On a side note, don't the Chromags kick a$$? I have a Stylus and it freaking rocks. I've punished the thing for the last couple years and haven't heard a peep from it.
Yes. Yes they do. I had some buyers remorse at the outset because I hadn't started work and was tight on cash, but I made it work and it has been a total game changer. I've never ridden a hardtail that is so comfortable on everything that I throw at it. I end up just laughing my a$$ off every time I ride it.

Back to the topic at hand, I'm going to try to ride the SB66. I'm doing a geo comparison on a few bikes and so far I think the Banshee Spitfire, SB66 and Rocky Mountain Altitude Rally Edition are tops - any specific ride experiences on those?
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,376
804
I know people always recommend the bike that they on, but you really should test ride a 66 if you can. For what you are describing, it sounds perfect.
I agree this is usually quite annoying, but to be fair, the OP specifically asks what people are riding and what makes it awesome.

I own a Mach5.7c and it is indeed a very capable bike for a wide range of application. Climbs very well, light, lively suspension feeling, super stiff, reasonably slack HA (67deg), gorgeous frame, etc. I believe it would fit the bill nicely for what you are looking for. I hear the Mach6 (27.5) retains most of the Mach5.7 riding traits, but has bigger wheels, a slacker HA and is slightly burlier.

Only complaint about the Mach5.7: No ISCG tabs...but the Mach6 has them.
 

cowman

Monkey
Oct 17, 2004
227
2
Seattle, WA
Hey gents,

I recently finished building a Chromag Samurai hardtail (from a used frame) and after having ridden it for a while, I am starting to find that I prefer the snappiness of the Chromag to the muted feel of my Santa Cruz Nomad Carbon. The Nomad has been in my stable for going on 4 years now and though it has treated me very well, my riding style is shifting and being out of college and having a job has given me opportunities to own potentially own more than just one "do-it-all" bike.

I will never be able to stray from Whistler for too long, so I'm starting to think that I may buy a trail bike now and then save for a DH/park bike with a purchase date sometime in the middle of next season. When I say trail bike, I'm specifically looking at long/low/fun bikes that blur the lines between particular categories - the Kona Process 134/153, Yeti SB66 and Banshee Spitfire are all very appealing. I'm looking for something that will be snappy and responsive, at least more so than my Nomad, while still be burly enough to handle some of the lines that I used to ride my Nomad on. I don't expect this bike to bang out laps on Top of the World like I used to on my Nomad, but a couple of rips down Dirt Merchant or even Blue Velvet shouldn't leave me checking for frame cracks and such.

I also want something that will be raceable as I plan to start training for and competing in the NW Enduro series next year. I am a downhill rider at heart but just so happen to have the legs and lungs to pedal pretty well, so that's why I'm taking this discussion to the DH forum. What have you guys ridden and what do you own as your "little bike", and what do you think makes the bike awesome? Experienced impressions of the Kona, Yeti and Banshee that I mentioned are very helpful.

Cheers
Sounds like you and I are in very similar situations and prefer a similar bike setup. I have a Pivot Mach 6 on the way - take one for a test ride, you will not be disappointed. The DW suspension is incredible.
 
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muddyfox

Monkey
Feb 13, 2002
167
0
North Vancouver, B.C.
I'm on a Rocky Altitude 790 and it's soooo much fun to ride, has yet to let me down, even with the Fox 34 fork everyone hates. Flys uphill, & humps up & over big rocks, stumps etc that I'd get hung up on with my Slayer. Super playful on the down, plow, manual, jump, does what you tell it to do. Also been on the Spitfire in a 26" version, really really liked it, was a little heavier. If i was going to do one bike for all I may have leaned towards it (or the Rune). If you can demo them do it, although I really don't think you can go wrong on either. Cheers d.
 

wydopen

Turbo Monkey
Jan 16, 2005
1,229
60
805
no complaints with my talas 36 equipped giant reign..gets me to the top and rips the dh..
its gotta have the travel adjust on the fork though..

 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,192
19,158
Canaderp
Riding a medium Banshee Spitfire V2 here, with myself being about 5'8. Great frame. Previously rode the V1. This thing is a great performer all around. It loves flowing trails and it can climb pretty well too. I have it setup in beast mode with a Fox 36 Van on it. I rode it at Bromont this summer, which was a handful but it took everything that I tossed at it...though the fork did blow up.

Pros:
-Adjustable geometry with replaceable dropouts (can convert between wheel sizes too)
-Decent climbing, excellent downhill performance
-Looks cool
-Not flexy

Cons:
-Heavier
-No carbon?
-No internal cable routing?

I can't really compare it to any of your other choices though. The only other bikes in this category that I've tried out is a Transition Covert and a Blur Lt. The covert definitely did not pedal as well and the Blur felt similar.


This is in the middle geometry setting. I sold my downhill bike two years ago to help fund college, so this is my only bike for everything from XC to DH. Works okay except for the weight.
 
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kazlx

Patches O'Houlihan
Aug 7, 2006
6,985
1,957
Tustin, CA
I really like the spitfire, but the one thing is I can't get over the weight on carbon bikes. You can have the muscle of a longer travel trail bike with the weight closer to an XC bike. The SB-66c is so rad. I rode a Knolly DT for a long time as my only bike, and while it was fun to ride, climbing got old. The 66c is number one on my list, with the 75 or 75c a close second (maybe tie for first). I'd want to ride them back to back to decide. I have a DH bike, so that might sway me to the 75, otherwise, I think 100% I would go for the 66 or 66c if you can swing it.
 

OBB

Monkey
Sep 25, 2008
157
3
It's been said already, but another look should be taken at the Rocky Mtn Altitude.


The above picture is the more aggressive model with part choices that reflect gravity riding.

Weight for the frame, shock, hardware = 2450g or 5.4lbs.

The high end 799 is 26lbs before you tack on a set of pedals.


I'm not sure about you, but having a water bottle mount inside the frame is a must for me. I use my compression lever all the time, so the shock placement is also a plus if you opt for a build that doesn't use a remote. Numbers and features are all good but we all know the ride is what counts. Try one and with a proper setup and find out for yourself.
 
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weedkilla

Monkey
Jul 6, 2008
362
10
I know several people selling nice bikes after riding a 650b giant trance or trance x. I'm refusing to try one, but perhaps you should.
 

nmpearson

Monkey
Dec 30, 2006
213
8
I spent the last few weeks on a 2013 altitude 790 with full xx1 and a pike on it...amazingly fun bike! it just pedals so well. Goes up super fast and going down it's pretty fast! not like dh/freeride fast, but i have so much fun on it. I just wish i could have 2 bikes...that being said

I bought an evil uprising bc it pedals pretty well...and descends just amazing! it's no nimble and i haven't had so much fun on a bike in a while. I spent one run on a friends uprising, ordered the frame on monday, and sold my altitude today. uprising is now sitting in my room. I know it doesn't pedal quite as well, but that's up to me to get in better shape. i think for me loving pedaling and just getting anywhere in the wilderness, the uprising is just better for me.
 

banrider

Monkey
Nov 24, 2004
304
12
If you can try SC TrC I think you won't be disappointed....longer TT and more updated geo than the Nomad, pedals pretty well...I have one Trc with Easton Carbon wheels and it's so snappy and responsible that it's one if the most playful bikes I've ever owned...
 
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boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,839
6,145
Yakistan
I built up a Stylus last spring, first w/ 160mm and then w/ 140mm but could never get over the slack steering. I wanted it to be similar to my SS HT that I've been thrashing for years which steers like a sports car. The Stylus steered like a school bus, IMO. Just finished hawking it off to build up a trail bike for next season. I looked hard at the Giant Trance, new Heckler, the Covert and Bandit, and the Blur TR. If I had the pockets for it, the Knolly Endorphin, Ghost Riot AMR, Banshee Spitfire, and sb-66 also looked good.

I ended up going the route of the Blur TR. Carbon weight looked great but couldn't pass on the pricing for the Aluminum. I figure its going to weigh the same as the Stylus - around 30lbs - and there is nothing wrong with that! A 26lb squishy trail bike would be nice if I could afford it. So glad I went with the Blur rather than a single pivot.

I have several buddies who have already ordered the new Trance after demoing one. Before their rides were over they had made up their minds and starting hawing off their quivers within days. Between the 650b and press-fit BB I am not interested even if everyone says its the sh*t
 
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ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
The Blur TrC may be a bit too "trail" for my requirements...125mm of travel and a 68* head angle put it distinctly more on the XC side of the spectrum. It looks like a fun rig, but a bit too much of a departure from what I'm used to.

The Evil Uprising, however, is rather intriguing. I'm in contact with Kevin at Evil right now and it sounds like an outstanding bike. Anyone have specific experience on that bike relative to some of the others I have mentioned?
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
I have the same issue with the Nomad, however the Bronson has longer reach and TT length, I think it's worth a look. I'd also consider the Turner Burner which looks like it would meet your geo requirements.
Almost got the Burner but glad I went Bronson C. Size Lg was noticeably longer than my Lg Nomad. I think the reach is 0.5 inches longer and the WB is 0.9 inches longer...as I recall. It is hard to imagine buying another alu frame after spending this much time on a carbon. stiffness:weight ratio is crazy.

Not a fan of the mojo HDR for 275...not enough clearance for big rear rubber. But for a more XC build, it would be fine.
 

ZHendo

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,661
147
PNW
I love the Troy, but unfortunately I don't think I stand a chance of getting a BroDeal on one...
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Almost got the Burner but glad I went Bronson C. Size Lg was noticeably longer than my Lg Nomad. I think the reach is 0.5 inches longer and the WB is 0.9 inches longer...as I recall. It is hard to imagine buying another alu frame after spending this much time on a carbon. stiffness:weight ratio is crazy.

Not a fan of the mojo HDR for 275...not enough clearance for big rear rubber. But for a more XC build, it would be fine.
The burner has really long stays. 17.6" is 29er territory, and if you're forced to drag that tractor trailer around, you may as well throw in big wheels too.
 

nmpearson

Monkey
Dec 30, 2006
213
8
The Evil Uprising, however, is rather intriguing. I'm in contact with Kevin at Evil right now and it sounds like an outstanding bike. Anyone have specific experience on that bike relative to some of the others I have mentioned?
Like I mentioned above...I took one ride on an uprising and was just blown away by it's ability. It pedaled all the way to the top of a trail that I don't usually have the greatest luck pedaling up without stopping. Down was where I really had fun. It just cruised and I felt like I was on a nimble dh bike. It took lines I couldn't take on some other bikes i've been riding this year, mostly 650b bikes. It jumps really well, and is just super fun. The frame is beautiful. I'm building mine that i got in the other day with a full x01 group, vengeance fork, e13 trs to spank subrosa wheels, and the rest deity. It should pedal really well and will be decently light. I say try it out if you have the means. You won't be sorry
 

joeg

I have some obvious biases
Jul 20, 2011
198
137
Santa Cruz CA
Almost got the Burner but glad I went Bronson C. Size Lg was noticeably longer than my Lg Nomad. I think the reach is 0.5 inches longer and the WB is 0.9 inches longer...as I recall.
Bronson reach is 23mm longer than the Nomad (size large), with 18mm longer wheelbase - same HT angle. BB 10mm lower.

Numbers listed with 150mm and 160mm forks respectively.
 

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,400
47
Vancouver, BC
Cavalerie/Effigear 160mm bike when released.
Nicolai/Pinion Helius.
GT whatever the new things called.
That's my top 3 bikes I'm wanting to try.
I demo'd a 2014 force carbon pro a couple of weeks ago. I liked the ride of the bike but I hated pretty much every component of the build. E13 hubs are loud as hell, formula brakes have some funky lever ergonomics & constantly squeal & warble, & the large carbon tubes amplify any sounds the bike makes. It is a LOUD bike. With a different build, I think it'd be pretty sweet though.
 

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,224
2,537
The old world
3 days this long weekend on a demo trance advanced sx, it's really good
I might pull the trigger on a regular SX soon, could you elaborate a little on your experience, e.g. what kind of terrain were you riding and how it stacks up against comparable bikes?
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,224
11
MTL
I see your point with the TRC ZHendo. It's a smaller bike, that's for sure, but the geo is so right you can get pretty rowdy on one. The 68 head angle is more of a concern on paper than when you actually ride it IMHO.

I went from a V2 Spitfire to a TRC and couldn't be happier. Of course I ride the East Coast and no real gnar 1hour+ descents.

If I was out West, I'd would have kept the Spitty. It really is an excellent bike, solid and playful, but it adds up to be pretty hefty. Mine was around 32 pounds. With about the same build, the TRC ends being around 27,5, 28. Much better for what is available out here and more fun on long XCish rides.

I think you should check out a Bronson, if you like how VPP bikes ride and sit in their travel (AKA pretty low)

 

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frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
Actually the Bronson suspension design feels different than all long-travel VPP SC's I've owned or ridden (Nomad, vp free, V10 in both settings). I'm not the only one who felt that the Bronson designers appeared to be targeting the suspension feel of the DW Mojo HD. The Bronson does not sit low in the travel like you would expect. Also, as with the DW, it doesn't need much compression damping. Feels very different than the Nomad.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
Actually the Bronson suspension design feels different than all long-travel VPP SC's I've owned or ridden (Nomad, vp free, V10 in both settings). I'm not the only one who felt that the Bronson designers appeared to be targeting the suspension feel of the DW Mojo HD. The Bronson does not sit low in the travel like you would expect. Also, as with the DW, it doesn't need much compression damping. Feels very different than the Nomad.
Agreed, the suspsenion feel on the bronson is different than the nomad, a firmer feel under pedalling too. I was looking for a better climber than my 2010 enduro, and I found it.
 

supercow

Monkey
Feb 18, 2009
969
128
Anyone have opinions on the Commencal Meta AM 650b?
Remy has done well on it this year ;)

Good bike, but much like the Spitfire...she's a heafty old beast. Near 8lbs with shock.

I'm hoping to build my Spitfire closer to the low 30lbs mark - watch this space.
 

FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,659
492
Sea to Sky BC
I might pull the trigger on a regular SX soon, could you elaborate a little on your experience, e.g. what kind of terrain were you riding and how it stacks up against comparable bikes?
apologies for the delayed response, hectic week....I rode it on Seymour on the shore saturday, shuttle assist 20km ride, techy loam trails and old rough classics, new school flow, etc...Sunday I rode it in Pemberton, fast flowy trail and one old school steep and chundery....Monday in Squamish on a big ride on a variety of trails, steep rock slabs and some stunts on one, then just really good tech singletrack on some others. I've spent two years on a Reign, and spent 3-4 months this summer on an Altitude MSL.

The Trance SX is the real deal, improves on the reign in a number of ways, not sure how much of it is because of the new Float X shock, but it doesn't feel like it sags into the travel as much as the reign, a bit more firmness while climbing and the bike really accelerates quickly when you get on the pedals with minimal bob, also much more progressive feel towards the bottom of the stroke on big hits. As much as I like my reign, it does blow through the travel on most mid-big hits, the sx takes a really big hit before it feels like you've bottomed it out. Very responsive, it's quick handling, and it feels really stiff when stuffing it into corners and berms really hard. Feels a lot more poppy off little jumps and whatnot too, really enjoying it so far, hoping to get it out a few more times before winter really sets in and I have to give it back. I don't have many bikes on my potential 'new bike' list, but this one is definitely on it at this point, as would be the altitude.
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
I demo'd a 2014 force carbon pro a couple of weeks ago. I liked the ride of the bike but I hated pretty much every component of the build. E13 hubs are loud as hell, formula brakes have some funky lever ergonomics & constantly squeal & warble, & the large carbon tubes amplify any sounds the bike makes. It is a LOUD bike. With a different build, I think it'd be pretty sweet though.
Thanks for the feedback. I'd do a full custom build if I got one(which I'm not, I'm getting the Cavalerie and Nicolai ;-) ). GT looks great though. Depending what your ideals are, it looks to tick a lot of boxes.
How was the foot movement when hitting stuff? Notice any? Bike feel plush or hardtail like? Pedal well?